Josh Hader's Tweets

[Mike Sixel]

Indeed. It doesn't appear that there are any limits to what will trigger the wrath of the outrage mob.

 

And if you refuse to grab your pitchfork and join, they view you as defending and supporting the nonsense that the target tweeted 10 years ago.

 

If we want people to abandon hateful prejudices and stop staying offensive things, we should let them move on with their lives after they've apologized and done so. I don't see what's to be gained by continuing to beat them up over decades-old transgressions. Branding them for life is counterproductive. Especially when we're talking about what someone did as a kid.

 

And can't the mob prioritize at all? There are people currently in power making statements and implementing policies that are disgustingly offensive every day. But sure, let's focus on what a relief pitcher tweeted to his few dozen followers 8 years ago when he was in high school.

I agree with everything but the last part. That rings of whataboutism to me.

[TheLeviathan]

Shaming, hypocrisy, self righteousness, stifling of opinion, demagoguery....these used to be the bastions of organized religions.

 

Guess they have some competition now.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Has anyone here actually read Gunn's tweets?

 

I think "weren't particularly funny" misses the mark by juuuust a little

[TheLeviathan]

Has anyone here actually read Gunn's tweets?

I think "weren't particularly funny" misses the mark by juuuust a little

The line between passion and zealotry is thin and we have left it far behind in social media mobbing. So pretending the severity of offense matters is pretty silly.

 

Describe his comments any way you want, but some Breitbart troll destroying his career over it is stupid. And a troubling sign.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Describe his comments any way you want

no thanks

 

Hey, I generally agree with you on this, but let's also take it case by case. This Gunn guy seems pretty sick (if the stories I read are accurate) and maybe it's time for him to leave this line of work anyway, and go get himself well.

[TheLeviathan]

no thanks

Hey, I generally agree with you on this, but let's also take it case by case. This Gunn guy seems pretty sick (if the stories I read are accurate) and maybe it's time for him to leave this line of work anyway, and go get himself well.

My understanding was the tweets are 10 years old. And part of an edgy comedy run he had.

 

Is there more to this? I just read Ted Cruz wants to prosecute him. Seems like the next logical step. First mobs then faux trials.

[jimmer]

Ted Cruz is a nut. Prosecute him for what? Words? He going to prosecute Trump for some of the nasty words HE has said?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ted Cruz is a nut. Prosecute him for what? Words? He going to prosecute Trump for some of the nasty words HE has said?

 

In our history, we've seen trials for far less.

 

But yes, Ted Cruz is a walking turd sandwich.

[GCTF]

I'm glad all the crass **** I posted at BYTO is gone forever. fingers crossed.

[Squirrel]

 

I'm glad all the crass **** I posted at BYTO is gone forever. fingers crossed.

It was on the internet. Someone somewhere has a record of it ...

[ashbury]

Ted Cruz is a nut. Prosecute him for what? Words?

I think he wants to play it that the guy admitted to a crime.

 

I'm not sure what prosecutors do when someone confesses to a felony but no one presses charges and there's no corroborating evidence except the confession. I guess they have the latitude. But then when the person recants, saying, "I was making a joke, stupid," they've got nothing.

 

I suppose in some nightmare scenario, a DA in a corrupt system goes out and finds someone to press false charges at that point.

 

I hope that Cruz doesn't think he'd be doing God's work by participating in a horrifying scheme like that last scenario. But his eagerness to play this news for political gain indicates that he's willing to take that first step toward hell on earth.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It was on the internet. Someone somewhere has a record of it …

 

I believe that this would be Brock... and Dave. Your words are in Dave's hands.

[Mike Sixel]

Hader said bad things, but apologized

Hader should be allowed to play MLB, with no punishment

No one should give a standing ovation to someone in this instance. Forgive? Sure. But applaud? I don't get it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Has anyone here actually read Gunn's tweets?

I think "weren't particularly funny" misses the mark by juuuust a little

This misses the mark for a variety of reasons.

 

1. Gunn talked about how he used to be versus how he is today a multitude of times long before any of this crap played out. He was a different person, a guy who liked to rile up people with outrageous statements. After all, this is a man who came from the Troma world and outlandishness is pretty much the bread and butter of that genre.

 

2. He said, did, and later stopped saying all those things before Disney hired him.

 

3. Disney hired him anyway, knowing full well where he came from and who he used to be.

 

4. The environment in which Gunn said those things is a different environment than today. It should not be lost on us that as the world became more toxic, Gunn took a different route and decided that those kinds of comments were no longer outlandish and shocking, they were all too real and needed to end.

 

This is an act of pure cowardice from Disney. They took a guy with a checkered past and let him make them literally billions of dollars. Then they ran away scared the moment anyone pointed out that he used to be a dick, even though Gunn is the first person who admits he used to be a dick and made changes to stop being a dick. He has talked about it often.

 

So do we forgive focused, intentional change or not? If we don't, what's the ****ing point of any of this?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Hader said bad things, but apologized

Hader should be allowed to play MLB, with no punishment

No one should give a standing ovation to someone in this instance. Forgive? Sure. But applaud? I don't get it.

I get the "Support out guy," aspect of it. Milwaukee is largely ignored in terms of national media. They're having a good season, and the only real attention they've received is for this mess. When you add up the deliberate timing of the twitter dump, the age of the tweets, ect. I can see how Brewer fans might get a bit defensive. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I get the "Support out guy," aspect of it. Milwaukee is largely ignored in terms of national media. They're having a good season, and the only real attention they've received is for this mess. When you add up the deliberate timing of the twitter dump, the age of the tweets, ect. I can see how Brewer fans might get a bit defensive. 

 

I can, and cannot....fans are remarkably, well, I probably shouldn't type what I think of fans in general.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I can, and cannot....fans are remarkably, well, I probably shouldn't type what I think of fans in general.

I'm not saying it's necessarily the best look, but just like the tweets, I think the ovation is being portrayed in the worst possible light. 

[notoriousgod71]

Well, Sean Newcomb's screwed as he posted anti-gay slurs in 2011 and 2012.

[notoriousgod71]

And now Trea Turner being "investigated" for his offensive 2011 tweets.

 

WHO CARES?

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

And now Trea Turner being "investigated" for his offensive 2011 tweets.

 

WHO CARES?

 

You're supposed to.  Get with the times man!

 

Social media and calling out bad behavior in general has become really, really toxic to the basic concept of society/civility.  I don't think it can be over-stated how negative this trend is.

[PseudoSABR]

Though a bit too much like snowflake-enforcement, these recent 'investigations' will act as deterrence to future players and young men generally (and their parents).  I think we should forgive these guys.  But also: don't be a an asshat (or don't let your kid become one). 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Though a bit too much like snowflake-enforcement, these recent 'investigations' will act as deterrence to future players and young men generally (and their parents).  I think we should forgive these guys.  But also: don't be a an asshat (or don't let your kid become one). 

Or they'll just further reinforce an already out of control trend. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Though a bit too much like snowflake-enforcement, these recent 'investigations' will act as deterrence to future players and young men generally (and their parents).  I think we should forgive these guys.  But also: don't be a an asshat (or don't let your kid become one). 

 

You're more optimistic than I.  I'm not sure it will really have that outcome and even if it does change some...is it outweighed by the push-back that results?

 

I don't know, I want to agree with you, I just don't have that much faith in humanity I guess.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Or they'll just further reinforce an already out of control trend. 

Of tweeting racist, sexist things? Or of investigating racist, sexist tweets?   

[PseudoSABR]

 

You're more optimistic than I.  I'm not sure it will really have that outcome and even if it does change some...is it outweighed by the push-back that results?

 

I don't know, I want to agree with you, I just don't have that much faith in humanity I guess.

I don't necessarily have much faith in humanity.  I just think people who want to make money through their brand (or the potential of such) will get hip to where their liabilities lie.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't necessarily have much faith in humanity.  I just think people who want to make money through their brand (or the potential of such) will get hip to where their liabilities lie.  

 

I think you'll just see a lot more locked private accounts as opposed to real change.  But, again, I'm well aware of my pessimism.  

 

I do think there are two separate but related problems here.  The behavior itself is stupid and in need of improvement.  I also think the reactions are not helpful either, at least in terms of the approach and the demands that accompany them.

 

Racism and insensitivity are terrible and we should work to eradicate them.  Social mobbing may not be as far behind as we thought.  Especially if the worst of the right have also embraced it.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Of tweeting racist, sexist things? Or of investigating racist, sexist tweets?   

Of having the most extreme reaction possible. 

 

We're talking about tweets that these guys made when they were in high school. You'd think at some point the outrage mob would realize how ridiculous this whole "investigation," is, but that's asking for reason where there isn't any.   

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think you'll just see a lot more locked private accounts as opposed to real change.  But, again, I'm well aware of my pessimism.  

 

I do think there are two separate but related problems here.  The behavior itself is stupid and in need of improvement.  I also think the reactions are not helpful either, at least in terms of the approach and the demands that accompany them.

 

Racism and insensitivity are terrible and we should work to eradicate them.  Social mobbing may not be as far behind as we thought.  Especially if the worst of the right have also embraced it.

I see the mob mentality simply as system of cultural shift, it snow balls because, well, tweeting racist things is clearly wrong and easy to get on-board.  I don't think it's in any way permanent, like racism, and sexism has been.  

 

(Not saying, that you Levi are grouped within the following, but I feel it needs to be said):

 

Generally, that these guys are treated as victims is the ultimate state of snowflakeness.  Give me a break.  Their contrition should be tested; it will be painful, but not every teenagers was making tweets like these.  There are levels of culpability, but the systemic culture that lead to such tweets needs to snuffed out.  

 

If there's a period of zero-tolerance for this kind of talk, tough-****.  If it's prolonged over decades (like actual racism, and sexism), then let's talk.

[TheLeviathan]

My concern with the mobbing isn't the pressure for contrition or redemption, I think that's appropriate. It's when the pressure ramps up beyond that, when contrition and redemption are dismissed as even possible.

 

I am a firm believer that zero tolerance approaches lead to spectacular failures. They often cause more damage to a cause than if they never existed and many innocents suffer in the meantime. These issues are too important, we should resist anything that looks like zero tolerance. Even if the intentions are noble.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Of having the most extreme reaction possible. 

 

We're talking about tweets that these guys made when they were in high school. You'd think at some point the outrage mob would realize how ridiculous this whole "investigation," is, but that's asking for reason where there isn't any.   

Most extreme reaction possible?  Are we lynching them? No.  Pretty sure they can use the same water fountain as us, as well.   (I can do hyperbole too is the point)

 

They are being decryed publicly.  They are face no criminal charges.  No violence.  Nothing which the targets of racism and sexism have faced.  

 

I didn't say crap like this in high school, and I'm at least a decade older (and was super active on the internet even then).  And if people want to shame me for my use of "gay" and rarely "faggot" I definitely deserve it.   Most people don't use social media to communicate such messages, no matter what their age is.  (I think these tweets are a symptom of a culture and families that approve of such talk, we need not solely blame the individual, but yes we should forcefully disavow such talk.)

 

That said, should it be such a big news story? Meh, probably not, but, historically, dominant culture has always shouted down this kind of talk in favor of he's a good guy, he didn't know any better, it was accidental, innocent racism.  

 

Accidental, innocent racism.  That's what we're going with.  Oi.