Twins 2018 payroll

[Bill Brown69]

 

Man, the offseason between 2021 and 2022 will be huge.  Sano,Buxton, Rosario, and Duffey all hitting free agency.  I hope they are locked up before then!

 

Not sure if I would put Duffey as important as the others. Sano might well be the unaffordable contract. He has publicly stated his goal is to be the first 500 mil contract in baseball history. 

 

Lock up 3 position players long term, 1 per year for 3 years and evaluate pitching as they develop and lock up 2 pitchers for a long deal and we have a reason to pull for "OUR" guys for several years.

[Bill Brown69]

 

A lot of "average fans" have been saying that for 40 years. And they still draw over 2,000,000 per year. With a team that has lost 95 games plus in 4 of the previous 6 seasons. In a metro area of fewer than 3,000,000.

If there is one thing pro sports fans in Minnesota have shown it is that they will come back.

 

From the day Hrbek retired until the day the contraction was announced I did not watch or listen to a single game. I could not stand the misery of knowing that the only baseball would be bad baseball.

[laloesch]

 

Not sure if I would put Duffey as important as the others. Sano might well be the unaffordable contract. He has publicly stated his goal is to be the first 500 mil contract in baseball history. 

 

Lock up 3 position players long term, 1 per year for 3 years and evaluate pitching as they develop and lock up 2 pitchers for a long deal and we have a reason to pull for "OUR" guys for several years.

 

Yes and if he makes such a demand when the time comes you trade him and move on.  Simple as that.  

[amjgt]

Thanks. I forgot to mention that if Hughes doesn't pitch next year, insurance will pick up some of his salary - I think up to half, but I'm not sure - so there would some salary relief in that instance.

Wasn't it reported after his recent "successful" surgery (aren't they all called that) that he would be ready to go for Spring Training?

 

Which doesn't mean he'll be effective, but that would likely nix the insurance

[SwainZag]

 

Not sure if I would put Duffey as important as the others. Sano might well be the unaffordable contract. He has publicly stated his goal is to be the first 500 mil contract in baseball history. 

 

Lock up 3 position players long term, 1 per year for 3 years and evaluate pitching as they develop and lock up 2 pitchers for a long deal and we have a reason to pull for "OUR" guys for several years.

 

Do you have a link or any reference to Sano saying that?  There's a lot out there to people speculating that Harper will become baseball's 1st $400 million dollar player, but I can't seem to remember or find anything relating to Sano.

[Mr. Brooks]

Not sure if I would put Duffey as important as the others. Sano might well be the unaffordable contract. He has publicly stated his goal is to be the first 500 mil contract in baseball history.

 

Lock up 3 position players long term, 1 per year for 3 years and evaluate pitching as they develop and lock up 2 pitchers for a long deal and we have a reason to pull for "OUR" guys for several years.

If Sano has publically stated that, then there should be a record of it somewhere.

Could you link to it, or tell me where it can be seen?

 

I've heard this claimed before, but even my best google skills haven't been able to uncover even a third hand account of that statement, let alone first hand.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Signing Escobar should be a sure thing.

Adrianza is not the hitter Esco is and Eduardo is a fine fielder at several positions.

I'm throwing in with the 'sign him' crowd.

[yarnivek1972]

Signing Escobar should be a sure thing.

Adrianza is not the hitter Esco is and Eduardo is a fine fielder at several positions.

I'm throwing in with the 'sign him' crowd.

Escobar is a poor fielder at several positions. He has a negative UZR everywhere he has played for his career except shortstop, where it is 0.2, which is still not good.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah, if Escobar was a "fine fielder", he'd be starting somewhere.

[Supfin99]

I could care less how much the payroll is.  150 Mil payroll guarantees us nothing except some fans will complain it still isn't enough.  Where do you want to sign some one?  Would everyone be happy if we signed an OF?  This way we can take a lineup spot away from 3 young and improving players?  Should we sign a SS to clog the development of Polanco or Gordon?  Even if you want to sign a pitcher, who's spot does he take and who do we sign?  over the next calendar year Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Stewart, Slegers and Thorpe will all likely make their debut.  Sleigers and Jorge already have.  We have Santana and Berrios already in the rotation for next year.  Plus we need to keep a spot for Mejia who showed enough this year to deserve another chance next year.  Lastly you have May coming back from TJ surgery.  At the beginning of the year Santana and Berrios are written in ink.  I would put Mejia with dark pencil.  That leaves 2 spots available for May, Slegers Gonsalves and Romero.  I really think that both Romero and Gonzalvez are going to be given legitimate shots to win spots next year.  Even if you could go out and sign the best FA pitcher available, Yu Darvish, should you?  This isn't about being cheap.  Do these contracts ever work out?  Do you want to sign a soon to be 32 yr old pitcher to an 8 year 240 mil dollar contract?  I really don't want to.  I'd rather follow the Cubs model.  Get most of your pieces in place thru home grown talent and then sign the strategic FA (Lester) when you are ready.  That time is the winter of 2018 or 2019.  I'd much rather see if Gonsalves, Romero and Berrios can all become legitimate number 2 or 3 starters.  Can Slegers or Mejia develop into league average starters?  I don't know but I want to find out.

 

I want to do the same with the bullpen.  The last thing I want to see is a bunch of payroll used up to bring in a couple of above average over priced volatile relievers.  We now have 4 pieces that I feel pretty comfortable with in Rogers, Duffy, Pressley and Hildenberger.  Business might be on his way to locking down another spot.  At most there are really only 2 spots left next year for high leverage relievers.  I thought for sure at the beginning of this year that those 2 spots in 2018 would be filled by Nick Burdi and Tyler Jay.  Due to injuries they are both highly unlikely to win spots next year.  But new guys have rose up to take their place.  I can't wait to see what John Curtis does when he is called up in Sept.  Also if Gabriel Moya stuff will translate to the majors.  We have plenty options in the pen without signing more relievers.  

 

Souhan wrote an article a month ago that talked about that if the Twins make the playoffs or not will have next to nothing to do with what happened at the trading deadline.  If they made it was due to their young players improving and their veterans playing like stars.  This resurgence towards a playoff spot is due to exactly that.  The young guys like Buck, Rosario, Jorge and Max are playing like allstars.  The veterans like Dozier and Mauer are hitting a ton.  That is why we are leading the wild card right now and it wouldn't matter if Garcia was our 5th starter or Kindler was our closer.

 

The same can be said for the Twins chances of winning a world series or 2 over the next 5 years.  For this to happen Sano and Buxton need to be annual MVP contenders like their MILB careers suggested.  Rosario, Kepler, Gordon and Polanco need to be above average starters to borderline all stars.  Berries needs to be the real deal and at least a number 2 caliber starter.  At least one of Romero and Gonsalves needs to become a 2/3 starter.  Preferably Romero becomes a 2 and Gonsalves becomes a 3.  We need one or 2 more from the May, Slegers, Thorpe, Stewart, Jorge group to become league average or better starters.  We need to find dominant closer and 2 wipe out setup men out of Rogers, Hildenberger, Curtis, Burdi, Jay, Anderson, Clay.  This may seem like wishing for a lot of things to go right but a lot of this already happening.  Buck and Sano have shown month long plus of MVP stretches.  Rosario, Max and Polanco have all shown stretches of good to great play.  Berries has looked like a potential ace at times.  Rogers and Hildenberger already appear to be lockdown bullpen pieces.  The other young guys have all dominated in the minors and have the talent and stuff to do so in the majors.  Once you get a majority of these things to happen you then supplement the items you missed on with free agents.

 

In Nov 2018 you might have a shot at a Manny Machado or a Dallas Keuchel to be the final piece of a world series contender.  In 2018 the only veteran contacts we will have is the final year owed to Hughes and Castro totaling 21 mil.  

 

 

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Escobar is a poor fielder at several positions. He has a negative UZR everywhere he has played for his career except shortstop, where it is 0.2, which is still not good.

Fully half of all fielders have a negative UZR per FanGraphs.

Escobar is at -.1, above Dozier, Sano and Polanco.

 

I think he does a pretty good job for a guy who can actually hit some.

You want a super fielding MI you either get a superstar or field a Florimon.

[yarnivek1972]

Fully half of all fielders have a negative UZR per FanGraphs.

Escobar is at -.1, above Dozier, Sano and Polanco.

 

I think he does a pretty good job for a guy who can actually hit some.

You want a super fielding MI you either get a superstar or field a Florimon.

lol, you're kidding right? Of course half the infielders have negative UZR. A zero UZR would be league average. Half above. Half below.

[ashbury]

Attendance has also plummeted due to 5 years of bottom 5 performance. That affects revenues.

It does. But they also need to embrace John Maynard Keynes' economics. Even Nixon or Friedman or somebody stated that we're all Keynesians now, 40+ years ago. A little cyclical deficit spending should not make anyone run away in terror.

 

_{^{/ Yes, I realize a private business isn't the gubmint. This was a little tongue in cheek.} A little^.}

[spanman2]

 

Attendance has also plummeted due to 5 years of bottom 5 performance. That affects revenues. Win games and fans will come back. It is a beautiful park and Twins fans are great but they can't deal with constant losing.

I believe there have been articles etc. in the past where the Pohlad's have said they are willing to spend around 50 to low 50's a % of revenue towards payroll.  

[Brandon Warne]

• Sign one of Carlos Santana/J.D. Martinez
• Find another starter

 

I'd feel good about this team's chances if they do this. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I really could care less about the payroll number. I don't think that's the best way of looking at it. What I will say is that I'll be very disappointed if our Twins don't go out and get one legit above average SP and one shut down RP. They can afford to do that via FA or via creative trades. I don't really care which one. Their window is open as of next year. If they walk into next season with the same group of pitchers (particularly starters), I won't be happy.

[amjgt]

 

• Sign one of Carlos Santana/J.D. Martinez
• Find another starter

I'd feel good about this team's chances if they do this. </p>

This post was way easier to quote and agree with than the long post on the previous page.

 

Right-handed DH/1B/OF.

A really good one.

 

One relief pitcher

A really good one.

 

One SP.

One that's had a couple down years but is a candidate for a make-good, one year deal. With upside and only financial downside (one year of it)

[snepp]

 

Which is why JT Chargois remains a wasted spot on the 40 man roster.  The Twins could have retroactively placed him on the MLB 60 day DL.  They chose not to do so.  No service time.  No MLB salary.

 

Players on the 60 day DL do acquire service time.

 

Players on the minor league DL cannot be placed on the 60 day DL.

 

Not sure about salary, but I assume a player making league minimum placed on the 60 day DL would continue to receive it given that they continue to accrue service time.

[snepp]

Escobar is a poor fielder at several positions. He has a negative UZR everywhere he has played for his career except shortstop, where it is 0.2, which is still not good.

  

lol, you're kidding right? Of course half the infielders have negative UZR. A zero UZR would be league average. Half above. Half below.

Which is it? Is he a poor fielding shortstop, or a league average one?

[Pardon My Dinger]

And here is what Levine said in a recent interview - "I'm not sure how you're vanquishing foes, and our goal is to vanquish the foes."

 

Does he seriously talk like that?

[yarnivek1972]

Players on the 60 day DL do acquire service time.

 

Players on the minor league DL cannot be placed on the 60 day DL.

 

Not sure about salary, but I assume a player making league minimum placed on the 60 day DL would continue to receive it given that they continue to accrue service time.

Yes. I understand all this. But Chargois was optioned out in ST because he pitched poorly. It was basically right after that that he went on the shelf. The logical and undeniable conclusion is that he pitched poorly because he was hurt. At that time, the Twins could have rescinded his option (and thus saved an option for possible use in the future) and placed him on the MLB DL. The Twins decided not to do this. Other teams have. I can't think of examples, but this issue was discussed in May and examples were given then. The Twins decided that saving a few bucks and not giving Chargois service time was more valuable than saving an option and eventually a 40 man roster spot. The Twins didn't know that in March, but they did by May.

 

Just remember this some day in the future if the Twins want to send Chargois down but can't because he's out of options.

[jimmer]

 

Does he seriously talk like that?

Game of Twins? :-)

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Players on the 60 day DL do acquire service time.

 

Players on the minor league DL cannot be placed on the 60 day DL.

 

Not sure about salary, but I assume a player making league minimum placed on the 60 day DL would continue to receive it given that they continue to accrue service time.

 

This.... I'd add to this a bit... placing Chargois on the 60 day major league DL is only necessary if there is absolutely no chaff on the 40. While we have been at 40 most of the year, I don't think any of us can say with confidence that there were clear upgrades on the major league wire that could have been had for a 40 man spot.

[USAFChief]

 

Yes. I understand all this. But Chargois was optioned out in ST because he pitched poorly. It was basically right after that that he went on the shelf. The logical and undeniable conclusion is that he pitched poorly because he was hurt. At that time, the Twins could have rescinded his option (and thus saved an option for possible use in the future) and placed him on the MLB DL. The Twins decided not to do this. Other teams have. I can't think of examples, but this issue was discussed in May and examples were given then. The Twins decided that saving a few bucks and not giving Chargois service time was more valuable than saving an option and eventually a 40 man roster spot. The Twins didn't know that in March, but they did by May.

Just remember this some day in the future if the Twins want to send Chargois down but can't because he's out of options.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[ashbury]

Does he seriously talk like that?

Verily.

[kab21]

 

I believe there have been articles etc. in the past where the Pohlad's have said they are willing to spend around 50 to low 50's a % of revenue towards payroll.  

Yes, and if you increase revenue by drawing more fans then you increase payroll. I am not at all surprised that attendance and payroll has dropped (relative to the league) when they were losing for many years. Win for a couple of years and they will draw far more fans than now (thus increase revenue/payroll).

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

lol, you're kidding right? Of course half the infielders have negative UZR. A zero UZR would be league average. Half above. Half below.

lol? That's all you got?

You act like Escobar is a poor fielder, I make multiple points and you come back with lol?

You got to pick up your game, yarn.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yes, and if you increase revenue by drawing more fans then you increase payroll. I am not at all surprised that attendance and payroll has dropped (relative to the league) when they were losing for many years. Win for a couple of years and they will draw far more fans than now (thus increase revenue/payroll).

I think these days the TV contracts dictate revenue as much or more than attendance, though I could be wrong.

[ashbury]

 

lol, you're kidding right? Of course half the infielders have negative UZR. A zero UZR would be league average. Half above. Half below.

lol? That's all you got?

You act like Escobar is a poor fielder, I make multiple points and you come back with lol?

You got to pick up your game, yarn.

Mod note: Guys. LOL is OK if you're laughing with someone, at their joke for example - not if you're laughing at the person. And don't make it personal in response. There's been too much of this in general on the site lately, so let's please dial it back, everyone.

[Vanimal46]

Upon further review, Escobar finished the year strong and should probably get the $4 MM arbitration next year. Even with expected regression, he's good 3B insurance. 

I still wouldn't offer Gibson arbitration and aim higher via trade/FA using the $20 MM in the budget.