Berrios and the Front Office

[beckmt]

It may be a factor with Berrios.  I remember Molitor commenting the Twins would not be seeing Berrios for a while, and it was commented at the time it could be a long while. 

To me this is more an issue with Molitor not wanting younger pitchers, who may or may not be major league ready on his club.  This may only be addressed when Molly is gone.

If above is the case, since I do not think he is a great pitching handler, fire him as soon as Pohlad will sign off on it.

[Major League Ready]

 

I am not sure why we are expected to give the new FO any extra patience.  This is a team and it is a team that has given the fan who pays for the stadium through taxes and the games through attendance and therefore has accrued a level of frustration that is justified.  Maybe we will find Falvey and Lavine to be geniuses, but what do we have to hang on to?  What have they demonstrated - Castro and Giminez???? 

 

Like so many I am impatient for some new results, for some demonstration that they have a plan, an idea, a path for us to follow, but they have not given us anything to grab onto.  I hope for their success, but I have no loyalty to them.  The majority of the front office is the same, the coaching staff is mostly the same, the minor league system is the same.  

 

Of course we clamor for Berrios.  He is hope and we all want hope.  Sano has given it to us, Santana has shined.  But is that enough?   

If we expect Berrios and others to prove themselves then Falvey and Lavine have to prove themselves and so far they are struggling rookies like the rest. 

 

What should have they done?   The free agent market was terrible.  Should they have gone and made a bad deal just to say they were aggressive?   Should they traded away their top young talent like some advocated we do with Kepler for LuCroy?  That is a horrible strategy for a team that is just starting to get better and still has several young pieces that need to develop.

 

It's mighty hard to grade Falvey and Lavine just yet.  The area where this organization needed the most attention is drafting and player development.  I have heard that message from them consistently so we will have to wait and see if that happens.  To say I don't want to be patient on something that cant possibly be judged until the process plays out is not a good argument.

[mikelink45]

 

What should have they done?   The free agent market was terrible.  Should they have gone and made a bad deal just to say they were aggressive?   Should they traded away their top young talent like some advocated we do with Kepler for LuCroy?  That is a horrible strategy for a team that is just starting to get better and still has several young pieces that need to develop.

 

It's mighty hard to grade Falvey and Lavine just yet.  The area where this organization needed the most attention is drafting and player development.  I have heard that message from them consistently so we will have to wait and see if that happens.  To say I don't want to be patient on something that cant possibly be judged until the process plays out is not a good argument.

You make good points.  No I do not want to see them make poor trades or poor signings, but patience with them also implies patience with the team and that has worn out.  I have hopes for them, but I also have no reason to say they are or will be good.  It is a wish, not a fact, and if they move on in two years and are replaced I will not be patient with the team then either.  

 

I give them no marks, good or bad yet.  I will determine if patience is warranted when I see what they start to show the plan for the future.  Belisle, Breslow, Giminez, and Castro are the changes to date.  The rest is inherited.  

So I am not implying that they have failed, but I am still in an impatient mode and will be until more things happen to give me either comfort or frustration. 

[old nurse]

 

Hiw much service time did berrios get last year. How long till we gain an extra year of control? Could that play into when he gets called up?

74 days of service time last year. 172 is the number needed for a year   About June 27

[howieramone2]

 

I get where you're coming from. I guess from what I've read about 99.9% of posts that disagree with the FO aren't extreme. I'm not saying I agree with all of them but there almost always is some reasoning provided. I feel like the "you're not part of the FO," argument is used as a crutch, and incorrectly so, when somebody tries to defend FO moves. A person's level of involvement with the organization doesn't directly correlate to how "correct," their opinion is.    

I would say at least 50% of the posts disagreeing with the FO are extreme, and only occasionally is reasoning provided which a person with an average baseball IQ would recognize as such.

[howieramone2]

 

I still have no illusions that this team will contend. Twins record vs current above .500 teams: 5-10.  Twins record vs below .500 teams: 9-2.  

 

The Red Sox come to town this weekend.  The only reason they MIGHT not get swept is because Ervin pitches Sunday.  But, it's against Chris Sale.  He's only 2-2, but the Sox scored 1 run combined in his two losses.  Quite frankly, Ervin is overdue for a subpar start.  He isn't the second coming of Sandy Koufax.  He isn't going to post a sub 1 ERA all year.

 

After that, the Twins go to Chicago and Cleveland. Then they play Colorado, Kansas City and Baltimore.  Let's say the Twins go 5-13 during that stretch, which I see as extremely possible.  That would make them 19-25.  Would you be ready to let Berrios pitch even if he hasn't mastered command?

Let's not say that at all. This board isn't going anywhere. We can afford to wait and see what happens, and not go by what one member out of 9000+ decides is extremely possible.

[howieramone2]

 

To obfuscate.  At least the posters here are genuinely trying to make sense of things.  Most FOs stand in front of cameras and microphones and intentionally do the exact opposite.  

 

At best they seek to placate.

No. A significant number of posters come here with an agenda(i.e. I'm smarter than the FO) and we get to hear the same thing over and over again.

[Guest]

I agree that it's unlikely Berrios has no command but it's not a binary situation, either. He could have mediocre command, which the front office doesn't believe will play in the majors.

 

While I agree that keeping Berrios in the minors will become indefensible at some point, I don't think we're anywhere near that situation yet. The kid is 22 years old and we're 25 games into the MLB season. We're less than a sixth of the way through the 2017 season.

 

If we reach 60 games and he's not here, it'll become pretty damned annoying. If we reach 100 games and he's not here, it probably becomes a WTF situation. But we're basically half a season away from that point.

 

Then again, so much depends on what the Twins are doing in the Central as well. And who Berrios should be replacing on the MLB roster.

 

Personally, I'd be surprised if Berrios isn't here well before the break.

Lot of good thoughts, Brock. As I said on another thread, Roy Halladay didn't demonstrate command and stick in the majors until the second half of his age 24 season.

 

Also, everyone thinks Cleveland front office experience means some Falvey magic wand is going to turn a 59-win team instantly into a juggernaut. In Antonetti's first two seasons, however, Cleveland won 80 and 68 games, even though they outperformed their Pythagorean expectations both years. In his third year, he lucked into Terry Francona being available and they won 92 games.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I would say at least 50% of the posts disagreeing with the FO are extreme, and only occasionally is reasoning provided which a person with an average baseball IQ would recognize as such.

So everybody who disagrees with your take on an issue has a low baseball IQ? Tell me, what is it like being the smartest man in baseball?  I'm surprised some FO hasn't lured you away from TD yet....

[TheLeviathan]

 

So everybody who disagrees with your take on an issue has a low baseball IQ? Tell me, what is it like being the smartest man in baseball?  I'm surprised some FO hasn't lured you away from TD yet....

 

Well, he tried to get their attention back at that World Series parade in 2016.......

[drjim]

Still a chance for Berrios at the next turn.

 

 

Maybe he'll fix his command the next start.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Still a chance for Berrios at the next turn.

Maybe he'll fix his command the next start.

Assuming they play.  The Red Wings have played one day this week because of a persistent weather system that just keeps dumping rain basically all across the Appalachains and Ohio River valley, including the Rochester area.

[USAFChief]

MOD HAT ON:  Let's focus on the subject matter and not other posters, please.

 

kthanks.

[yarnivek1972]

Mejia has allowed 3 runs and 7 baserunners in 3 IP so far. Probably not going to be him coming up.

 

Edit: 6 runs and 11 baserunners in 4. Haley with 2 Ks in the 5th. Can we officially get the tar and feathers if Mejia is called up next Saturday?