Kennys Vargas

[TheLeviathan]

So does tonight finally punch his ticket off the bench?

 

I'd really like to see a more consistent rotation of Mauer/Grossman/Vargas/Rosario/Kepler in the 1B/DH/OF rotation.  There is no reason Vargas can't be staring 3-4 times a week.

[DaveW]

I agree, but take Kepler off that list. He is playing too good and his ceiling is far too high to be losing any at bats at this stage. Vargas, Rosario, Mauer, Grossman can split the at bats between the 3 positions.

[TheLeviathan]

I just think against a tough lefty you could give Kepler the day off from time to time.  Just rotate that with Rosario.  

 

Most of the ABs should be coming at Mauer's expense though.

[yarnivek1972]

He can have all of Mauer's at bats as far as I'm concerned.

[DaveW]

 

I just think against a tough lefty you could give Kepler the day off from time to time.  Just rotate that with Rosario.  

 

Most of the ABs should be coming at Mauer's expense though.

Kepler upside >>>>>> Rosario Upside

Kepler needs to be getting the at bats against "tough lefties" it's the only way he is going to learn how to eventually hit them.

[DaveW]

 

He can have all of Mauer's at bats as far as I'm concerned.

Meh, the amount of at bats that can be had when talking about: LF/DH/1B are literally a buffet of them.

While it's not exactly an all you can eat buffet, there is plenty of food (at bats) for Mauer, Vargas, Rosario and Grossman to have plenty.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Kepler upside >>>>>> Rosario Upside

Kepler needs to be getting the at bats against "tough lefties" it's the only way he is going to learn how to eventually hit them.

 

Kid needs a day off every now and then Dave.  I love Kepler, just a reality.

[yarnivek1972]

Meh, the amount of at bats that can be had when talking about: LF/DH/1B are literally a buffet of them.

 

While it's not exactly an all you can eat buffet, there is plenty of food (at bats) for Mauer, Vargas, Rosario and Grossman to have plenty.

What is the point of giving at bats to a non productive hitter who is clearly not part of this team's future?

 

That would be like having Nick Tepesch or Kyle Gibson start instead of Jose Berrios. Oh, wait.

[DaveW]

 

What is the point of giving at bats to a non productive hitter who is clearly not part of this team's future?

That would be like having Nick Tepesch or Kyle Gibson start instead of Jose Berrios. Oh, wait.

Mauer is still around next year, and even though the results haven't been there at the plate (unlucky) they likely will come. Additionally Mauer's approach at the plate has been rubbing off on Sano a bit (that has a lot of value in itself)

Like I said: 4 players, 3 spots in the lineup, plenty of the buffet to go around.

It's not a given that Rosario, Vargas or Grossman are long term assets at this point as well FWIW. (Grossman is the one who worries me the most)

[yarnivek1972]

Mauer is still around next year, and even though the results haven't been there at the plate (unlucky) they likely will come. Additionally Mauer's approach at the plate has been rubbing off on Sano a bit (that has a lot of value in itself)

 

Like I said: 4 players, 3 spots in the lineup, plenty of the buffet to go around.

 

It's not a given that Rosario, Vargas or Grossman are long term assets at this point as well FWIW. (Grossman is the one who worries me the most)

Sorry, not buying "unlucky" for Mauer. You can point out babip and exit velocity and all that. Meaningless. Teams shift against him. Is it "unlucky" that he hits the ball into a shifted infield or outfield or is that simply who he is?

 

Also, saw something that he was swinging at like 45% of pitches in the zone, when the MLB average was 67%. Good hitters attack pitches in the zone and drive them. They don't watch more than HALF of them for called strikes, putting themselves into a defensive swing mode. Mauer does. Because that is what his game is. He has zero desire to drive the ball. He is more than happy to slap a single to left. That's not the attitude or approach I want rewarded with at bats.

[DocBauer]

Disagree on the value of Rosario's value. He's only scratching the surface of his ability and potential. He's never going to be the most disciplined or consistent player, but you can see his ability just watching him. He's only going to get better and better.

 

I appreciate Mauer's defense, and I agree he's been a little unlucky offensively this season based on metrics, with matchups and days off, there is absolutely no reason 5 guys cant fit in to 5 lineup spots and everyone gets to play consistently.

 

The potential Vargas has, what he he has flashes in the past, his nice start thus far in 2017, you would have to be dense not to play him and make this work.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree, but take Kepler off that list. He is playing too good and his ceiling is far too high to be losing any at bats at this stage. Vargas, Rosario, Mauer, Grossman can split the at bats between the 3 positions.

Even if Kepler turns into a .900 OPS beast, it's likely he'll be - at best - mediocre against LHP. Sitting him down against the occasional lefty isn't going to stunt the kid's development in any way.

[DaveW]

 

Even if Kepler turns into a .900 OPS beast, it's likely he'll be - at best - mediocre against LHP. Sitting him down against the occasional lefty isn't going to stunt the kid's development in any way.

Sorry Brock, I can't take your young OF "takes" seriously ever since you told me that Hicks was a worse player than Danny Santana. Once upon a time Hicks "never would have been able to hit RHP, why even play him against them?" What has he done in 2017? Just a little 1.280 OPS with 4 HR (HR every 6 at bats)

Kepler is/was as raw as they come as a prospect, he was 16 out of Germany when they signed him, he is barely 24 now and is rocking a nice 133 OPS+ already. Look at how far he has come every single freaking year. 

Sorry I'm not buying your "he will never be able to hit lefties" non sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Sorry Brock, I can't take your young OF "takes" seriously ever since you told me that Hicks was a worse player than Danny Santana. Once upon a time Hicks "never would have been able to hit RHP, why even play him against them?" What has he done in 2017? Just a little 1.280 OPS with 4 HR (HR every 6 at bats)

Kepler is/was as raw as they come as a prospect, he was 16 out of Germany when they signed him, he is barely 24 now and is rocking a nice 133 OPS+ already. Look at how far he has come every single freaking year. 

Sorry I'm not buying your "he will never be able to hit lefties" non sense.

Dave, I adore Kepler. I think he's amazing.

 

But the reality is that so few LHB hit LHP well that sitting Max against the occasional lefty is likely irrelevant.

 

And don't bring up past arguments. You know I have piles of fodder on you but never bring it up. Tell me again what you said about Dozier in 2013.

[DaveW]

 

Dave, I adore Kepler. I think he's amazing.

 

But the reality is that so few LHB hit LHP well that sitting Max against the occasional lefty is likely irrelevant.

 

And don't bring up past arguments. You know I have piles of fodder on you but never bring it up. Tell me again what you said about Dozier in 2013.

Yeah, and a couple months later I said I was 100% wrong and Dozier has been one of my favorites ever since! 


Listen, Kepler is awesome, he already is awesome, but his upside is that of a fine steak house. Rosario? Vargas? Grossman? Solid players, but their ultimate upside is that of a decent chain steakhouse (like Longhorn steak house)

More importantly Kepler's midpoint is that of a damn good restaurant  (133 OPS+), something like Butcher and the Boar. Rosario? Grossman? Their midpoint is probably closer to a mid tier buffet, like a Golden Corral or Country kitchen for arguments sake. 

[USAFChief]

Vargas and/or Park should have been on this 25 man roster from opening day.  

 

 

[Guest]

Yeah, and a couple months later I said I was 100% wrong and Dozier has been one of my favorites ever since! 

Listen, Kepler is awesome, he already is awesome, but his upside is that of a fine steak house. Rosario? Vargas? Grossman? Solid players, but their ultimate upside is that of a decent chain steakhouse (like Longhorn steak house)

More importantly Kepler's midpoint is that of a damn good restaurant  (133 OPS+), something like Butcher and the Boar. Rosario? Grossman? Their midpoint is probably closer to a mid tier buffet, like a Golden Corral or Country kitchen for arguments sake.

 

Well, maybe so, but what kind of ice cream is each of them?

[jorgenswest]

I don't want to see Grossman in the OF on any regular rotation. I would rather rotate the three. That is enough work to keep them all sharp.

[David HK]

 

I agree, but take Kepler off that list. He is playing too good and his ceiling is far too high to be losing any at bats at this stage. Vargas, Rosario, Mauer, Grossman can split the at bats between the 3 positions.

and maybe, just maybe, one of 'em can knock Castro out of the 6-hole, and maybe Joe out of the cleanup spot....

[Taildragger8791]

 

Mauer is still around next year, and even though the results haven't been there at the plate (unlucky) they likely will come. Additionally Mauer's approach at the plate has been rubbing off on Sano a bit (that has a lot of value in itself)

Like I said: 4 players, 3 spots in the lineup, plenty of the buffet to go around.

It's not a given that Rosario, Vargas or Grossman are long term assets at this point as well FWIW. (Grossman is the one who worries me the most)

 

I don't see how Mauer rubbed off on Sano in any way. Sano just learned how to lay off unhittable pitches and attack the others. That's just experience. He did it in the minors, so it follows that he'd eventually figure it out in the majors.

 

If he learned from Mauer then we'd see him watching grooved fastballs instead of sending those balls into people's faces in straightaway center.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't want to see Grossman in the OF on any regular rotation. I would rather rotate the three. That is enough work to keep them all sharp.

 

Getting both Grossman and Vargas in the lineup against lefties is important.  That was more my point.

[jorgenswest]

Getting both Grossman and Vargas in the lineup against lefties is important.  That was more my point.

I concur. No need to change the OF defense though.

[Riverbrian]

So does tonight finally punch his ticket off the bench?

 

I'd really like to see a more consistent rotation of Mauer/Grossman/Vargas/Rosario/Kepler in the 1B/DH/OF rotation.  There is no reason Vargas can't be staring 3-4 times a week.

I agree

 

I'd add Buxton to that rotation.

 

Sitting once a week until someone gets hurt will stifle the development of no one.

 

However hand selecting a couple of players to share the majority of the bench burden has the potential to destroy a couple of them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree

I'd add Buxton to that rotation.

Sitting once a week until someone gets hurt will stifle the development of no one.

However hand selecting a couple of players to share the majority of the bench burden has the potential to destroy a couple of them.

Two weeks ago, I would agree that sitting Buxton occasionally is the right move.

 

But then he began to show life. Eight games ago, Buxton's OPS was .257. Today, it stands at .506.

 

I don't take that guy out of the lineup for at least two weeks unless you feel he badly needs a rest day. The kid appears to be figuring it out. You let him keep on keepin' on.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Vargas and/or Park should have been on this 25 man roster from opening day.  

 

Careful, sounds like you are questioning the all knowing FO.

[Mike Sixel]

While I too would prefer that they not start platooning Kepler at this age.....giving him 10 games off, and all of them coming against lefties, that makes sense.

 

And yes, Vargas should have been on this roster from day 1. But, since I can't scout him in AAA, I have no ability to make that argument.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

While I too would prefer that they not start platooning Kepler at this age.....giving him 10 games off, and all of them coming against lefties, that makes sense.

That's all I'm saying. I don't want to see Kepler platooned but this is his first season and he's a LHB. Putting him on track to play 145-150 games and sitting against LHP when it makes sense isn't a bad idea.

[Bill Brown69]

Vargas was on the DL when the season started. Park could be argued that he should have made the team but he went to the DL in about the 4th game.

 

Even though Grossman has done well, I hope Vargas gets 75% of the starts. I really think Grossman should start working with a 1st baseman glove.

[Major League Ready]

 

Getting both Grossman and Vargas in the lineup against lefties is important.  That was more my point.

 

I would like to see Sano / Vargas & Grossman in some combination 3-5 against LHP.

 

Mauer has been fantastic defensively but the time has come to take him out of the middle of the order. As good as Joe has been defensively, it would be a good time to see if Vargas can man 1B adaquately.

[Mike Sixel]

Kepler sitting today against a RHP, with two lefties coming up as opponents.....