Kennys Vargas

[Riverbrian]

 

The way the roster is currently constructed, Grossman has to play the outfield if you ever want to give Kepler, Rosario or Buxton a day off.

If you take Grossman out of the OF rotation, that will simply mean fewer at bats for him. So, you are instead advocating a 3 way split of DH/1b at bats for Mauer, Grossman and Vargas. Keeping in mind that Sano is added to that every so often. Now you are probably limiting Grossman and Vargas to 350 PA over a full season. Is that REALLY what you want.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Mauer needs to not be a regular starter, period. The sooner the decision makers reach this conclusion, the better off the franchise will be IMO.

 

Yep and I'll add that Grossman has played well enough to play. 

[High heat]

Vargas hits another bomb and this one was a rocket! Hitting .300 with 4 hr in 10 games. I know small sample but he looks comfortable up there. Hoping it continues and he's our regular DH part time 1B

[yarnivek1972]

Vargas hits another bomb and this one was a rocket! Hitting .300 with 4 hr in 10 games. I know small sample but he looks comfortable up there. Hoping it continues and he's our regular DH part time 1B

My vote is play everyday somewhere. If that means Mauer sits, so be it.

[jsteve96]

I'd also like to see Vargas start. his numbers in AAA really weren't that good. kinda seems like a repeat of when he was called up at first last year too but I hope he's figured it out.

[yarnivek1972]

I'd also like to see Vargas start. his numbers in AAA really weren't that good. kinda seems like a repeat of when he was called up at first last year too but I hope he's figured it out.

I think he has been vastly different since his second stint last year. He is showing far better plate discipline. He hasn't walked many times so far, but he is making pitchers work and when he gets his pitch, he isn't missing it very often.

[DaveW]

Vargas looks like a perfectly acceptable DH

 

I think it may be time to look into dealing Grossman for some SP or RP help.

 

He is coming back to earth quite a bit and I fear won't hit enough to justify regular time at DH

[yarnivek1972]

Vargas looks like a perfectly acceptable DH

 

I think it may be time to look into dealing Grossman for some SP or RP help.

 

He is coming back to earth quite a bit and I fear won't hit enough to justify regular time at DH

He's still hitting better than Joe Mauer and I expect that to continue.

 

Trading him won't fetch much anyway. Certainly not pitching substantially better than what the Twins have. Mid range prospect, MAYBE.

[DaveW]

Trading him won't fetch much anyway. Certainly not pitching substantially better than what the Twins have. Mid range prospect, MAYBE.

I disagree

[yarnivek1972]

I disagree

What would you expect to receive for someone who "may not hit enough to justify regular time at DH"?

[DaveW]

 

What would you expect to receive for someone who "may not hit enough to justify regular time at DH"?

That's the thing, Grossman isn't a DH, he is a guy who hits well enough to be an OF, but the Twins already have a full OF of Buxton, Kepler and Rosario.

Grossman is good enough where he can be an upgrade for some teams in RF or LF, yeah his defense isn't great, but the bat makes up for it.

[drjim]

That's the thing, Grossman isn't a DH, he is a guy who hits well enough to be an OF, but the Twins already have a full OF of Buxton, Kepler and Rosario.

 

Grossman is good enough where he can be an upgrade for some teams in RF or LF, yeah his defense isn't great, but the bat makes up for it.

Sounds like you could get a C+ prospect.

[DaveW]

 

Sounds like you could get a C+ prospect.

Or a solid RP, which is what this team needs.

 

[drjim]

Or a solid RP, which is what this team needs.

 

 

Could get that. I wouldn't be opposed.

[DaveW]

 

Could get that. I wouldn't be opposed.

Yeah, that's the whole thing, Grossman is probably good enough to be playing close to every day for a team, however the Twins don't really have the at bats for him. Instead of having him ride the bench, PH, and platoon at DH (Bad idea) they should really look at how best to help the team.

I agree that he won't get a great or even good prospect, but I am very confident he can get a RP with team control. Frankly, this team needs all the BP help it can get, I don't have confidence in any of them besides Duffey at this point.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Hitters who can't field no longer bring much in either trade or the free agent market. Look at what Encarnacion signed for last winter. Over the past five seasons, he has posted a 146 OPS+ and he could barely get $60m guaranteed.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Have Joe hit the pine more frequently.

[yarnivek1972]

If he won't hit enough to be a dh, he probably won't hit enough to be a corner OF, given that he is a liability out there. It's one thing to be a defensive liability in the OF and put up a .950 OPS. It's different at the .850 level, which is probably where Grossman plateaus.

[DaveW]

 

Hitters who can't field no longer bring much in either trade or the free agent market. Look at what Encarnacion signed for last winter. Over the past five seasons, he has posted a 146 OPS+ and he could barely get $60m guaranteed.

Nobody is suggesting he would bring in a haul.

I am saying a solid RP.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The team doesn't really have a decent 4th OF to replace Grossman with.  I don't see the point in that trade, especially given that he hasn't been a bad defender historically (last year he clearly was, I get that)... 

 

I'd say if a guy like Palka was ready to step up, sure. I don't see that just yet.

 

I still go back to the idea of getting Mauer more time in the corner and at 3B might be the real option to moving a guy like Grossman while potentially providing room for Park.

[DaveW]

 

The team doesn't really have a decent 4th OF to replace Grossman with.  I don't see the point in that trade, especially given that he hasn't been a bad defender historically (last year he clearly was, I get that)... 

 

I'd say if a guy like Palka was ready to step up, sure. I don't see that just yet.

 

I still go back to the idea of getting Mauer more time in the corner and at 3B might be the real option to moving a guy like Grossman while potentially providing room for Park.

Buxton, Kepler and Rosario should be playing every day, so the need for a 4th OF is minimized. Just go sign a guy off the waiver wire.

The bullpen is where this team is doomed, trade Grossman for BP help.

[yarnivek1972]

The team doesn't really have a decent 4th OF to replace Grossman with. I don't see the point in that trade, especially given that he hasn't been a bad defender historically (last year he clearly was, I get that)...

 

I'd say if a guy like Palka was ready to step up, sure. I don't see that just yet.

 

I still go back to the idea of getting Mauer more time in the corner and at 3B might be the real option to moving a guy like Grossman while potentially providing room for Park.

Zach Granite would be an ideal 4th OFer. And he would add speed back into the equation. Sure, he MIGHT be good enough to start someday, but he's already older than 2 of the 3 starting OFers and just one year younger than the other.

 

Until a better option presents itself, Grossman and Vargas need to be in the lineup.

 

I consider the Mauer situation analagous to Ryan Howard. At some point, the Twins need to say "produce or you are not going to play".

Much as playing Howard was a impediment to developing a replacement, so too is playing Mauer. And it has set the Phillies franchise back 5 years.

[DaveW]

 

I consider the Mauer situation analagous to Ryan Howard. At some point, the Twins need to say "produce or you are not going to play".
Much as playing Howard was a impediment to developing a replacement, so too is playing Mauer. And it has set the Phillies franchise back 5 years.

Over his last 10 starts Mauer has a .900 OPS, has 4 doubles etc H

He is clearly starting to produce.

[yarnivek1972]

Over his last 10 starts Mauer has a .900 OPS, has 4 doubles etc H

 

He is clearly starting to produce.

Anyone can get hot for a couple weeks.

 

 

You say starting to produce, I say sample size. Mauer is a low to mid .700 OPS player the last 3 years. That is simply what he is now. That isn't good enough for a middle of the order hitter or a first baseman. Do I know FOR SURE that Vargas is better than that? Of course not. But I think it is pretty sure that Mauer will be a low to mid .700 OPS player and I think the Twins need to find out if Vargss is better than that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I agree that he won't get a great or even good prospect, but I am very confident he can get a RP with team control. Frankly, this team needs all the BP help it can get, I don't have confidence in any of them besides Duffey at this point.

A lot of people were once confident that Plouffe could get a similar return.  I'm not so sure.  Are there really many teams willing to give up a Duffey for a Grossman right now?

[DocBauer]

Vargas should be in the lineup behind Sank just about every day between 1B and DH. Everyone has hot and cold spells, and he will have his. But you play him daily and ride through both.

 

Rosario, Buxton and Kepler should play daily. Period. They need the experience, including Rosario and Kepler against LIP, but Grossman is looking good enough defensively this year to play a corner spot here and there to provide the occasional rest day. Additionally, there are enough AB available for Grossman to DH with Vargas playing 1B, or he too getting the occasional day off.

 

Mayer looks to be heating up. We might yet see the '15 and '16 versions of Mayer, which, combined with his defense, makes him useful. But that doesn't mean he should play daily.

 

I'm not entirely sure if Sank should keep hitting 3rd, or if he should drop to 4th with an additional solid/hot bat hitting in front of him to provide more guys OB opportunities. Regardless, Vargas is the perfect fit to hit behind him daily.

[yarnivek1972]

Re: Mayer. Why does #### autocorrect work except when you need it? lol

[DaveW]

 

A lot of people were once confident that Plouffe could get a similar return.  I'm not so sure.  Are there really many teams willing to give up a Duffey for a Grossman right now?

I don't think the Twins at any point were really actively shopping Plouffe, IIRC he was injured at the trade deadline as well.

Duffey? Prob not, because Duffey is young and a prospect still. But anyone that can be a 7th inning guy would be a massive upgrade for this pen.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Have Joe hit the pine more frequently.

 

so you want him to just stand there, and look at the bench for 2/3 of the game?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Vargas should be in the lineup behind Sank just about every day between 1B and DH. Everyone has hot and cold spells, and he will have his. But you play him daily and ride through both.

Rosario, Buxton and Kepler should play daily. Period. They need the experience, including Rosario and Kepler against LIP, but Grossman is looking good enough defensively this year to play a corner spot here and there to provide the occasional rest day. Additionally, there are enough AB available for Grossman to DH with Vargas playing 1B, or he too getting the occasional day off.

Mayer looks to be heating up. We might yet see the '15 and '16 versions of Mayer, which, combined with his defense, makes him useful. But that doesn't mean he should play daily.

I'm not entirely sure if Sank should keep hitting 3rd, or if he should drop to 4th with an additional solid/hot bat hitting in front of him to provide more guys OB opportunities. Regardless, Vargas is the perfect fit to hit behind him daily.

 

some awesome auto corrects in there.....

[yarnivek1972]

so you want him to just stand there, and look at the bench for 2/3 of the game?

I was personally thinking more like 5 of 7 games. But yeah, that is what I want to see. Do I think that will happen? Not with Paul Molitor managing.