Adam Jones and Fenway

[gunnarthor]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/05/01/orioles-adam-jones-berated-racist-taunts-fenway-park-peanuts/101187172/

 

From the article "Baltimore Orioles All-Star center fielder Adam Jones was berated by racist taunts at Fenway Park while a bag of peanuts was thrown at him Monday night, calling it one of the worst cases of fan abuse he has heard in his career.  “A disrespectful fan threw a bag of peanuts at me,’’ Jones said, “I was called the N-word a handful of times tonight. Thanks. Pretty awesome.’’"

Somewhere between 30 and 60 fans were ejected from the game.  

 

[Vanimal46]

Sad, really.... This isn't the first time Jones has dealt with racist fans, and frankly I'm not sure why he appears to be a target for drunk and stupid fans. 

 

Those 30-60 fans should not be allowed to attend Red Sox games anytime soon. 

[rghrbek]

 

 

Somewhere between 30 and 60 fans were ejected from the game.  

 

That is what Adam Jones heard...so far I haven't read any fans ejected for the use of racial epitaphs (toward Jones).  Just the guy who threw peanuts at him.  The others ejected may have been what happens on a standard game day?  It would be nice to know those using the slurs were caught.

 

I would, of course, fully support the Red Sox removing people for using any type of racial epitaph.

[Blake]

Wasn't it Red Sox fans who taunted Jim Eisenreich about his Tourettes? Or was it New York fans? 

 

My point being that there are some fans that really have no class, whatsoever and the more things change, the more things stay the same.

[gunnarthor]

 

That is what Adam Jones heard...so far I haven't read any fans ejected for the use of racial epitaphs (toward Jones).  Just the guy who threw peanuts at him.  The others ejected may have been what happens on a standard game day?  It would be nice to know those using the slurs were caught.

 

I would, of course, fully support the Red Sox removing people for using any type of racial epitaph.

The USA Today story said that the Red Sox "were investigating the total amount of people who were ejected from the game, but believed it was about half the amount for a variety of violations."  The half presumably refers to the number provided by Jones (60).  

[nicksaviking]

 

The USA Today story said that the Red Sox "were investigating the total amount of people who were ejected from the game, but believed it was about half the amount for a variety of violations."  The half presumably refers to the number provided by Jones (60).  

 

"Less than 30 of our fans were ejected for publicly and embarrassingly being drunken bigots!" -- Much better PR.

 

I'm so embarrassed by these people. Darwinism isn't happening quickly enough in my book.

[GCTF]

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sad, really.... This isn't the first time Jones has dealt with racist fans, and frankly I'm not sure why he appears to be a target for drunk and stupid fans. 

Actually, it sounds like that incident you link (the banana one) may not have had any racial motivation:

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/2013/08/12/giants-fan-steps-forward-in-adam-jones-banana-incident/

[Otto von Ballpark]

On this current incident, the article says the bag of peanuts was thrown "toward him into the dugout". Not sure of the context, was it targeted at Jones or just at the Orioles dugout?

 

Obviously that's no excuse for the alleged epithets.  I hope that Jones just mis-heard things from a rowdy crowd, because it boggles the mind that someone would shout racial epithets in a public place in 2017 (with multiple black players representing the home team too, no less).  Although I guess nothing about racism makes a great deal of sense anyway.

[Vanimal46]

 

Actually, it sounds like that incident you link (the banana one) may not have had any racial motivation:

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/2013/08/12/giants-fan-steps-forward-in-adam-jones-banana-incident/

 

Ah, I didn't know the other side of the story... It was still a very stupid move for him to throw objects on the field. 

For some reason he appears to be a target for objects thrown on the field, racist remarks, etc... IIRC, he said both him and Hyun Soo Kim were hearing racist chants during the wild card game in Toronto. Along with Kim getting a beer thrown at him that game. 

[David HK]

I am sickened by this, and just wish I were surprised as well.  I read up on the Boston Globe reporting on this until I ran into their paywall-- and have to echo the words of a NAACP official, whose quote in effect was- this is something deeper.  Not only did the people in question feel they had the right to use racially offensive language, but they felt safe in doing so, in the company of their peers.  They felt safe enough, that nobody would rat them out to security, and that their comments would be generally acceptable to those around them.  

 

There was a further observation on the Mayor's comment that "we're better than this," sounding more like an appeal than a statement of fact.

 

That kind of behavior goes well beyond a couple of drunk dudes spouting off.  But, I guess, according to some, we've had a black President by now, so we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore.

 

Sickened.  Disgusted.  But not surprised.

[Vanimal46]

 

On this current incident, the article says the bag of peanuts was thrown "toward him into the dugout". Not sure of the context, was it targeted at Jones or just at the Orioles dugout?

 

Obviously that's no excuse for the alleged epithets.  I hope that Jones just mis-heard things from a rowdy crowd, because it boggles the mind that someone would shout racial epithets in a public place in 2017 (with multiple black players representing the home team too, no less).  Although I guess nothing about racism makes a great deal of sense anyway.

 

It should be mind-boggling because we're decent people who wouldn't think to do such a thing... And for the 99.9% of fans attending a baseball game, they also would not shout racial epithets. 

 

Unfortunately all it takes is that 0.1% to ruin the experience for everyone. 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I am sickened by this, and just wish I were surprised as well.  I read up on the Boston Globe reporting on this until I ran into their paywall-- and have to echo the words of a NAACP official, whose quote in effect was- this is something deeper.  Not only did the people in question feel they had the right to use racially offensive language, but they felt safe in doing so, in the company of their peers.  They felt safe enough, that nobody would rat them out to security, and that their comments would be generally acceptable to those around them.  

 

There was a further observation on the Mayor's comment that "we're better than this," sounding more like an appeal than a statement of fact.

 

That kind of behavior goes well beyond a couple of drunk dudes spouting off.  But, I guess, according to some, we've had a black President by now, so we don't have to worry about those kinds of things anymore.

 

Sickened.  Disgusted.  But not surprised.

 

There were other ejections from the stadium apparently, not sure what those were about, but it's quite possible that any folks engaging in racial taunts were reported and ejected (especially if it happened in the vicinity of the dugout, there are enough high rollers around there who aren't going to tolerate that disturbance).

 

I'm not sure we'll ever get details about those other ejections, though -- the team obviously doesn't want to admit there were racial taunts, and frankly they may not know exactly -- their security probably  received a report and then ejected those folks for a more general offense. Individual fans probably won't come forward and publicly confirm they heard any racial taunts either, because it could publicly identify them as responsible for the ejections.

[Vanimal46]

 

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

 

Yeah it's easy to say we'd call security behind a computer screen... In the moment, I think it would depend on who you're attending the game with. If I was with young kiddos, I'd call security so my kids wouldn't have to hear it. If I was with adult friends, I'd be disgusted, but not sure if I'd make the call. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

Racial slurs? If I was confident I heard them accurately, and I could identify the source accurately, yeah, I'd probably discreetly mention it to an usher to hopefully involve security.  (I think the Vikings had a number you could text to report such disruptions -- ah, football fans...)

 

Would be tough to meet those conditions in a standing-room type crowd, though.  Of course, I probably won't be in that standing room crowd with my kids.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

 

I would if my kids were with me.

 

That is if I didn't confront the person directly. Actually I'm quite confident I'd confront the person. All it would probably take is one person to stand up for the rest of the crowd who finds the behavior repulsive to turn against the bigots. Not that that would be the right approach necessarily.

 

[Squirrel]

This is a continuation of this:

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25685-red-sox-dont-like-machado/page-3?do=findComment&comment=609535

 

Because players seek retribution, so do the fans. If there weren't 'bad blood' stemming from a perceived wrong, would this be happening? This is when unwritten rules go awry and fans get into the act. I hope those fans aren't allowed back into Fenway for their part.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would if my kids were with me.

 

That is if I didn't confront the person directly. Actually I'm quite confident I'd confront the person. All it would probably take is one person to stand up for the rest of the crowd who finds the behavior repulsive to turn against the bigots. Not that that would be the right approach necessarily.

 

I'm fairly certain I'd tell the person that they were being an idiot, and should stop. Depends on how drunk, big, violent they seemed. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I would if my kids were with me.

 

That is if I didn't confront the person directly. Actually I'm quite confident I'd confront the person. All it would probably take is one person to stand up for the rest of the crowd who finds the behavior repulsive to turn against the bigots. Not that that would be the right approach necessarily.

 

It's hard when you have kids too, because if you get up to do that it can scare them.  And make you (and your kids) the target.  I had some idiots behind me at a Brewers game once and, thankfully, another fan who was not with his children went to security so that no parents with kids had to get up.  

 

I wanted to get up, but that only singles you and your family out for idiots like this, then you jeopardize the nastiness being directed at your children.  (I've seen that happen as a non-parent to a poor family)

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is a continuation of this:
http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25685-red-sox-dont-like-machado/page-3?do=findComment&comment=609535

Because players seek retribution, so do the fans. If there weren't 'bad blood' stemming from a perceived wrong, would this be happening? This is when unwritten rules go awry and fans get into the act. I hope those fans aren't allowed back into Fenway for their part.

 

This wouldn't shock me at all.  Violence and ugliness only begets itself.

[gunnarthor]

 

This is a continuation of this:
http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25685-red-sox-dont-like-machado/page-3?do=findComment&comment=609535

Because players seek retribution, so do the fans. If there weren't 'bad blood' stemming from a perceived wrong, would this be happening? This is when unwritten rules go awry and fans get into the act. I hope those fans aren't allowed back into Fenway for their part.

That's a hell of a lot of victim blaming and excuse making right there.  Racist *******s don't need a reason to be bigots and baseball players don't make them into bigots.  You are essentially saying that because the players made the series hotter, these idiots had no choice but to throw objects and use racial slurs.  You are saying that the fans wanted to hurt Adam Jones (but somehow not Weiters) because of retribution and using racial slurs was the way to do it.  How ****ing stupid is that?  You're excusing racism because the players caused the poor white fans emotions to get heated up.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

That's a hell of a lot of victim blaming and excuse making right there.  Racist *******s don't need a reason to be bigots and baseball players don't make them into bigots.  You are essentially saying that because the players made the series hotter, these idiots had no choice but to throw objects and use racial slurs.  You are saying that the fans wanted to hurt Adam Jones (but somehow not Weiters) because of retribution and using racial slurs was the way to do it.  How ****ing stupid is that?  You're excusing racism because the players caused the poor white fans emotions to get heated up.  

 

not that htey "had no choice". No one said that. I think "encouraged" would be the word. Or "accepted".

 

I don't know if I believe that or not, but it isn't pure BS, is it? Fans, especially some fans, think they are "part of the team", and that yelling at the opposition is helping the home team.

 

I don't see anyone excusing racist behavior at all. Point that out to me......

[Squirrel]

 

That's a hell of a lot of victim blaming and excuse making right there.  Racist *******s don't need a reason to be bigots and baseball players don't make them into bigots.  You are essentially saying that because the players made the series hotter, these idiots had no choice but to throw objects and use racial slurs.  You are saying that the fans wanted to hurt Adam Jones (but somehow not Weiters) because of retribution and using racial slurs was the way to do it.  How ****ing stupid is that?  You're excusing racism because the players caused the poor white fans emotions to get heated up.  

No, I'm not, not one iota. And I hope that they are never allowed back into Fenway.

 

But there is a correlation there whether or not you want to admit it. I'm not saying they decided to be racial bigots because of this ... they decided to act on their ugliness because of it.

 

Edit: Mike's answer above hits it ... encourage is a good word for this.

[woolywoolhouse]

 

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

 

Target Field has a text message option for reporting to security I believe, so you can do it more anonymously, or at least make it less-likely someone around you could hear you (if you're afraid of retaliation.) Not sure if security at an older stadium like Fenway is on-par with Target Field, but they can train a camera on a section of seats from up near the tv and radio announcing booths, and monitor action from there (wouldn't help them "hear" but they could see if fans were behaving unruly.)

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

No, I'm not, not one iota. And I hope that they are never allowed back into Fenway.

 

But there is a correlation there whether or not you want to admit it. I'm not saying they decided to be racial bigots because of this ... they decided to act on their ugliness because of it.

 

Edit: Mike's answer above hits it ... encourage is a good word for this.

 

To build on this and mike's excellent post: Don't we talk all the time in our current political environment how one's words and actions can create an environment in which some feel emboldened?

 

No one is excusing anyone, but pointing to what might have created an environment of hostility and retribution.

 

 

[Squirrel]

Looks like this is being addressed:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/red-sox-apologize-adam-jones-racist-taunts-details-emerge-172811981.html

 

"We’re also learning more details about the hostility at Fenway Park on Monday night, which was at least partially because of the ongoing feud between the Orioles and the Red Sox that started two weekends ago when Manny Machado injured Dustin Pedroia sliding into second base and the Red Sox retaliating by throwing at Machado’s head."

 

I'm not trying to justify anything, quite the opposite. Retaliation is never the answer, imo, especially since the Machado slide, imo, was far from intentional ... so all this starts with a mis-perception and Boston's pitcher took matters into his own hands. Once that happens the fans get in on it, too, and soon we've built an atmosphere where nothing good comes of it.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

I don't know. Would I call security because someone was yelling racial slurs? Maybe? I'm not certain what I'd do.

Now you know?

[ScrapTheNickname]

A side note: 7.7% of MLB in 2017 is made up of African-American players. This percentage is pretty consistent from year to year. In the NBA and NFL the number of African-American players is much higher. The choice of which game to play lies with the individual athlete. But it is a shame MLB is so under-represddnted.

 

Then on a "sider" note: I'm sure this is not quantifiable, but what is the racial breakdown of fans across the BIG sports in the US? I would say the fans are predominantly white - maybe 80%. Just a guess. Something to examine. Why aren't there more African-American fans, in other words? Ticket prices, perhaps. It just sort of bothers me to see such a predominance of white people in the stands.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Now you know?

 

i'd like to think I would. Would I do so if they said one slur? Two? If they were big and drunk and angry looking? 

 

But, anyone that thinks they know what they'd do in every social situation that potentially involves violence is lying to themselves.