Twins option Mejia to AAA, put Haley on DL

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Garver won't be starting next year either, hopefully. Should he stay down next year also?

 

Admittedly, that's a snarky way to ask the question, but if the argument is he shouldn't come up because he won't play every day, that means we don't see him until 2019 or 2020.

 

And yes, we have no idea how good his defense is. 

 

It's a fair question Mike, and I don't see it as snark

 

Garver has very little time in the high minors, so to some extent we have to move past SSS issues.  Garver is also likely not the best defender of the 3.  He's not a bad defender, but those are things he needs to work on. At some point, working with Castro on that will make sense, but I don't know if that point will be this year (excepting injury).  I'd argue next year he's probably the guy who can also function as an occasional 1B/PH to get his bat in the lineup a bit more.

 

The big knock on him this spring was how little time he had in the high minors.  He's add 1 month to that number.  One good month, yes.... but 1 month.  Personally, he's my number 2 in 2018 and slowly starts to supplant Castro as the 1 if he's doing well... but this year... just develop.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

that daily lineup was intact when they came (other than maybe Polanco at SS, but he'd be the backup to Escobar). What did the FO add to what was here? 

And really, Polanco is who just about anyone would have put there. Except maybe Falvey/Levine. If Adrianza hadn't been injured I'm not sure Polanco would have gotten that opportunity.

 

Other than Castro, this is what they were handed.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's a fair question Mike, and I don't see it as snark

 

Garver has very little time in the high minors, so to some extent we have to move past SSS issues.  Garver is also likely not the best defender of the 3.  He's not a bad defender, but those are things he needs to work on. At some point, working with Castro on that will make sense, but I don't know if that point will be this year (excepting injury).  I'd argue next year he's probably the guy who can also function as an occasional 1B/PH to get his bat in the lineup a bit more.

 

The big knock on him this spring was how little time he had in the high minors.  He's add 1 month to that number.  One good month, yes.... but 1 month.  Personally, he's my number 2 in 2018 and slowly starts to supplant Castro as the 1 if he's doing well... but this year... just develop.

 

such a well reasoned response, am I on the internet still?

[Doomtints]

 

I'll add to this.  Garver won't be starting every day if he's called up right now.

 

Garver has had very few at bats in the high minors, and while he's doing well, without question he could stand to learn a bit there I'm sure.

 

There's more to catching than offense.  It's an important defensive position, and there's very little defensively that he can do that we will see in his AAA box scores. 

 

He will get a trial at some point, and if he does well, Giminez will be gone. I'm not fretting over that just yet.

 

Garver would probably be up today if not for his 5 passed balls already this year.

 

Still, Garver could also learn from Castro, Santana, and the major league coaches. There isn't a "wrong answer" here when it comes to Garver, in my opinion. It's certainly not "obvious" that he should be in the minors, he can probably learn the same stuff here without costing the team any games.  If the team feels Gimenez is good enough, I'm fine with that for now....

[FormerMinnasotan]

If Berrios isn't going to be up anytime soon they might as well trade him as it is painfully obvious the new regime loves junk like Tepesch more than Berrios. When do they plan to bring Berrios back to the majors? After the All Star break? As a September call up? For crying out loud Trevor May got more slack as a starter after as disastrous of a rookie campaign as Berrios. They don't have a plan for him to except to rot in Rochester. Then what he becomes as disgruntled as Matt Garza was back in 2007? No matter the FO, they STILL suck at starting pitcher development, this is another case of it.

 

If Buxton can be allowed to sink or swim Berrios should too.

[Doomtints]

 

Hughes isn't going anywhere. No one eats a $35 mil contract.

 

Contracts eaten:

 

A-Rod:  $63M (possibly negotiated down, but high nevertheless)

Johan Santana:  $30M (this could be spun as incorrect by a troll, but this $30M number is low -- he earned a salary for a long time without being a member of the team and was eventually 'bought out')

Vernon Wells:  $21M

There would be zero shame in the Twins cutting Hughes.  Such things have been done before.  Buyouts are unusual but not impossible, and if the Twins eat the full amount in the end it just gets blamed on the previous guy in charge.  Not a problem.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Garver would probably be up today if not for his 5 passed balls already this year.

 

Still, Garver could also learn from Castro, Santana, and the major league coaches. There isn't a "wrong answer" here when it comes to Garver, in my opinion. It's certainly not "obvious" that he should be in the minors, he can probably learn the same stuff here without costing the team any games.  If the team feels Gimenez is good enough, I'm fine with that for now....

 

fair, but people keep saying "for now", and then next year it will be "for now"....as stated above, the goal posts move very often here.

 

At some point, you gotta call him up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

fair, but people keep saying "for now", and then next year it will be "for now"....as stated above, the goal posts move very often here.

 

At some point, you gotta call him up.

Absolutely. And if the team was 8-16, I'd be a lot more aggressive about call-ups.

 

But they're 13-11 and just half a game out of the divisional lead. I still want to see Garver, Berrios, Melotakis, Chargois, et al, but they need to perform better than the guys they're replacing.

 

And other than Berrios/Gibson/Tepesch (gag), I'm not sure that would happen.

 

Someone can certainly assist in the bullpen but with the Twins currently carrying nine relievers, I want to see who they cut before I demand the promotion of one of the prospects.

[Mike Sixel]

I am ready for Melo now, and for Tonkin and Breslow to be gone. As long as the manager will trust him.

 

I am ready for Berrios now.

 

I have said all along, I'd want Garver here by June if he's hitting. I want him to be MLB ready next year, when they might be legit competing. If he's a rookie next year, that's not so good.

 

I would think it likely that Burdi will be as good as most of the RP here, by June also.

 

Other than that? Once their AAA OF is healthy, I'd like DanSan gone, but anyone holding their breath on that is insane at this point.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Absolutely. And if the team was 8-16, I'd be a lot more aggressive about call-ups.

 

But they're 13-11 and just half a game out of the divisional lead. I still want to see Garver, Berrios, Melotakis, Chargois, et al, but they need to perform better than the guys they're replacing.

 

And other than Berrios/Gibson/Tepesch (gag), I'm not sure that would happen.

 

Someone can certainly assist in the bullpen but with the Twins currently carrying nine relievers, I want to see who they cut before I demand the promotion of one of the prospects.

Well, even in Rochester Berrios was preforming better than Tepesch. So why put him in instead of Berrios? It's like a pitcher like Tepesch (or Trevor May) can get some slack but none is afforded to Berrios. What does he have to do? Average under a walk per 9? Have an ERA under 1? Average 13 strike outs per 9? Have a WHIP under 0.75? It's like of all our youngsters the ONLY one who has to be "perfect" when he comes back is Berrios and that is a load of BS...

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well, even in Rochester Berrios was preforming better than Tepesch. So why put him in instead of Berrios? It's like a pitcher like Tepesch (or Trevor May) can get some slack but none is afforded to Berrios. What does he have to do? Average under a walk per 9? Have an ERA under 1? Average 13 strike outs per 9? Have a WHIP under 0.75? It's like of all our youngsters the ONLY one who has to be "perfect" when he comes back is Berrios and that is a load of BS...

Hey, I don't get the Tepesch thing any more than anybody else here.

 

My hope is that Berrios is working on something specific in Rochester that the front office feels will prevent him from being a decent MLB pitcher.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Hey, I don't get the Tepesch thing any more than anybody else here.

 

My hope is that Berrios is working on something specific in Rochester that the front office feels will prevent him from being a decent MLB pitcher.

Let's hope so. I just don't want to see Berrios turn into another Matt Garza (plenty of potential that got sidetracked by attitude issues). You want youngsters like Berrios feel like the Twins actually want him with them. I don't want another basket case pitching prospect handled just like Garza and Liriano.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Let's hope so. I just don't want to see Berrios turn into another Matt Garza (plenty of potential that got sidetracked by attitude issues). You want youngsters like Berrios feel like the Twins actually want him with them. I don't want another basket case pitching prospect handled just like Garza and Liriano.

From every report I've ever read, Berrios is a humble, hardworking guy who wants to succeed above all else. I doubt he'll develop a chip on his shoulder, particularly if the coaching staff is working with him to make him a better pitcher.

 

Will he get frustrated? Sure, probably, he's competitive. But once he gets the call, I suspect that frustration washes away in a hurry.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

...

Other than that? Once their AAA OF is healthy, I'd like DanSan gone, but anyone holding their breath on that is insane at this point.

I suspect that the reason Adrianza is playing OF in AAA is to let DanSan go when Adrianza in off the DL.

 

I also believe that had Adrianza not been injured he would have been our SS from day 1 and no one here would have any idea how well Polanco can play the position.

[FormerMinnasotan]

From every report I've ever read, Berrios is a humble, hardworking guy who wants to succeed above all else. I doubt he'll develop a chip on his shoulder, particularly if the coaching staff is working with him to make him a better pitcher.

 

Will he get frustrated? Sure, probably, he's competitive. But once he gets the call, I suspect that frustration washes away in a hurry.

I have heard that as well. I just don't want to get him to a point when he gets disgruntled. I mean the amount of innings he has pitched seems obsessive. I mean does he really need 1,000 innings (much less 900) of minor league ball to see if he is ready or not. Personally I like at this point a sink or swim approach, keeping the "kid gloves" on forever will make him as much of a mental midget on the mound as Kyle Gibson. I would rather have a gamer. I think Berrios is one, but he has to be allowed to be one. And I want to clarify I am not attacking you personally. I'm just frustrated by the FO's approach with Berrios.

[Linus]

I think it is this simple: they want to hang onto as many guys as they can to see who they want to keep. They have nowhere to send Tepesch and want to see what they have. He's the same age as Gibson.

 

Berrios will be up soon enough. Probably when they are confident they have identified the right pitchers to cut.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Contracts eaten:

 

A-Rod:  $63M (possibly negotiated down, but high nevertheless)

Johan Santana:  $30M (this could be spun as incorrect by a troll, but this $30M number is low -- he earned a salary for a long time without being a member of the team and was eventually 'bought out')

Vernon Wells:  $21M

There would be zero shame in the Twins cutting Hughes.  Such things have been done before.  Buyouts are unusual but not impossible, and if the Twins eat the full amount in the end it just gets blamed on the previous guy in charge.  Not a problem.

Perhaps I should rephrase then:  There is NO WAY the TWINS eat that much salary.  I think the largest salary they have eaten is $ 2 or 3 mil to Mike Lamb.

 

On a side note, can someone with the power vested in them change this thread name to a more generic "Twins roster moves discussion" or something like that?

[TheLeviathan]

 

The bullpen actually seems to be performing acceptably. Probably why there is no rushing people up. There was a panic for a week, but it's calmed down again.

 

And the main reason there hasn't been a change is the obvious candidate to come up (perhaps the only one) is hurt again. What would you have the Twins front office do?

 

I'm not necessarily saying right now there needs to be changes (apart from Berrios), what I am arguing is that if you believed on April 1 that the bullpen would be different by May 1, you're moving your goalposts to hide behind "rosters change sometime".

 

And that's fine, but you have to acknowledge that you're moving the target.  And it's important to go back and look at why we wanted changes on April 1st.  I'm not so sure those reasons (low upside, high downside) have changed all that much.  

 

I'd still rather have high upside/high downside than low upside/high downside.  And that appears to me to be the choice right now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I have heard that as well. I just don't want to get him to a point when he gets disgruntled. I mean the amount of innings he has pitched seems obsessive. I mean does he really need 1,000 innings (much less 900) of minor league ball to see if he is ready or not. Personally I like at this point a sink or swim approach, keeping the "kid gloves" on forever will make him as much of a mental midget on the mound as Kyle Gibson. I would rather have a gamer. I think Berrios is one, but he has to be allowed to be one. And I want to clarify I am not attacking you personally. I'm just frustrated by the FO's approach with Berrios.

No offense taken but just so you know, insults toward players and personnel are prohibited on the board (re: "mental midget").

 

As for the topic at hand, I agree that Berrios should be in the rotation based on the information I have available.

[nicksaviking]

 

On this very board, I read an article that said we were the second youngest at 25.8 years old. 

 

Whoo hoo! If our beloved site is being used for statistical confirmation that means we're legit! Right?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Sano is a regression ready to happen. Rod Carew batted .388 in 1977 and regressed the rest of his career. Santiago is a proven vet, the last few games do not define his career.

So he had a career year like every player ever?

[drjim]

 

I'm not necessarily saying right now there needs to be changes (apart from Berrios), what I am arguing is that if you believed on April 1 that the bullpen would be different by May 1, you're moving your goalposts to hide behind "rosters change sometime".

 

And that's fine, but you have to acknowledge that you're moving the target.  And it's important to go back and look at why we wanted changes on April 1st.  I'm not so sure those reasons (low upside, high downside) have changed all that much.  

 

I'd still rather have high upside/high downside than low upside/high downside.  And that appears to me to be the choice right now.

 

I didn't think the bullpen would necessarily be different on May 1. The significant change I thought possible/likely was Chargois, and he's hurt, so no way that's happening. I can't speak for everyone.

 

I want upside guys too, but Chargois is hurt, Melotakis has a k/9 of 6 in AA, and Burdi pitched a total of 3 innings last year, so it's going to take some time with him. There's no one there right now.

[drjim]

 

I am ready for Melo now, and for Tonkin and Breslow to be gone. As long as the manager will trust him.

 

I am ready for Berrios now.

 

I have said all along, I'd want Garver here by June if he's hitting. I want him to be MLB ready next year, when they might be legit competing. If he's a rookie next year, that's not so good.

 

I would think it likely that Burdi will be as good as most of the RP here, by June also.

 

Other than that? Once their AAA OF is healthy, I'd like DanSan gone, but anyone holding their breath on that is insane at this point.

 

Berrios I agree, but what about Melotakis right now makes you think he's ready to do well in the bigs?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Given how bad Berrios was last season, I'm not sure this is the right reaction just yet.  I don't pretend to be excited if Tepesch is the call here, nor do I pretend to know what exactly it was that would have made a batting tee about as effective as Berrios last season.  

 

What I do know is that something was wrong.  Perhaps it was tipping pitches (certainly makes sense) or something else altogether, or more likely a combination of several things.  One month in AAA, even it was spectacular, may not necessarily be the cure for all things that ail Berrios

And one more spectacular month in AAA probably isn't the cure either.  What feedback is Berrios going to get down there to figure out how to solve the problem?

 

If Berrios wasn't going to get the call after this kind of month and a rotation opening, then why not Mejia again? Or Duffey?  The MLB starting group has had just one real injury this spring -- Trevor May's -- and we're dipping down to Tepesch level filler in the first week of May already?

 

Even if you accept that Berrios might not be ready to come back yet, it's hard not to think the front office is dropping the ball here somehow.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Berrios I agree, but what about Melotakis right now makes you think he's ready to do well in the bigs?

 

It's more....I know what Tonkin and Breslow are, and the Twins' scouts have, imo, struggled with knowing when/if guys are ready. I want MLB data this year, so that next year, when they might be legit, they have guys they trust and guys they have data on. I would prefer that process start. 

 

IMO, having a bullpen full of guys w/o options makes it really hard to manage a MLB bullpen.

[USAFChief]

Whether it's because Berrios really isn't "ready," or the front office is erring, either way it's exceptionally disappointing.

 

Either way.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Great point. One injury in, and we are already seeing Tepesch.....Ugh. Look, it might or might not be right, but this is disappointing.

 

edit: look one post up....disappointing.

[drjim]

I don't understand the "I want MLB data" point for someone like Meoltakis. I'm pretty sure they have a good idea what they have. Throwing him into the bigs in early May doesn't do anything.

[yarnivek1972]

 

I didn't think the bullpen would necessarily be different on May 1. The significant change I thought possible/likely was Chargois, and he's hurt, so no way that's happening. I can't speak for everyone.

 

I want upside guys too, but Chargois is hurt, Melotakis has a k/9 of 6 in AA, and Burdi pitched a total of 3 innings last year, so it's going to take some time with him. There's no one there right now.

 

I think you're seeing sample size come into play a little.  He started out getting a lot of strikeouts this season.  However, he hasn't recorded a single strikeout in his last 4 outings, covering 5 IP.  Last year at AA, his K per 9 was over 11.

 

Melotakis has been in AA since mid 2014, missing one season with an injury.  He's more than proven he is ready for the next step.  He should have started this season in AAA.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't understand the "I want MLB data" point for someone like Meoltakis. I'm pretty sure they have a good idea what they have. Throwing him into the bigs in early May doesn't do anything.

 

Well, what do you think of the data they collected on Berrios last year in the majors? Anyone think they thought that was what they'd get last year when they called him up?