Why no Park?

[akmanak]

I was just curious what the reasoning on why he was sent down in place of Grossman? Are we that hurting for outfielders?

[Squirrel]

I was just curious what the reasoning on why he was sent down in place of Grossman? Are we that hurting for outfielders?

I think we are all as baffled as you, but there is lots of discussion about it in this thread, if you want to read through it.

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25367-article-surprises-mark-twins-opening-day-roster/

 

And this thread, too.

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25390-souhan-killing-my-optimism-buzz/

[DJSim22]

 

I was just curious what the reasoning on why he was sent down in place of Grossman? Are we that hurting for outfielders?

 

We don't need 300+ strikeouts between Sano and Park? 

 

They think he still needs to work on parts of his game, probably catching up to an above average fastball.  There is a reason they took him off the 40 man two months ago.  They also didn't sign him, so they are not married to idea of playing him. 

 

Grossman takes plenty of quality at bats, works counts more, gets on base.  I like Grossman more at DH and as a PH than as a regular in the field.  If anyone is hurt for two weeks he can play if anyone is seriously hurt, I would hope they call someone up to play in the outfield. 

[ashbury]

I view it as purely a resource stewardship issue. Park made it through off-season waivers by dint of some luck and is off of the 40-man. Putting him back on the 40-man (so that he can be on the 25-man active roster we're discussing) would mean exposing someone else to waivers. A spot ought to open soon enough, for instance by a long-term injury to someone. It's a long season, and in principle your 40-man is what you have, in order to tide you over through September. This move in effect gives us 41.

 

Even if we are all in agreement that the roster is littered with guys who would be no big loss, it's still good practice to not trigger a loss at all. "Look after the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves", like most cliches, should not be carried to extremes, but does contain a kernel of truth.

 

The present roster still bears earmarks from the previous FO regime. I will think less highly of the new bosses if a year from now a similar 40-man issue arises due to having too many marginal players needing protection.

[jimbo92107]

I see the 40-man logic, but I still don't like it. Park is coming off a very strong spring showing. His bat looks hot, and this Twins team can use all the runs it can find. Hopefully something will happen that allows Park back into the lineup. Park's got pop!

[drjim]

A year is probably not long enough to turn over the 40 man in a significant way.

 

The obvious move to get Park on the 40/25 man would have been to return Haley.

[beckmt]

 

A year is probably not long enough to turn over the 40 man in a significant way.

The obvious move to get Park on the 40/25 man would have been to return Haley.

That would have encouraged Molly to misuse and overuse his pen again.  There are a fair number of players who will not be on this team or on the 40 man by midseason.  No need to lose someone now and then have an issue when Vargas or Boshers come off the DL(though both are likely to be optioned).. New FO wants to see what they have, and they feel no need to rush players into bad situations.  I do not agree, but understand the logic.  Plus Molly is managing on a one year contract.  Do think he should have been fired, but do not want him to have excuses of lack of help from the FO when he loses. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So confused.

[jud6312]

 

We don't need 300+ strikeouts between Sano and Park? 

 

They think he still needs to work on parts of his game, probably catching up to an above average fastball.  There is a reason they took him off the 40 man two months ago.  They also didn't sign him, so they are not married to idea of playing him. 

 

Grossman takes plenty of quality at bats, works counts more, gets on base.  I like Grossman more at DH and as a PH than as a regular in the field.  If anyone is hurt for two weeks he can play if anyone is seriously hurt, I would hope they call someone up to play in the outfield. 

Let's not kid ourselves about Robbie ... he strikes out plenty on his own - about 1 out of every 4 PA last season and about the same this spring. His lone value is his ability to take a walk, although was way down in the second half last year, too.

 

Without that, he's little more than a platoon DH and PH because of his awful fielding.

 

He's essentially Danny Santana without the speed or defensive flexibility (as in the ability to fail all over the field).

 

 

[ThejacKmp]

Do we have a concept that Vargas isn't going to be back soon? He was getting at bats in the Rochester vs. Twins exhibition game yesterday. If Vargas is going to be back after the first series of the season, then we're framing this wrong. The Twins ultimately chose Vargas over Park - they're carrying 13 pitchers for the first series because they're rigthly worried about a few starters but once Vargas is ready, he'll be back up and likely take the place of Duffey, who will head to AAA to start.

At that point, this gnashing of teeth over Park is going to seem pretty overwrought. Choosing Vargas over Park is eminently defensible, especially if you look at Spring Training with a skeptical eye like you should. Park looks good but Vargas is younger, a switch hitter and showed promise in actual regular season games last year.

Let's give the FO a break on this for a week or so. And Souhan is generally a moron, we should remember that.

[DaveW]

Occam's razor would suggest that the worst team in baseball over the last 6 years continues to make poor moves when it comes to personnel.

[drjim]

For some more context I highly recommend the start of Saturday Morning Sportstalk with Reusse.

 

A couple of takeaways:

 

Park never had a chance no matter how well he played, barring several injuries. There's a reason he was removed from 40 man earlier.

 

Vargas will be back really quickly, assuming he doesn't completely tank in AAA.

 

The only roster decision Molitor "won" was keeping Grossman.

 

Otherwise roster is 100% Falvey/Levine. Primary motivation was to keep as many assets as possible, especially in regards to Tonkin and Haley.

 

Finally, Reusse said there were all kinds of employees in their mid-20s walking around he didn't know. There has probably been a lot of hiring we haven't heard about.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I doubt it. Reusse is just trolling at this point in his life.

[drjim]

I doubt it. Reusse is just trolling at this point in his life.

I'm not so sure, he was actually quite humble about it, acknowledging that the new style is pretty unfamiliar to him. He was there basically the entire camp, talked to a lot of people.

 

And where exactly is the trolling in those statements?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The only roster decision Molitor "won" was keeping Grossman.

I'm not dissing you the poster for relaying Reusse's opinion. It just doesn't wash. In other words, Molitor did his best to convince Falvey to DFA Danny Santana, but Falvey refused.

[drjim]

I'm not dissing you the poster for relaying Reusse's opinion. It just doesn't wash. In other words, Molitor did his best to convince Falvey to DFA Danny Santana, but Falvey refused.

Or everyone wanted him. They probably have a higher opinion of Santana than we do as posters.

[drjim]

And keeping Santana keeps with the larger strategy of not risking the loss of any assets.

[DJSim22]

 

Do we have a concept that Vargas isn't going to be back soon? He was getting at bats in the Rochester vs. Twins exhibition game yesterday. If Vargas is going to be back after the first series of the season, then we're framing this wrong. The Twins ultimately chose Vargas over Park - they're carrying 13 pitchers for the first series because they're rigthly worried about a few starters but once Vargas is ready, he'll be back up and likely take the place of Duffey, who will head to AAA to start.

At that point, this gnashing of teeth over Park is going to seem pretty overwrought. Choosing Vargas over Park is eminently defensible, especially if you look at Spring Training with a skeptical eye like you should. Park looks good but Vargas is younger, a switch hitter and showed promise in actual regular season games last year.

Let's give the FO a break on this for a week or so. And Souhan is generally a moron, we should remember that.

 

I think you are right on all accounts, unless they drop a different pitcher. 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And keeping Santana keeps with the larger strategy of not risking the loss of any assets.

I am impressed and actually a little encouraged they didn't let go of any pitchers yet, but the explanation doesn't hold as far as position players go.

[jorgenswest]

It probably isn't wise to make decisions based on spring training numbers. A few months ago no team wanted Park. Let him show great plate discipline in AAA over 30 games and then bring him up and play him regularly.

[Ultima Ratio]

No answer can be given to the OP, just responses.

[Vanimal46]

And keeping Santana keeps with the larger strategy of not risking the loss of any assets.

I agree that this is the strategy they're utilizing. However, I don't think this is the right way to operate... This organization is littered with so many middling players that haven't moved the organization forward. There should be no fear of losing guys like Tonkin, D Santana, Vargas, etc.

[drjim]

I agree that this is the strategy they're utilizing. However, I don't think this is the right way to operate... This organization is littered with so many middling players that haven't moved the organization forward. There should be no fear of losing guys like Tonkin, D Santana, Vargas, etc.

I don't disagree, though an argument can be made for each of those 3 to be kept. We'll see Vargas pretty soon I think. And I imagine much of the roster will be scrubbed throughout the year, they're just delaying decisions as long as they can.

 

In addition to keeping assets, the front office seems to think little of the future of Park, for better or worse.

[drjim]

No answer can be given to the OP, just responses.

It's not especially complicated. For whatever reason the front office doesn't think much of Park and don't care about his spring training stats.

[Mike Sixel]

And, while I don't share their opinion, I am glad they didn't change their mind based on a few spring training games....

[Loosey]

 

It's not especially complicated. For whatever reason the front office doesn't think much of Park and don't care about his spring training stats.

Along those same lines of FO not caring much for him, if he produces in AAA and then for 2-3 months back in Minnesota is he traded for young pitching at the deadline to a team that needs power?

[drjim]

Along those same lines of FO not caring much for him, if he produces in AAA and then for 2-3 months back in Minnesota is he traded for young pitching at the deadline to a team that needs power?

I imagine they'd unload him for almost anything at this point.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm indifferent about whether Park or Vargas should be backing up first base, but one of them needs to. Either one allows for more flexibility than having Danny Santana around, the guy who can "do it all."

 

By the way, Cardinals placed Jose Martinez on the 25-man based mainly on having a good spring training at the plate. He hit a 9th-inning double and scored the game winning run last night. Just one game but let's not mock those who are wondering why Park wasn't added to the team based on his spring training.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

It's not especially complicated. For whatever reason the front office doesn't think much of Park and don't care about his spring training stats.

I think we agree.  There is no good answer.

[Darius]

I don't agree with it. Seeing as the team is relatively power deficient at the "traditional" positions (1B, RF, maybe even LF), you have to make up for it elsewhere. They're doing that at 2B, 3B, but I'm not sure it's enough.

 

This team has plenty of guys to get one base (Mauer, Dozier, Polanco, Kepler, Sano has great discipline, etc). They don't need a Grossman. They need a guy at DH that can occasionally bring one of these guys home from 1st base.

 

Seeing as the pitching is likely going to be terrible again, If you're serious about at least trying to win games, you need to put up a lot of crooked numbers. Grossman at DH isn't going to do that. If you're going to have a guy who is worthless defensively, at least pick the guy who could hit 30 bombs for you. A two-out walk with nobody on in the late innings against a dominant 'pen is generally worth almost nothing.