HYPOTHETICAL: How much is the Twins franchise worth?

[Vanimal46]

Zenser was kind enough to share on the 2016-2017 MLB Off-Season thread that Marlins owner Jeff Loria is close to selling the team for $1.6 Billion. 

 

Clearly there haven't been any rumors to say the Pohlad's would sell. And frankly, teams aren't sold nearly as much in baseball than basketball and the other sports. 

Are the Twins worth more or less than the $1.6 Billion price tag that Loria is getting?

[Mike Sixel]

The Twins' tv revenue is estimated at 37MM last year, the Marlins at 20MM. The Twins have more attendance, I'd guess more revenue there also.

 

FL is sexier than MN.

 

If the marlins are worth 1.6B, I'd guess the Twins are worth closer to 2B.....EXCEPT

 

using only dollars, Forbes estimated the Marlins to be worth around $675MM....

 

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/#tab:overall

 

so, ya, I don't think this is rational at all....

[Steve Lein]

More. Bigger Market. Better Stadium.

 

$1.6BIL seems like an incredibly high number for the Marlins, though. Doesn't line up with Forbes as Mike mentions.

[Mike Sixel]

 

More. Bigger Market. Better Stadium.

 

smaller tv deal, by a lot. lower attendance, by a lot.

 

market size is a proxy for revenue, but the real test is revenue. 

[nicksaviking]

Well let me give you my two cents....

 

 

End of joke.

[Steve Lein]

 

smaller tv deal, by a lot. lower attendance, by a lot.

 

market size is a proxy for revenue, but the real test is revenue. 

 

Yeah, I was inferring that Market and Stadium apply to those things. 

[Vanimal46]

 

The Twins' tv revenue is estimated at 37MM last year, the Marlins at 20MM. The Twins have more attendance, I'd guess more revenue there also.

 

FL is sexier than MN.

 

If the marlins are worth 1.6B, I'd guess the Twins are worth closer to 2B.....EXCEPT

 

using only dollars, Forbes estimated the Marlins to be worth around $675MM....

 

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/#tab:overall

 

so, ya, I don't think this is rational at all....

Well, as we know buying sports teams for most is a hobby, not a business. And the negotiations for buying a franchise are probably irrational between both parties. 

Maybe if all things are equal, and 30 MLB teams are up for sale at the same time, then maybe it's worth $675 MM. But since maybe 1 sports team is up for sale every couple of years, there's competition between billionaires driving up the price. 

[gunnarthor]

Isn't part of the Marlins appeal that the new owner can con someone into giving him a sweet new stadium/tv deal?  Which is why the asking price is so high?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Isn't part of the Marlins appeal that the new owner can con someone into giving him a sweet new stadium/tv deal?  Which is why the asking price is so high?

 

don't they have a new stadium? I mean, it is all of 5 years old.....

 

the tv deal? Maybe, but who is going to sit inside in FL and watch tv, when you can be at the beach/pool/bar?

[gunnarthor]

 

don't they have a new stadium? I mean, it is all of 5 years old.....

 

the tv deal? Maybe, but who is going to sit inside in FL and watch tv, when you can be at the beach/pool/bar?

Yeah, you're right.  They just built that stadium for the 2012 year. 

[Vanimal46]

Looking back at the most recent baseball franchise purchases, this $1.6 B figure is insane... 

The Dodgers were purchased in 2012 for $2 B... That makes sense as they're an iconic franchise, yuge market, etc. 

The Rangers were purchased in 2010 or 2011 for $593 MM... Fairly large market, kind of crappy stadium

 

The Astros were purchased in 2010 or 2011 for $610 MM ... Newish stadium, large market

 

And the Cubbies were purchased in 2009 for $700 MM ... iconic franchise, yuge market, old stadium (pre-renovations) 

Supply and demand drives the price, but I'd sure as hell would have bought the Cubbies over the Marlins if I were a billionaire. 

[Thrylos]

 

Well, as we know buying sports teams for most is a hobby, not a business. And the negotiations for buying a franchise are probably irrational between both parties. 

Maybe if all things are equal, and 30 MLB teams are up for sale at the same time, then maybe it's worth $675 MM. But since maybe 1 sports team is up for sale every couple of years, there's competition between billionaires driving up the price. 

 

Exactly.  It is a supply vs demand thing.  Not much supply of MLB teams for sale

 

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

 

Supply and demand drives the price, but I'd sure as hell would have bought the Cubbies over the Marlins if I were a billionaire. 

 

The Cubs are not for sale in 2017... The Marlins are.  The only team that is for sale potentially.

[Vanimal46]

 

The Cubs are not for sale in 2017... The Marlins are.  The only team that is for sale potentially.

Yeah I get that. It's just crazy to see how much franchise values have grown in just a short amount of time. Or desperate billionaires are to get in on the cash cow in sports. Not sure which one is right. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah I get that. It's just crazy to see how much franchise values have grown in just a short amount of time. Or desperate billionaires are to get in on the cash cow in sports. Not sure which one is right. 

 

Very mature reply. 

 

Uh, none are. That money could do  a lot of good....

[howeda7]

Theoretically, the Twins and Marlins would be worth similar amounts. But I'd peg that between $600-900 million. The Pohlad's won't sell until the penalty related to the new stadium goes away if then (2020 I believe)

[jimmer]

 

Zenser was kind enough to share on the 2016-2017 MLB Off-Season thread that Marlins owner Jeff Loria is close to selling the team for $1.6 Billion. 

 

Clearly there haven't been any rumors to say the Pohlad's would sell. And frankly, teams aren't sold nearly as much in baseball than basketball and the other sports. 

Are the Twins worth more or less than the $1.6 Billion price tag that Loria is getting?

With Target Field bought and paid for mostly by taxpayers, Twins are worth a huge amount.  Forbes has the value at 910M and Marlins at 675.

[Riverbrian]

1.6 Billion is the price you pay when you to try to convince someone who wasn't planning on selling to actually sell. 

 

 

[theBOMisthebomb]

Yeah, you're right.  They just built that stadium for the 2012 year.

 

That's about the time the Braves are ramping up to build a new stadium.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That's about the time the Braves are ramping up to build a new stadium.

Rumor has it the Braves are in talks to build 29 additional stadiums so they have comfortable places to practice while on the road.

[Doomtints]

Hoover's/Dun & Bradstreet has revenue (annual sales) figures of nearly every US company and these figures are usually pretty close to reality.

 

I looked up what some MLB teams are claiming their revenue is.  They are comical. 

 

Here are a few:

 

Twins: $48M

Royals: $9.9M

Indians: $19M

Tigers: $238M

White Sox: $1M

 

To be clear, this is not net profit. These numbers are what these teams are reporting as income.

 

The Dodgers actually share their net worth with D&B and not just their revenue. They claim the ball club is worth $308,000. Your nearest corner gas station is probably worth more.

I'm thinking all of this is simply illustrating that sports teams try to hide their real value and real income from the government, for various reasons. It's hard to get the subsidies sports teams enjoy if the numbers show the truth, which is that MLB and NFL teams are usually among the post profitable companies in each state.

[Doomtints]

Also, The Marlins claim $49M in annual sales, very close to the Twins.

[ashbury]

I rely on the Forbes list of franchises at

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/

 

They list franchise value, revenue, and operating income. All the revenues are $193M or higher. A few of the teams claim operating losses rather than income.