Dozier Trade Discussion Thread

[TheLeviathan]

I would hope we could just conclude "things didn't work out" and not go into respective camps defending or attacking them.  That isn't going to happen, however.  

 

I'll say this now, I don't need to know what was on the table to think any non-trade is a failure at some level.  These guys need to find a way to make this happen either by convincing the Dodgers to give up more or taking a good offer when it's on the table.  For our chances to succeed we have to find a way to make this happen.

[jimmer]

 

I'll say this now, I don't need to know what was on the table to think any non-trade is a failure at some level.  These guys need to find a way to make this happening either by convincing the Dodgers to give up more or taking a good offer when it's on the table.  For our chances to succeed we have to find a way to make this happen.

exactly.

[AZTwin]

The best rebuttal for not having the durability to log innings is the injury excuse. "Well he logged 114 innings the year before and would have logged more last year but then he got shoulder fatigue". Lol. That's the whole point. Some guys just don't have what it takes to be starters in the MLB. No problem with that. He can still have a role. And hopefully that role is on the dodgers

[darin617]

 

Yep. The Dozier potential deal is pretty much dead. Doders are already looking elsewhere for options. That's okay they tried to low ball the Twins the whole time with JDL and junk. I don't blame Twins management one bit for walking away. Even if Dozier regresses a bit he's still worth more than an oft injured JDL who has only pitched more than 100 innings once in the minors.

 

Is everyone actually serious that they think signing a 28 yr old 2nd baseman to a minor league contract that has not played professionally since 2014 is the Dodgers answer to 2017?

 

They are clearly going to try to use it as leverage towards any deal. The Twins FO is not that dumb to not see that a mile away. If JDL & Alvarez are truly on the table, take that deal with a 20th overall or so prospect and end this madness.

[darin617]

 

He's only broken 100 innings in a season once (2015).

 

Same could be said for Julio Urias who everyone feels is an ace in the near future.
 

[gunnarthor]

Same could be said for Julio Urias who everyone feels is an ace in the near future.

 

Isn't Urias 19?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well, we will never know. Unless you are a fly on that wall, you will never know. And I honestly don't think we can make that assumption. Seriously. I think that's a pretty serious accusation.

A lot of posters here have been repeatedly saying they hope the new front office does exactly this (pass on trading him if very high expectations are not meant, specifically invoking the Sale and Eaton returns).

[drjim]

I would hope we could just conclude "things didn't work out" and not go into respective camps defending or attacking them. That isn't going to happen, however.

 

I'll say this now, I don't need to know what was on the table to think any non-trade is a failure at some level. These guys need to find a way to make this happen either by convincing the Dodgers to give up more or taking a good offer when it's on the table. For our chances to succeed we have to find a way to make this happen.

I agree it would be a failure on some level, but your solution leaves a little to be desired.

[darin617]

 

I think we should probably base it on what has been reported by trusted sources - which right now means a Dozier for De Leon swap with either nothing else (LEN and Nightengale) or insignificant second pieces involved.

 

Trusted sources? What is that supposed to mean. All people who are not from either front office are throwing darts unless they have a person on the inside leaking them information. Most of the time that is fed information trying to troll the other team.

[gunnarthor]

I would hope we could just conclude "things didn't work out" and not go into respective camps defending or attacking them. That isn't going to happen, however.

 

I'll say this now, I don't need to know what was on the table to think any non-trade is a failure at some level. These guys need to find a way to make this happen either by convincing the Dodgers to give up more or taking a good offer when it's on the table. For our chances to succeed we have to find a way to make this happen.

If the FO doesn't think the return is appropriate, it shouldn't make the deal. Worrying about what the team looks like in 2019 is not a reason to make a trade now.

[darin617]

 

Isn't Urias 19?

 

He is 20.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I agree it would be a failure on some level, but your solution leaves a little to be desired.

 

Well, I wasn't offering it as a solution so much as a range of possibilities for why this fell apart.  I won't speculate on why it didn't happen, but I will judge the outcome as a failure.  (And I'll do that without holding it against our new FO)

[drjim]

Well, I wasn't offering it as a solution so much as a range of possibilities for why this fell apart. I won't speculate on why it didn't happen, but I will judge the outcome as a failure. (And I'll do that without holding it against our new FO)

I don't accept that. Way too balanced.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If the FO doesn't think the return is appropriate, it shouldn't make the deal. Worrying about what the team looks like in 2019 is not a reason to make a trade now.

 

It should be.  Along with a lot of other probabilities about the future.  We're trying to build a winner and that's going to require risk taking on upside.

 

They'll have ample time, if they fail here, to show that it wasn't on them.  I can still judge the non-trade of Dozier as a failure for this offseason.  To me, it is the number one priority by a mile.

[AZTwin]

Same could be said for Julio Urias who everyone feels is an ace in the near future.

 

Urias pitched for 123 innings last year as a 19 year old. He still has time to be stretched out. At almost 25, it's more of a what you see is what you get

[Otto von Ballpark]

The best rebuttal for not having the durability to log innings is the injury excuse. "Well he logged 114 innings the year before and would have logged more last year but then he got shoulder fatigue". Lol. That's the whole point. Some guys just don't have what it takes to be starters in the MLB. No problem with that. He can still have a role. And hopefully that role is on the dodgers

FYI, De Leon's shoulder issue was at the beginning of the year. He wasn't shut down for fatigue or anything.

 

He might eventually prove unable to handle a greater workload, but right now, there is no evidence that he can't. Just an absence of evidence that he can.

[darin617]

The sad part is the Twins probably had a very nice offer from LA during the winter meetings. The Twins would not be to blame when they hoped more teams would get involved. When the winter meetings ended the Dodgers figured out they were the only serious bidder they turned to hard ball and have made the Twins sweat for a long time waiting for them to cave in. That would explain the JDL for Dozier offer that has been put out.

[snepp]

 

He is 20.

 

20.149

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Well, I wasn't offering it as a solution so much as a range of possibilities for why this fell apart.  I won't speculate on why it didn't happen, but I will judge the outcome as a failure.  (And I'll do that without holding it against our new FO)

 

That's fine... it's one thing to note they failed to trade Dozier (which if it happened, they did)... It's completely different though to assume that had this really good offer on the table and chose to reject it otherwise (which are what Chitown and I are saying).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

So let's all do everyone a favor if he doesn't get traded and not make assumptions on whether or not the FO walked away from perfectly good offers or bad ones...

 

Too late, apparently. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

That's fine... it's one thing to note they failed to trade Dozier (which if it happened, they did)... It's completely different though to assume that had this really good offer on the table and chose to reject it otherwise (which are what Chitown and I and every reasonable person are saying).

fify

[Squirrel]

 

A lot of posters here have been repeatedly saying they hope the new front office does exactly this (pass on trading him if very high expectations are not meant, specifically invoking the Sale and Eaton returns).

I wouldn't  say a lot are not claiming high expectations. Some, but not a lot. I think there are many who are claiming we need equal worth or not at all. All of this is a matter of opinion and perspective. Personally, I think we need to trade him and I'll be disappointed if a deal can't be worked out. But I also don't think it betters us if we don't get enough. Just for DeLeon? Are you saying you make that deal because we need to make a deal, any deal? And if that's all we are offered, we are remiss to not take it, because we need to trade Dozier regardless? And if we don't, it's because our FO is derelict in their responsibilities? Really? Because that's what the accusation is. I think if a deal can't be worked out, it's because a deal can't be worked out. Period. I can't judge it because I don't know what all truly was and wasn't involved. No one does.

[Squirrel]

 

Well, I wasn't offering it as a solution so much as a range of possibilities for why this fell apart.  I won't speculate on why it didn't happen, but I will judge the outcome as a failure.  (And I'll do that without holding it against our new FO)

I can accept that. I don't know if I completely agree with calling it a failure, but I can accept that perspective.

[CiabanItReal]

 

The best rebuttal for not having the durability to log innings is the injury excuse. "Well he logged 114 innings the year before and would have logged more last year but then he got shoulder fatigue". Lol. That's the whole point. Some guys just don't have what it takes to be starters in the MLB. No problem with that. He can still have a role. And hopefully that role is on the dodgers

Except he had shown a consistent year to year increase in durability until last year when he had two separate non related minor injuries that didn't require any surgery, and then went on the throw over 100 innings without any reduction in production.

What are we basing him not "having what it takes" on anyway, a one time ankle sprain and a one time sore shoulder? 

[CiabanItReal]

 

FYI, De Leon's shoulder issue was at the beginning of the year. He wasn't shut down for fatigue or anything.

He might eventually prove unable to handle a greater workload, but right now, there is no evidence that he can't. Just an absence of evidence that he can.

But absence of evidence is all we have to criticize him for, the problem is he's been to productive, and his stuff is to good to legitimately criticize, so we have to find SOMETHING to bash on him for, and all there is are "1) His 4 starts in the majors weren't good, 2)He hasn't proven that he can throw 200 innings yet"

And the first one is way to easy to poke holes into since it's obviously way to small of a sample to draw any meaningful conclusions from. I mean think of all the players that had a lousy cup of coffee and went on to have a great career, or vice versa.

So the only narrative that can be created is "he hasn't thrown 200 innings=he never will"

[laloesch]

I will say though that if Alvarez, JDL and AAAA filler were ever on the table i'd consider this a failure on the part of the Twins FO.

[ashbury]

20.149

 

 

Yesterday you said 20.148.

 

Which is it ?!?!?

[jimmer]

So, if we don't trade Dozier for pitching, how are we improving our rotation? 

[ashbury]

Moderator's note: Everybody, a rehashing of the history of this poster and his rumor is not needed here. We know there have been false alarms. This might be one, too. TD isn't endorsing any particular rumor at present. On the other hand, members are allowed to post, as long as it looks sincere and not just to stir up trouble. The Twins FO has also signaled that an end to this process is near. Let's be tolerant.

In case folks missed it, please review the above post from about a day ago.

[laloesch]

So, if we don't trade Dozier for pitching, how are we improving our rotation?

 

They are gambling on Hughes recovering to what he once was, Santiago pitching closer to his career averages pre 2016, May stepping back into the rotation and pitching effectively, Berrios taking off and never looking back, Duffey developing his changeup, etc. Meija as backup.