Berrios, Duffy Optioned to AAA

[nokomismod]

 

 

This decade  is turning into the late Nineteen Nighties all over again with studio non-competitive baseball, and  little to no light at the end of the tunnel.

I really hope this is the late 90's era of the Twins approaching. It sure seems like 1995 still.

What happened in the late 90's was Brad Radke was good, Mays came along, Knoblauch was traded and a commitment to youth happened.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

On the bright side, Suzuki is still around to groom these young pitchers.  I can't imagine how badly this could have gone if they would have traded him in July

Yeah, without the steadying influence of Suzuki, our pitching staff could have had the worst ERA in MLB for August.  But thanks to Kurt, we're only second worst, at 5.81.  (Also thanks to the Diamondbacks, at 6.15!)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yeah, without the steadying influence of Suzuki, our pitching staff could have had the worst ERA in MLB for August.  But thanks to Kurt, we're only second worst, at 5.81.  (Also thanks to the Diamondbacks, at 6.15!)

 

Chris Hermann.....sleeper agent.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Chris Hermann.....sleeper agent.

Actually Herrmann has been on the DL over a month, preserving his small sample OPS excellence!

 

And FWIW, he has by far the best "catcher ERA" of Arizona's 3 primary catchers this year, which is obviously not a terribly meaningful stat without context, but it's worth noting that Herrman has caught a fairly proportional share of Shelby Miller's 7.14 ERA innings, and also Herrmann is the only one of the three not to catch Greinke this year.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&team=ARI&year=2016#catch

[karcherd]

Where is the breakdown in developing our prospects.  If Berrios mechanics were off, why was this not addressed at the minor league level or is it a question of preference of the major league staff.  We have been hearing about this all year, they have to make changes to someones mechanics or batting stance.  Why not let the player go with what got them to the big leagues.  How do other organizations handle their prospects?

[howieramone2]

 

Neil Allen most certainly is at least "part" of the problem, the Twins have some of the worst pitching in all of baseball, not one guy has "improved" under Allen's watch.

Pressly is part of the core going forward and Kintzler said we were the only team that even offered him a tryout. I would say that's two.

[howieramone2]

 

Yeah, without the steadying influence of Suzuki, our pitching staff could have had the worst ERA in MLB for August.  But thanks to Kurt, we're only second worst, at 5.81.  (Also thanks to the Diamondbacks, at 6.15!)

Our woes this season, have nothing to do with catching. If you listen to our pitching staff, you will hear  they like throwing to Suzuki. I have never heard of a credible source, that judges a catcher solely on the pitching staffs ERA. 

[d-mac]

WTF is going on around here?? Seriously, if this isn't damning in regards to the player development and major league coaching staff I don't know what is. Gibson and Duffey regressed, Berrios, Chargois, and Meyer have all really struggled at the major league level and let's not forget the mishandling of Trevor May. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Where is the breakdown in developing our prospects.  If Berrios mechanics were off, why was this not addressed at the minor league level or is it a question of preference of the major league staff.  We have been hearing about this all year, they have to make changes to someones mechanics or batting stance.  Why not let the player go with what got them to the big leagues.  How do other organizations handle their prospects?

I would argue why does the major league staff feel the need to change mechanics or batting stances at the MLB level when the prospects have been successful in the minors? 

Buxton and Berrios in particular seem to go back to AAA and dominate from the get go. Who are they, meaning Molitor and co., to say that these players need a complete overhaul on their approach and mechanics the moment they make the MLB team?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Our woes this season, have nothing to do with catching. If you listen to our pitching staff, you will hear  they like throwing to Suzuki. I have never heard of a credible source, that judges a catcher solely on the pitching staffs ERA. 

I wasn't judging anyone solely by ERA.  Sorry if it wasn't clear that my two sentence fan message board post was not intended to be a complete analysis of the issue.

 

It was intended as a tongue-in-cheek response to a point in an older thread, that trading Suzuki could be disastrous for our pitching staff the rest of 2016.

 

You could even view my comment more charitably, that our pitching staff was plenty capable of being disastrous with or without Suzuki.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

 

In other news, I have not watched a game in over a month. 

 

 

I have not watched a Twins game on TV all year--the live one I saw in DC--frigging bunt loss in extra innings was enough for me.

 

This team needs a whole new front office--and manager--and minor league development people!!!!!

[Doomtints]

 

I wasn't judging anyone solely by ERA.  Sorry if it wasn't clear that my two sentence fan message board post was not intended to be a complete analysis of the issue.

 

It was intended as a tongue-in-cheek response to a point in an older thread, that trading Suzuki could be disastrous for our pitching staff the rest of 2016.

 

I have no doubt our pitchers like to throw to Suzuki, but that doesn't mean he has been beneficial to their performances.  Many of them have hardly ever thrown to another MLB catcher, they wouldn't even have a good basis for comparison, setting aside the more basic problem on relying on ballplayers to evaluate their teammates.

 

If he is as bad as you would say, who would trade for him?  He is ranked #6 in catcher salary and I'm guessing his catcher metrics rank him closer to #26.  

 

And as bad as #26 is, the Twins don't have someone better on the 40-man.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Pressly is part of the core going forward and Kintzler said we were the only team that even offered him a tryout. I would say that's two.

Pressly has been only marginally better in run prevention under Neil Allen as compared to under Rick Anderson (and a lot of that might be due to skipping AAA for his Rule 5 season).

 

He's also not part of any "core" (I hope).  He's a career 118 ERA+ middle reliever with a league average K/9 this year.  He also turns 28 this winter and is arbitration eligible.

 

I'm surprised to hear that about Kintzler, I don't see why more teams wouldn't have offered him a minor league deal.  He had a solid track record before losing most of 2015 to injury (a solid track record which suggests his real "improvement" under Allen hasn't necessarily been all that great).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If he is as bad as you would say, who would trade for him?  He is ranked #6 in catcher salary and I'm guessing his catcher metrics rank him closer to #26.  

 

And as bad as #26 is, the Twins don't have someone better on the 40-man.  

Didn't mean to sidetrack this thread, it was a joke.  If you want to discuss it further, there is a Suzuki thread.

[d-mac]

 

Maybe the GM realizes that the current major league staff & crew are only capable of screwing these guys up so he's just getting them out of a toxic situation with toxic coaching.  

 

Then why not fire the coaches? Like today.

[d-mac]

 

On the bright side, Suzuki is still around to groom these young pitchers.  I can't imagine how badly this could have gone if they would have traded him in July

 

I hope this is sarcasm. 

[alarp33]

 

I hope this is sarcasm. 

 

Of course it was... Berrios and Duffey just got sent down after getting lit up like Christmas trees. 

 

However it was not sarcasm, when people tried to argue the reason they shouldn't trade Suzuki is because his mentorship was badly needed for these pitchers.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

Actually Herrmann has been on the DL over a month, preserving his small sample OPS excellence!

 

And FWIW, he has by far the best "catcher ERA" of Arizona's 3 primary catchers this year, which is obviously not a terribly meaningful stat without context, but it's worth noting that Herrman has caught a fairly proportional share of Shelby Miller's 7.14 ERA innings, and also Herrmann is the only one of the three not to catch Greinke this year.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&team=ARI&year=2016#catch

 

Good god.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I got the joke, obviously. I just thought it also prompted an interesting question about Herrmann which I hadn't looked into before.

[twinssouth]

I look at it differently. I think his mechanics in the minors are probably fine, and it's the MLB staff's insistence on changing them that is screwing him up.

This is 2 pitchers now that they've insisted on changing right away (Santiago), both with disastrous results.

 

The obsession with pitching to contact at all costs is frustrating.

 

 

 

Well that's an interesting take. So, whose right, the Minor League Pitching coaches or the Major League Staff? In either event, it shows me the development is screwed up. If you want to develop successful pitchers, you need ONE philosophy from top down. It should be laid out from day one and followed thru to the majors. From what Berrios said in the MLB column, he would make minor changes in the Minors but got to the Twins and they wanted a Major mechanical change. That shows me "Houston, we got a problem".

[Brock Beauchamp]

Time out. Are we accusing Allen of preaching pitch to contact?

 

Did Rick Anderson possess him?

 

I was all on board with hiring Allen but I'm falling off that train in a hurry... But to claim he's carrying the torch for an idea long gone is a bit much.

[Mr. Brooks]

Time out. Are we accusing Allen of preaching pitch to contact?

 

Did Rick Anderson possess him?

 

I was all on board with hiring Allen but I'm falling off that train in a hurry... But to claim he's carrying the torch for an idea long gone is a bit much.

If that idea is long gone, then why are they overhauling Santiago and Berrios mechanics, mid season, in order to reduce their walk rates?

Pitching to contact is alive and well in these parts.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If that idea is long gone, then why are they overhauling Santiago and Berrios mechanics, mid season, in order to reduce their walk rates?

Pitching to contact is alive and well in these parts.

Whoa. Trying to reduce a 4 BB/9 rate is not preaching "pitch to contact".

 

I don't like how they've handled Berrios - not even a little bit - but no MLB pitcher succeeds by walking one guy every other inning unless they're named Nolan Ryan.

 

Don't couch your ideas about the 2016 Twins in the ideas of the 2008 Twins.

[Darius]

Is contraction still on the table?

[COtwin]

bye-bye Neil.  Hopefully.

[Rosterman]

So, does that mean DEAN gets sent down today. I mean, you give him another shot.

 

And what's with Tonkin. Is he not telling us of some hidden injury, perhaps.

 

But never fear -- Boshers and Milone will be coming of the DL!

[Vanimal46]

But never fear -- Boshers and Milone will be coming of the DL!

That's the equivalent of when you're 8 years old and you receive socks as an Xmas present...

[Woody Wants Wins]

Maybe the reason Berrios pitched well at AAA was well because it was AAA!!!!  Milone had better stats at AAA then Berrios, but it doesn't mean he is going to win the Cy Young.  Maybe the people who watched Berrios have given him too much hype.  I mean Hicks was 5 tool can't miss guy too.

[KirbyDome89]

 

That's the equivalent of when you're 8 years old and you receive socks as an Xmas present...

Yeah but at least socks last longer than a month or two..

[The Wise One]

That's the equivalent of when you're 8 years old and you receive socks as an Xmas present...

When you have nothing, socks are a great thing.