Why has Polanco seen no time at Short?

[Thrylos]

 

You've seen Polanco in Spring Training. Do you think he has the arm to play short? Because when I watched him aim the ball and bounce it to the first baseman, or cut loose and then throw wide, I didn't.

 

yes he does.  Back in the day (2011 I think, confirmed here)  Baseball America ranked him as the best fielding infielder prospect in the organization.  His arm did not get weaker at 23 vs 18...   That's from an unbiased source.  Take it or leave it

 

My personal bias is that he should be given the opportunity to be the Twins SS of the future, because he is better than any other middle infielder in the organization with the stick and has good instincts, good hands and strong arm.  He just needs confidence and concentration that he will not get if they bounce him around. 

[ashbury]

 

 Back in the day (2011 I think, confirmed here)  Baseball America ranked him as the best fielding infielder prospect in the organization.  His arm did not get weaker at 23 vs 18...  

At 18, that ranking would involve a fair amount of projection, would it not?

 

And I don't recall, what similar rankings did BA offer in 2012, 2013, ... ?

[Brandon Warne]

 

That didn't stop them from putting Nunez there.

 

Nunez has a better arm, and possibly better range. He was just comically uncoordinated at times.  

[gil4]

 

That's where I lost my mind. 

I hope you're not here looking for a replacement. I guess it could be worse - you could be looking in the Star-Trib comments (or Souhan's  columns.)

[magiklair]

All I know is he is pretty good.. Need to find a spot on the roster for him...

[jorgenswest]

At 18, that ranking would involve a fair amount of projection, would it not?

 

And I don't recall, what similar rankings did BA offer in 2012, 2013, ... ?

2011 Jorge Polanco

2012 Brian Dozier

2013 Levi Michael

2014 Danny Santana

2015 Engelb Vielma

2016 Engelb Vielma

[ashbury]

2011 Jorge Polanco

2012 Brian Dozier

I'm thinking then that "slam dunk to play SS in the majors" might not be the sole criterion...

[Mike Sixel]

I don't understand why he wasn't moving around the OF, 3B, SS, and 2B while in AAA. Unless they plan to trade Dozier or Polanco......there isn't room for Polanco at 2B on this roster. He's out of options. I don't understand the development/plan here at all to have him play almost exclusively 2B in AAA.

[Darius]

He hasn't been playing short all year. Throwing him back there at the MLB level isn't fair to Polanco. It's setting him up for failure. It's not fair to Twins pitching staff, who would have to deal with his poor defense at the most important position in the infield.

 

Also, what do you propose they do with Escobar? He has earned a shot, IMO. Not a good message to send through the organization that it doesn't matter how you play, if you're not on a prospect list you'll lose your spot to someone who is.

 

The team is finally starting to get some good mojo going. Why mess with it by forcing a fairly marginal prospect into SS? It's not like we're talking about Carlos Correa here. Polanco just needs ABs, that's the important thing. It's not his defense that's going to help this club. Get his bat in the lineup, and do what you can to hide his defensive shortcomings.

[Darius]

I don't understand why he wasn't moving around the OF, 3B, SS, and 2B while in AAA. Unless they plan to trade Dozier or Polanco......there isn't room for Polanco at 2B on this roster. He's out of options. I don't understand the development/plan here at all to have him play almost exclusively 2B in AAA.

Polanco, as an asset to the Twins franchise, has his value maximized at second base. Just look at the Sano example. You can't fit square pegs into round holes for the sake of getting player X or Y at bats.

 

Polanco will get his chance at 2B (he should, at least). Dozier is on an extremely cheap contract through 2018. If he keeps up this production, he will have some serious value on the trade market. Polanco is a young kid with significant offensive upside at 2B. At some point, one has to be traded. They would be foolish not to capitalize on that over the next year or two.

 

Whatever they do, they just need to stop jerking players all over the field at different positions. Develop the player at the place he has the highest value, and cash in, whether as a player on the team, or a trade.

 

It's just like any other business. Always maximize value. When you start discounting things for short-term gratification....you end up killing yourself in the long run.

[bluechipper]

 

The team is finally starting to get some good mojo going. Why mess with it by forcing a fairly marginal prospect into SS? It's not like we're talking about Carlos Correa here. Polanco just needs ABs, that's the important thing. It's not his defense that's going to help this club. Get his bat in the lineup, and do what you can to hide his defensive shortcomings.

Jorge Polanco has made several top 100 lists, including #66 on Keith Laws 2016 list. I think you're underselling his talent. If he has a chance to play SS defensively, he should get a shot there even if that might not be his future position.

[wsnydes]

 

Aw, crap. I just realized that Plouffe is coming back at some point. 

Maybe if we all forget that he's coming back at some point, he won't!  Who's with me?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Polanco, as an asset to the Twins franchise, has his value maximized at second base. Just look at the Sano example. You can't fit square pegs into round holes for the sake of getting player X or Y at bats.

Polanco will get his chance at 2B (he should, at least). Dozier is on an extremely cheap contract through 2018. If he keeps up this production, he will have some serious value on the trade market. Polanco is a young kid with significant offensive upside at 2B. At some point, one has to be traded. They would be foolish not to capitalize on that over the next year or two.

Whatever they do, they just need to stop jerking players all over the field at different positions. Develop the player at the place he has the highest value, and cash in, whether as a player on the team, or a trade.

It's just like any other business. Always maximize value. When you start discounting things for short-term gratification....you end up killing yourself in the long run.

 

And, how do you do that this year or next year, when Polanco has to be on the roster, and Dozier is here? It isn't maximizing any asset for Polanco to sit around and only play when Dozier doesn't.......so you either trade one (as my post said), or you find someplace else for Polanco to play. It isn't "jerking him around" to have him play more than 1 position in the minors, if his best position is blocked. Do we know he can't play 3B? or LF? or CF? We might if he actually played them in the minors some.....instead, we have limited information, and he has limited experience.

[TheLeviathan]

I like that Polanco is getting playing time.  I wish it wasn't at the expense of Vargas......

[magiklair]

 

I like that Polanco is getting playing time.  I wish it wasn't at the expense of Vargas......

I agree.. Vargas is a DH/1B type and we seem to have a few of those

[magiklair]

But it's becoming obvious we have no room for Plouffe

[Kwak]

Polanco didn't help himself with that throw to Dozier.

[Riverbrian]

 

Polanco, as an asset to the Twins franchise, has his value maximized at second base. Just look at the Sano example. You can't fit square pegs into round holes for the sake of getting player X or Y at bats.

Polanco will get his chance at 2B (he should, at least). Dozier is on an extremely cheap contract through 2018. If he keeps up this production, he will have some serious value on the trade market. Polanco is a young kid with significant offensive upside at 2B. At some point, one has to be traded. They would be foolish not to capitalize on that over the next year or two.

Whatever they do, they just need to stop jerking players all over the field at different positions. Develop the player at the place he has the highest value, and cash in, whether as a player on the team, or a trade.

It's just like any other business. Always maximize value. When you start discounting things for short-term gratification....you end up killing yourself in the long run.

 

I disagree.. respectfully of course... but I do disagree. I'm personally tired of the old school logic. Dozier is best at 2B and Polanco is best at 2B so therefore we are stuck with no place to go... Polanco must wait for Dozier to get hurt or... we must trade Dozier.

 

If you want to maximize value... increase your options. Dozier has value to any club that needs a 2B... He has much less value to the teams that don't need a 2B.

 

If Dozier could also play a decent 3B (I think he could)... Well now Dozier has increased his value because now he has value to teams that need a 2B and teams that need a 3B. Same thing for Polanco. 

 

Joe Maddon has blown this old school thinking out of the water. He gets his best players in the lineup and he moves them around to get it done. He's been in Chicago for two years so it's not like the Cubs were prepping for this as the players came up through the system. Bryant plays nothing but 3B in the minors until Maddon gets a hold of him and he lets him play 3B and OF.  Wilson Contreras... Merely a Cather... No... A little OF... A little 1B...  Schwarber a great hitting Catcher who isn't that great of Catcher... moved to the OF because the Cubs are just better this way. No room for Baez because they have Zobrist, Russel and Bryant... So they must trade Baez... That what everybody in the world says... Nope... He's good and they want to keep him... so they jerk him wherever they need to get him some at-bats and it goes just fine. 

 

The Cardinals have also been fearless when it comes to moving players around. Carpenter wherever he is needed. Wong at 2B and then into the OF. They trade for 2B Gyorko and they already had Wong and they play Gyorko all over the infield to make it work. Diaz gets the job done at SS while Peralta is on the DL and  when Peralta gets back... he moves to 3B to accommodate. 

 

The Rangers have adopted this new thinking as well. They didn't say... We got Andrus... We don't need Desmond... They sign him and move him to LF and then to CF. Where is Desmond today if the Rangers didn't think outside the box? Who Knows... Nobody was offering him a SS job. Profar comes up and gets hot while Odor is suspended. They don't send him down when Odor returns... they play him wherever they can... 1B-2B-3B-SS-LF. 

 

The Astros call up Bregman even with Correa blocking him. Everybody speculating that they must trade Bregman for Pitching and they don't trade him and they need pitching... They believe in him and they keep him... they play him at 3B and plan to move him to LF because they still went ahead and signed a Cuban 3B supposed superstar. Yep... They purposely created a log jam. 

 

The Dodgers move the Veteran 2B Kendrick to wherever he is needed. 

 

The Nationals... Trea Turner... Was blocked by something called Espinoza. Boom... into CF he goes because Revere and Taylor wasn't working. 

 

None of this jerking around is killing these clubs... and it's not killing the players either.. Not trying these moves is what kills the players because they are forced to stagnate behind another player. 

 

For every Sano and Hanley Ramirez horror show... There are 10 examples of it working. 

 

Jorge Polanco can move to where he is needed so we can get his bat in the lineup and it won't kill him.

 

It will only help him because now he can actually play. 

 

I believe this... I truly do. 

 

 

[insane16]

 

I disagree.. respectfully of course... but I do disagree. I'm personally tired of the old school logic. Dozier is best at 2B and Polanco is best at 2B so therefore we are stuck with no place to go... Polanco must wait for Dozier to get hurt or... we must trade Dozier.

 

If you want to maximize value... increase your options. Dozier has value to any club that needs a 2B... He has much less value to the teams that don't need a 2B.

 

If Dozier could also play a decent 3B (I think he could)... Well now Dozier has increased his value because now he has value to teams that need a 2B and teams that need a 3B. Same thing for Polanco. 

 

Joe Maddon has blown this old school thinking out of the water. He gets his best players in the lineup and he moves them around to get it done. He's been in Chicago for two years so it's not like the Cubs were prepping for this as the players came up through the system. Bryant plays nothing but 3B in the minors until Maddon gets a hold of him and he lets him play 3B and OF.  Wilson Contreras... Merely a Cather... No... A little OF... A little 1B...  Schwarber a great hitting Catcher who isn't that great of Catcher... moved to the OF because the Cubs are just better this way. No room for Baez because they have Zobrist, Russel and Bryant... So they must trade Baez... That what everybody in the world says... Nope... He's good and they want to keep him... so they jerk him wherever they need to get him some at-bats and it goes just fine. 

 

The Cardinals have also been fearless when it comes to moving players around. Carpenter wherever he is needed. Wong at 2B and then into the OF. They trade for 2B Gyorko and they already had Wong and they play Gyorko all over the infield to make it work. Diaz gets the job done at SS while Peralta is on the DL and  when Peralta gets back... he moves to 3B to accommodate. 

 

The Rangers have adopted this new thinking as well. They didn't say... We got Andrus... We don't need Desmond... They sign him and move him to LF and then to CF. Where is Desmond today if the Rangers didn't think outside the box? Who Knows... Nobody was offering him a SS job. Profar comes up and gets hot while Odor is suspended. They don't send him down when Odor returns... they play him wherever they can... 1B-2B-3B-SS-LF. 

 

The Astros call up Bregman even with Correa blocking him. Everybody speculating that they must trade Bregman for Pitching and they don't trade him and they need pitching... They believe in him and they keep him... they play him at 3B and plan to move him to LF because they still went ahead and signed a Cuban 3B supposed superstar. Yep... They purposely created a log jam. 

 

The Dodgers move the Veteran 2B Kendrick to wherever he is needed. 

 

The Nationals... Trea Turner... Was blocked by something called Espinoza. Boom... into CF he goes because Revere and Taylor wasn't working. 

 

None of this jerking around is killing these clubs... and it's not killing the players either.. Not trying these moves is what kills the players because they are forced to stagnate behind another player. 

 

For every Sano and Hanley Ramirez horror show... There are 10 examples of it working. 

 

Jorge Polanco can move to where he is needed so we can get his bat in the lineup and it won't kill him.

 

It will only help him because now he can actually play. 

 

I believe this... I truly do. 

None of those examples involve someone who is an inadequate SS (or catcher) playing those DEFENSE-FIRST positions to add another bat to the lineup.
Other positions, OK, but you don't sacrifice defense at SS or catcher.

[Shane Wahl]

I have seen him make dynamic plays at short up in Minnesota. He was initially regarded as a defense-first short stop when they signed him. He has the arm for the position, in terms of strength. I do think he should still be considered there. Otherwise he MUST be traded. And then he go on to be an all-star second baseman somewhere.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Because that determination came from the same "brain"trust that thought that made sense to put Sano at the outfield to begin the season.

 

Trust their judgement about the ability of Twins' players to play positions, with a huge grain of salt.   Hopefully that will all resolve with the new Front Office this off-season...

 

boooommmmmm

[Riverbrian]

 

None of those examples involve someone who is an inadequate SS (or catcher) playing those DEFENSE-FIRST positions to add another bat to the lineup.
Other positions, OK, but you don't sacrifice defense at SS or catcher.

 

I agree 100 Percent. I don't think you should sacrifice defense at SS or Catcher and I'm not comfortable sacrificing it in CF either. 

 

But I'd like to add that I haven't personally seen Polanco actually be inadequate at SS yet. I suppose I could rely on the Twins scouting department for that assessment but I'm not feeling that charitable after watching the assessments they have made. 

 

I would also like to add... and with no intended disrespect to Eduardo Escobar. It's not like Escobar is the Kansas City Escobar at SS. 

 

In a nutshell... At this point... I'm not sure how much SS Defense we are sacrificing from Escobar or Nunez to Polanco. 

 

Anyway... The real point I was making was this... I strongly disagree with the notion that Polanco can only play 2B and Dozier must be traded so Polanco can play. 

[Shane Wahl]

 

yes he does.  Back in the day (2011 I think, confirmed here)  Baseball America ranked him as the best fielding infielder prospect in the organization.  His arm did not get weaker at 23 vs 18...   That's from an unbiased source.  Take it or leave it

 

My personal bias is that he should be given the opportunity to be the Twins SS of the future, because he is better than any other middle infielder in the organization with the stick and has good instincts, good hands and strong arm.  He just needs confidence and concentration that he will not get if they bounce him around. 

 

A million cheers for this post, as it is spot on.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Polanco didn't help himself with that throw to Dozier.

 

Dozier just dropped an easy throw.

[Shane Wahl]

I would like the Twins to have 25 good players for a change.

[Riverbrian]

 

I would like the Twins to have 25 good players for a change.

 

Exactly

 

I would love it if the Manager would have to pull his hair out trying to make decisions because he had actual MLB legitimate options. 

[Shane Wahl]

It is feasible to think that Polanco could play backup roles at 2B, SS, 3B, and LF with proper preparation with regard to the last position there. On the other hand the Twins could probably get some serious return for Dozier. I really, really like Polanco.

[Shane Wahl]

Maddon is brilliant here. Another way to look at this is with reference to the NBA. Guys fill in here and there, get more minutes here and there, etc. Molitor has played Santana too much, but he has been ok other than that in rotating guys a bit.

[howeda7]

 

Jorge Polanco has made several top 100 lists, including #66 on Keith Laws 2016 list. I think you're underselling his talent. If he has a chance to play SS defensively, he should get a shot there even if that might not be his future position.

+1. What's a lost season for if not stuff like this. Let's find out if Polanco can play SS and if Sano can play 3B.

[insane16]

 

I agree 100 Percent. I don't think you should sacrifice defense at SS or Catcher and I'm not comfortable sacrificing it in CF either. 

 

But I'd like to add that I haven't personally seen Polanco actually be inadequate at SS yet. I suppose I could rely on the Twins scouting department for that assessment but I'm not feeling that charitable after watching the assessments they have made. 

 

I would also like to add... and with no intended disrespect to Eduardo Escobar. It's not like Escobar is the Kansas City Escobar at SS. 

 

In a nutshell... At this point... I'm not sure how much SS Defense we are sacrificing from Escobar or Nunez to Polanco. 

 

Anyway... The real point I was making was this... I strongly disagree with the notion that Polanco can only play 2B and Dozier must be traded so Polanco can play. 

And I agree with that.
Polanco can PLAY SS, but he can't BE THE SS if he is defensively inadequate at SS.
If he (or Dozier) plays 2B, SS and 3B; they can all get a lot of playing time.