Ryan tells Phil Miller about "learning up here.

[Platoon]

Following is a cut and paste from a Miller extra piece after yesterday's game. Not a big surprise, at least to me.

 

 

(I) wrote for tomorrow’s paper about Terry Ryan and his difficult decisions coming up, but he said a few other things that are worth considering. Essentially, I asked the Twins’ general manager whether he intends to use this season as a training ground for young players, given the last-place record. He said no, “I don’t believe in that,” and gave a couple of reasons.

 

“I don’t want a guy to get buried up here,” he said, and though he mentioned no names, some observers believe Aaron Hicks’ career might have been different had he not been given a major-league roster spot in 2013, before he had been to Triple-A. “I’ve got to protect a player from himself on occasion,” Ryan said.

 

And there’s another factor that he felt strongly about: Just because the team isn’t winning, doesn’t mean he will allow it to stop trying to win.

 

“I don’t believe in ‘Let’s let him learn up here.’ I don’t like that at all,” Ryan said. “There are 24 other players on this team that want to win baseball games. … If a guy isn’t helping a cause [but keeps playing], the other 24 guys see that. And it’s not right.”

[diehardtwinsfan]

Then why is Buxton still up here?

[notoriousgod71]

 

Then why is Buxton still up here?

 

Why is anyone up here? It's obvious 4/5 of the roster has no idea what they're doing.

[spinowner]

 

“I don’t believe in ‘Let’s let him learn up here.’ I don’t like that at all,” Ryan said.

Yet he also said this about Park later in the Phil Miller piece:

“Everybody knows what it’s like to struggle at the major-league level. And here’s a guy that’s never seen most of the pitching he’s facing,” Ryan said. “We’re trying to work with him, we’re trying to help him, we’re trying with video, we’re trying with voices."

Seems contradictory to me. Moreover, with Park the timeline is much shorter than with Buxton because of his age. His skills will inevitably start to decline very soon. The Twins need to get him to the top of his game ASAP.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Stunning. TR comes across as seriously delusional with these comments.

[wsnydes]

Those words aren't surprising at all.  His words reflect his actions.  

 

This mentality would be fine for a middling team on the cusp of being a series contender, but not at all what a team in this position should be looking at.

 

He talks about guys wanting to win games.  I'd argue that several of the prospects might even give this team a better chance of winning baseball games.  They certainly wouldn't harm the chances at all.

[Winston Smith]

Time to retire Terry. Get the gold stopwatch and go fishing!

[Vanimal46]

“I don’t want a guy to get buried up here." Hmm, that's something new that Polanco, Kepler the first time, Meyer, Tonkin the first 2 option years, and many others haven't heard before. 

“I don’t believe in ‘Let’s let him learn up here.’ I don’t like that at all." Then it's impossible to promote any prospect with this train of thought, right? Not even Joe Mauer comes up from AA or AAA without needing to learn at the MLB level. Are there any examples of AA or AAA players that come up and are Mr. Miyagi right off the bat?

 

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

 “There are 24 other players on this team that want to win baseball games.

Go on...

[wsnydes]

 

“I don’t want a guy to get buried up here." Hmm, that's something new that Polanco, Kepler the first time, Meyer, Tonkin the first 2 option years, and many others haven't heard before. 

“I don’t believe in ‘Let’s let him learn up here.’ I don’t like that at all." Then it's impossible to promote any prospect with this train of thought, right? Not even Joe Mauer comes up from AA or AAA without needing to learn at the MLB level. Are there any examples of AA or AAA players that come up and are Mr. Miyagi right off the bat?

 

Correct you are.  It's very difficult to learn a craft at the highest level if you aren't afforded an opportunity to learn said craft at the highest level.

 

So instead, when you've exhausted their options you're forced with a decision.  Have they showed enough in the minuscule time we've given them to prove themselves worthy or DFA them because there's nothing else that I can do with them?

[bird]

Have any of you worked in a profession where you've been constantly learning for years? Lordy.

 

There's nothing terribly contradictory going on here. It's baseball. From what I've witnessed, it's a blurred line, and has been forever.

 

Go ahead and find fault with every single sentence this man utters, and go ahead and look for meaning in each sentence that casts him in the worst possible light. From my perspective, you're being brutally unfair, disingenuous, and petty when you do that. I still respect your right to your opinion, but I doubt you could hold up to the standards you demand from Ryan when it comes to his interview responses.

 

"Send X to AAA. Cut Y. Ship Z out for a bag of balls. But A? That darn FO didn't give A a chance." Let's look in the mirror once in awhile and ask ourselves if we don't contradict ourselves on occasion. Maybe we'd be open to a little more tolerance.

[Vanimal46]

 

Have any of you worked in a profession where you've been constantly learning for years? Lordy.

Yes. If you're not learning or consistently honing your craft, someone else is going to pass you in your path to success. Name any successful person in the world today, and they'll attribute part of their success to constant learning and adjustments over their long career. 

[TheLeviathan]

I agree with Ryan. You can't take a "throw em in the deep end" approach to player development.

 

But then I also can't square that with our CF choices the last five years.

[DaveW]

I agree with Ryan. You can't take a "throw em in the deep end" approach to player development.

 

But then I also can't square that with our CF choices the last five years.

Yeah, this is really weird.

[wsnydes]

 

I agree with Ryan. You can't take a "throw em in the deep end" approach to player development.

But then I also can't square that with our CF choices the last five years.

I would agree with that.  You can't just call up guys that clearly aren't ready.  That's counterproductive.

 

That being said, guys that do show that they're ready aren't given opportunities.  Moves aren't made with the future in mind.  As birdwatcher eluded to, people make mistakes.  He's also right in saying that people are pretty brutal if they're attacking every word TR says.  A good manager will admit to mistakes and take actions to correct them.  IMO, he does more compounding of his mistakes by taking no action rather than correcting them.  This team should be building for the future and TR doesn't show a willingness to do that.  They're on pace for a 100+ loss season following 90+ losses in 4 of 5 seasons.  I don't think criticism of that is unfair at all.  Not everything he does or says is wrong, but there is plenty of criticism to go around.

[bird]

 

Yes. If you're not learning or consistently honing your craft, someone else is going to pass you in your path to success. Name any successful person in the world today, and they'll attribute part of their success to constant learning and adjustments over their long career. 

 

 

Exactly, Vanimal. And when we started, the company mentored us at times, let us struggle at times, and sent us off for more training at times.

[bird]

 

I agree with Ryan. You can't take a "throw em in the deep end" approach to player development.

But then I also can't square that with our CF choices the last five years.

 

 

Yes. Fair criticism.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Then why is Buxton still up here?

Defense.  That and he is making contact now and that's a start.  As opposed to the nice collection of K's he's been collecting up to this point. 

 

 

 

[Lenny Green]

Wasn't Terry Ryan working with McPhail in the mid-80s when they brought up the entire Hrbek, Gaetti, Viola gang and let them learn the game together?  That seemed to work out pretty well.

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

I agree with Ryan. You can't take a "throw em in the deep end" approach to player development.

But then I also can't square that with our CF choices the last five years.

 

Well, the other part of player development and the not "throw em in the deep end" idea is somebody has to play that position.  If that person isn't currently in a MLB uniform, then you rent the likes of Ryan Sweeney, Joe Benson and Darin Mastroianni et al in the hopes of giving that prospect the time to mature his game. 

 

Is that a great strategy?  Well, if it took less than 5 years for that player to be MLB-ready, that's pretty questionable, as Buxton was 18 when he signed.  Greater depth in the farm system, larger budget and willingness of other MLB players to sign with the Twins are all things that could cure some of the Twins ills.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Well, the other part of player development and the not "throw em in the deep end" idea is somebody has to play that position.  If that person isn't currently in a MLB uniform, then you rent the likes of Ryan Sweeney, Joe Benson and Darin Mastroianni et al in the hopes of giving that prospect the time to mature his game. 

 

Is that a great strategy?  Well, if it took less than 5 years for that player to be MLB-ready, that's pretty questionable, as Buxton was 18 when he signed.  Greater depth in the farm system, larger budget and willingness of other MLB players to sign with the Twins are all things that could cure some of the Twins ills.

 

I agree, the key then is to invest in placeholders that might generate some value when you're ready to move them.  We've also done a poor job at that.  

 

Either way, I don't disagree with what Ryan is saying here.  He's not wrong.  But if you put a guy on the 25 man or 40 man roster than you need to have a plan for getting that person playing time when they need it.  We've been really bad at that the last few years.

[d-mac]

 

Stunning. TR comes across as seriously delusional with these comments.

 

Or not stunning. I mean, doesn't he have to be delusional to not see the problems? 

[Loosey]

 

Have any of you worked in a profession where you've been constantly learning for years? Lordy.

 

There's nothing terribly contradictory going on here. It's baseball. From what I've witnessed, it's a blurred line, and has been forever.

 

Go ahead and find fault with every single sentence this man utters, and go ahead and look for meaning in each sentence that casts him in the worst possible light. From my perspective, you're being brutally unfair, disingenuous, and petty when you do that. I still respect your right to your opinion, but I doubt you could hold up to the standards you demand from Ryan when it comes to his interview responses.

 

"Send X to AAA. Cut Y. Ship Z out for a bag of balls. But A? That darn FO didn't give A a chance." Let's look in the mirror once in awhile and ask ourselves if we don't contradict ourselves on occasion. Maybe we'd be open to a little more tolerance.

As a matter of fact I have been learning in my job for year.  For a comparison to baseball, my time at college was like playing in the minor leagues.  It showed employers I was prospect who had the tools they were looking for.  Once I got on the job I still needed training, still learned new things, got better as I went along and to this day am still improving and learning. 

[d-mac]

 

“I don’t want a guy to get buried up here." Hmm, that's something new that Polanco, Kepler the first time, Meyer, Tonkin the first 2 option years, and many others haven't heard before. 

“I don’t believe in ‘Let’s let him learn up here.’ I don’t like that at all." Then it's impossible to promote any prospect with this train of thought, right? Not even Joe Mauer comes up from AA or AAA without needing to learn at the MLB level. Are there any examples of AA or AAA players that come up and are Mr. Miyagi right off the bat?

 

 

MARK IT ZERO!!!!! Sorry, I couldn't help.

[spinowner]

 

Wasn't Terry Ryan working with McPhail in the mid-80s when they brought up the entire Hrbek, Gaetti, Viola gang and let them learn the game together?  That seemed to work out pretty well.

That took place well before either of them were with the Twins.

 

And love your user name, BTW.

[mazeville]

 

Then why is Buxton still up here?

 

Because he has defensive value and lots of speed.

 

And, frankly, what do you do if you send him down? Play Rosario in center? You'd definitely lose defensive value, you'd lose speed, and maybe you might capture about 50 points in average. I think Rosario should be on the major league roster at this point, but when your choices are let Buxton learn up here, play Rosario in center or play Danny Santana in center, I think you just swallow hard and keep Buxton.

 

This team, at this point, needs to be patient with its prospects. They're not winning this year - that's the cold, hard reality. Look at the Boston Red Sox ... they're winning with prospects who weren't playing all that well the past couple of years.

[TheLeviathan]

 

No. People are rightly calling out Ryan's blatant hypocrisy. We as fans have every right to complain about how our favorite team is being run in a 110 loss season. If it's such a problem with you, then maybe you shouldn't read these threads. 

 

This isn't hypocrisy.  He's saying you don't call up Nick Gordon just because you're losing.  You don't play people based on their age, even in a season like this, unless you think playing in the big leagues is right for them.

 

And he's right.

 

He's also saying you don't just knowingly play someone who isn't ready because it gets noticed.  That's not fair to the player or the other players on the roster.  

 

And he's right.

 

There is no hypocrisy here.

[d-mac]

 

This isn't hypocrisy.  He's saying you don't call up Nick Gordon just because you're losing.  You don't play people based on their age, even in a season like this, unless you think playing in the big leagues is right for them.

 

And he's right.

 

He's also saying you don't just knowingly play someone who isn't ready because it gets noticed.  That's not fair to the player or the other players on the roster.  

 

And he's right.

 

There is no hypocrisy here.

 

Then why was Buxton forced into a starting job before he was ready? Why was Hicks forced into a starting job before he was ready? Say one thing and then acting in an opposite and contradictory manner, I believe that is hypocrisy. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Then why was Buxton forced into a starting job before he was ready? Why was Hicks forced into a starting job before he was ready? Say one thing and then acting in an opposite and contradictory manner, I believe that is hypocrisy. 

 

And I agree, I can't square those comments unless Ryan and the team believed they were ready.  In that case, there are even deeper issues about player assessment going on.  But these comments are not hypocritical in and of themselves.

[Vanimal46]

 

MARK IT ZERO!!!!! Sorry, I couldn't help.

Mark it 8, Dude. 

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