Buxton Service Time (personal preferences?)

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I know there is threads out there on Buxton, but was hoping to have this one be (mostly, but not exclusively) about his service time and him being called back up. Not necessarily about his overall play.

 

172 days (not games) = 1 year of service time. Buxton is currently at 113 days.

 

For him to NOT reach that 172 days of service time the Twins would have to wait to bring him back up during the away Rays weekend series August 5th-7th, or the following home series against the Rays beginning the 8th. 

 

Factoring in everything that has happened to the Twins and Buxton this season, I do not see if worth it to bring him before then for any reason, regardless of his AAA production before then. The Twins simply will be playing for nothing this season no matter how hot they get at any point.

 

Keeping him down until then still gives him a full 2 months to finish out the season and play everyday (hopefully leadoff) to end this season. He has plenty to work on at the plate and base paths until then, regardless of production. His process needs to be right for a sustained amount of time, and not just rely on athleticism.

 

There are other youngsters that could fill his role until then too with Kepler, Rosario, Santana, Arcia, and filler. They might not give us what he can, but we are not playing for anything. Bringing him any time before that time and losing the year of service to me just does not seem worth it. Yes, that will be a frustrating wait, but its also a position that both the Twins and Buxton put themselves in. If the Twins were in the hunt of Buxton was performing anything near even below average he would be up still.

 

What is your guys thoughts on this? Bring him up as soon as he seems to have figured it out? Wait it out and bring him up for the last two months and hold his service clock down by one year? I would just like to hear the general opinion on a tough decision on this.

 

*(I am not a service guru, so sorry if I got this wrong and please don't jump on my case.) 

[gunnarthor]

The pro-labor part of me really dislikes service time trickery so I'm against that on principle.  But I also think it's a bad example.  Players don't like it either so you're poisoning your locker room.  His agent should make a stink out of it.  And Buxton will need some time to adjust to ML pitching as well.  I think the team should bring him up around the all-star break (assuming he looks well in AAA).  Hopefully by that time the Twins will be able to bring up Kepler as well (and trade Arcia).  

[Mr. Brooks]

My personal preference is that service time has nothing to do with when he does or does not come back up.

[Thrylos]

Trade him while he is hot

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure if I'd bring him up again this year... but that's me.  He was bad in two tries.  I have no problems leaving him in AAA for the time being.  This has nothing to do with service time and everything to do with his development...  then again, I wouldn't have brought him North this spring either.

[Mike Sixel]

Call him up when you think he's almost ready. Do not worry about service time. Seriously. Mauer's contract is done soonish....no one else other than Sano looks like they need an extension any time soon. Seriously, one thing they don't seem to do in MN is worry about service time (or options, I guess) with guys they think are great.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I guess my true feeling is that you either bring him up very soon if they think he's ready, and he eclipses his service time by months not weeks or days. But, the longer they wait to call him up, the less sense it makes do it before that date. Calling him up within a 2-3 weeks of that date would just seem like a really bad decision- IMO.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

172 days (not games) = 1 year of service time. Buxton is currently at 113 days.

For him to NOT reach that 172 days of service time the Twins would have to wait to bring him back up during the away Rays weekend series August 5th-7th, or the following home series against the Rays beginning the 8th.

Not quite.  According to B-Ref, Buxton was at 113 days before the season.  They don't update service time in-season.

 

Plus 22 days this year, he should be at 135 now.  The recall date where we'd gain an extra year of service time would be August 28th.

 

He may already be eligible for a 4th arbitration season (Super 2) after 2018.  If he spends another week in MLB this year, it is almost guaranteed.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Not quite.  According to B-Ref, Buxton was at 113 days before the season.

Awe, I thought that is the current number. Thank you for that clarification. So, IS THERE any numbers then that would effect his service time then? Can anyone drudge up when calling him would effect it?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Awe, I thought that is the current number. Thank you for that clarification. So, IS THERE any numbers then that would effect his service time then? Can anyone drudge up when calling him would effect it?

See my edited post above.  Calling him up August 28th would give him 36 more service days in 2016, leaving him at 171, one day shy of a full season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And before anyone tries to correct B-Ref, note that Buxton gets service time for the 10 days he was optioned in August 2015 because he spent fewer than 20 days on optional assignment last season.  Hence why B-Ref says 113, even though Buxton was only on the MLB roster (or DL) for 103 days last season.

 

And before anyone tries to correct me, I suspect April 3rd counts as "MLB Opening Day" this year even though the Twins didn't play until April 4th.  Hence why I am guessing Buxton gets service time credit for April 3-24, or 22 days, before he was optioned on April 25th.

[d-mac]

Yeah, I think Buxton needs to stay down in AAA and prove he can stay healthy and show a month-to-month improvement of his BB/K ratio. He's currently at 0.33 in AAA, which by the way, is not good. 

 

In other words, if I was in charge, service time wouldn't even be a consideration because I just don't think he is ready.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I too think he needs to spend some more time in AAA, and there's probably no statistical benchmark to use for his promotion -- he just needs to be comfortable with and committed to some kind of approach.

 

August 28th might be a little late to do it -- it's might be awfully hard to get much data from the season's final month to plan for 2017.  Not that this team has ever appeared particularly concerned with data suggesting we need a better Plan A/B in CF...

[nicksaviking]

I kind of have a feeling that those currently in charge probably shouldn't be concerned about service time as it's going to be the problem of someone else in about four months.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Yeah, I think Buxton needs to stay down in AAA and prove he can stay healthy and show a month-to-month improvement of his BB/K ratio. He's currently at 0.33 in AAA, which by the way, is not good. 

 

In other words, if I was in charge, service time wouldn't even be a consideration because I just don't think he is ready.

You've hit on the 2 things I've also been concerned about:  Injuries and BB/K.

How can a kid 22yrs old suddenly have back spasms?  I was 22 once, didn't happen to me.  But I was in college, so I was probably a lot better hydrated.

The lack of BB's all works into the whole pitch recognition / hitting mechanics thing.

 

He's got a lot of athleticism, just gotta get the head into the rest of the game.

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

I kind of have a feeling that those currently in charge probably shouldn't be concerned about service time as it's going to be the problem of someone else in about four months.

Buxton's being traded?   

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Buxton's being traded?   

No, I think he means Twins management may change after the season.

[LaBombo]

 

The pro-labor part of me really dislikes service time trickery so I'm against that on principle.  But I also think it's a bad example.  Players don't like it either so you're poisoning your locker room.  His agent should make a stink out of it.  And Buxton will need some time to adjust to ML pitching as well.  I think the team should bring him up around the all-star break (assuming he looks well in AAA).  Hopefully by that time the Twins will be able to bring up Kepler as well (and trade Arcia).  

 

I'm a little hazy with regard to the reasoning and the moral equivalency behind painting Terry Ryan as some sort of evil,   mustache-twirling 19th century robber baron by applying the word "trickery" to his giving service time its due consideration in accordance with the labor agreement that the players signed off on.

 

In the absence of either a clear and unavoidable need at the major league level or strong (if not overwhelming) evidence the player's development is being hampered by not being promoted,   then a competent GM is simply doing his due diligence by paying heed to the arbitration clock.

 

And the case for promotion in spite of service time issues had better be awfully compelling in light of the Twins front office's recent history of not only being a poor judge of when prospects are ready for the majors,   but whether players are ever going to be good enough to be major leaguers.

 

If Buxton's re-promotion schedule isn't to his liking,  his agent is free to "make a stink",   as you suggest.   In that event,  it's my hope that such in-season histrionics during this disastrous campaign beset with a constantly churning roster will serve to caution Mr. Ryan about what he can expect when he sits down with Mr. Buxton's agent in the future,   when actual negotiations take place.

 

As unpleasant as it is to contemplate,    though,    your prediction may very well prove true.   This locker room might actually be so lost at this point that it may indeed quietly continue to stumble and mope through perhaps the worst season in the franchise's history,   and yet find itself angered and 'poisoned', as you put it,  by a simple arbitration issue regarding a 22 year rookie.

[gunnarthor]

 

I'm a little hazy with regard to the reasoning and the moral equivalency behind painting Terry Ryan as some sort of evil,   mustache-twirling 19th century robber baron by applying the word "trickery" to his giving service time its due consideration in accordance with the labor agreement that the players signed off on.

 

 

I don't believe I did that.  I just said I don't like the service time manipulation.  It'll (very likely) be fixed in the next CBA but it's a loophole that I think management has used to violate the spirit of the CBA.  So when the OP asked if we should consider it, I said no.  I'd prefer to bring him up when he's ready. 

[kab21]

Buxton should come up when ready but I am not sure I would bring him up before August or September regardless of how awesome he does in AAA after two completely clueless stints in the majors. And if I am weeks away from delaying his FA by a year then you might as well call him up in September after the AAA playoffs.

 

My prediction is that he ends up back up with the team in July because the CF is injured/ineffective.