Twins Option Berrios, Recall Taylor Rogers

[DaveW]

 

I am not a huge believer in TR......but this is unfair, imo.

He hasn't done or said anything this season to suggest otherwise. Maybe he does "give a damn" but is just a terrible GM who has had the game pass him by. But if that is the case if he did actually care, I would think he would do the honorable thing and step down (again). Basically, if Terry Ryan actually wants to see the Twins compete for a world series he should step down, even if his heart is still in it (which I question)

[gocgo]

MLB is not for development is what some seem to be saying.

 

OK, so what was the plan for Sano in right field then?  Seems to me, we've been using the MLB as a development plan for quite a while now...e.g. Jason Bartlett in left field.

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

What can he learn in AAA that he can't in the majors?

 

Because at this point Wins and Losses in 2016 should be among the last concerns anyone has for this club. It should all be about Wins and Losses in 2017 and beyond.

 

I understand the argument.  However, Berrios is getting the crap beaten out of him and his confidence is way down. 

 

Still, I probably would have given him and extra day, or 2, off and given him 1 more start.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

Because, if you are building an attitude of "its ok to lose this season", a loser is all you are going to be.

Like these Minnesota Twins.

 

You have to play to win every game, every season and do not accept losing. 

 

None of the players are intentionally tanking games, I'm sure everyone in the dugout is playing to win every single one of them. If the inclusion of a single player on the 25-man is causing another player to give less of an effort, than that guy needs to get lost.

 

And that isn't happening. Who is on the roster has absolutely nothing to do with the players trying to win games.

[DaveW]

I see a lot of people with the stance that you need to play to "win" in the MLB and need to have said players that help you win. If that is the case, and if that is the strategy the Twins are using, then why is Phil Hughes still in the rotation?

[nicksaviking]

 

 

He hasn't done or said anything this season to suggest otherwise. Maybe he does "give a damn" but is just a terrible GM who has had the game pass him by. But if that is the case if he did actually care, I would think he would do the honorable thing and step down (again). Basically, if Terry Ryan actually wants to see the Twins compete for a world series he should step down, even if his heart is still in it (which I question)

 

I would argue every move Ryan has made since the season went in the toilet looks like a misguided attempt to squeeze every futile win out of this club, and the only reason he would do that is because he's thinks it's the only way to save jobs.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would argue every move Ryan has made since the season went in the toilet looks like a misguided attempt to squeeze every futile win out of this club, and the only reason he would do that is because he's thinks it's the only way to save jobs.

 

I agree, actually. I think he's trying to save other peoples' jobs, out of loyalty.

[DaveW]

 

I would argue every move Ryan has made since the season went in the toilet looks like a misguided attempt to squeeze every futile win out of this club, and the only reason he would do that is because he's thinks it's the only way to save jobs.

Once again, if winning games (even in this futile season) was his goal, then why on earth is Phil Hughes still in this rotation?

[Twinfan & Dad]

You are either in or out with the movement to the youth especially in a year like this. Lets see we have Meyer,Kepler,Buxton and now Berrios. It's much like a basketball player missing a few shots and being benched. This is no way to instil confidence in our younger players. Either you are in or out Terry Ryan! Not to say that the youngsters need work But you have the major league coaches that they can work with on off days. Does this mean they have more confidence in our minor league coaches to help them turn it around. What a cluster****.

[Riverbrian]

 

Hey! He hasn't given up runs in the simple majority of innings! Is that what we're basing things on? Really?

 

There is no statistic or measure that indicates anything but a pitcher who is clearly overmatched, or at the very least having a deer-in-the-headlights experience in the majors. 

 

Yes

 

Partly

 

 

[Bill Brown69]

The other thing to factor in this move is the likelihood of Hughes giving us less than 6 innings tonight. We should all be prepared for a 2 inning clunker and if it is 7 strong be happy.

[DaveW]

 

I agree, actually. I think he's trying to save other peoples' jobs, out of loyalty.

If he really wanted to try to save everyone elses job, he could fall on his sword at anytime. Of course that hasn't happened, not even close.

 

 

[twinsnorth49]

Sorry but this isn't just about Berrios being sent down, it's about the overall mindset. Why bring him up to begin with if this is the amount of rope he was going to be allowed? Personally I think it's because they were hoping for another lucky shot in the dark, they were desperate, already, in mid May for God's sake.

 

If you're sending him down for his own benefit and a big part of the reason is another couple of wins he might be worth is meaningless anyway, then you are essentially pulling the pin a month and a half into the season and have grossly overestimated the team you put together. If TR had a damn clue about the true talent level of his team none of Buxton, Berrios, Polanco would have been anywhere near this team, you'd probably have  optioned Rosario by now and no way in hell would you have ever placed your future franchise cornerstone player in RF where he has never played before for the sake of Trevor Plouffe. 

 

Oversight is being far too kind.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

What good is 70 Wins in 2016 going to do anyone as opposed to 60 Wins?

I'm confused about whether it's the young guys who will only get us to 60 wins, or if the veterans are capable of doing that themselves

[Shane Wahl]

He just arrived and has a few rough starts, but how is he going to get better in AAA right now. This could be a smart decision if the Twins weren't terrible, but they are. They are terrible. And now Pat Dean is going to be making starts!? Are we really back to the 2011-2014 era with nonsense pitchers making starts? We are really back there?

[Thrylos]

 

Yet they continue to trot out Nolasco and Hughes 40% of the time, Suzuki 80% of the time and continue to give Jepsen high leverage work. Hmmmmmmm.....

 

Agreed.  Ryan sat on his rear end last winter and when the Twins can do something (like at C now they got a hot bat, Molitor won't.)

 

Just don't tell me that Berrios has pitched better than Nolasco and Hughes.

 

Is he going to be part of the Twins' rotation in the future, unlike the 2 aforementioned? 

 

Yes.  Hopefully.

But his future is not now and these 2 are better than him.  Heck Dean outpitched him yesterday.  Got to go with the hot hand. 

[Thrylos]

 

MLB is not for development is what some seem to be saying.

 

OK, so what was the plan for Sano in right field then?  Seems to me, we've been using the MLB as a development plan for quite a while now...e.g. Jason Bartlett in left field.

 

Bad plan.  That should had never happened.

 

Nobody here said that a. Ryan has a plan or b. Ryan even gets it or c Ryan is even a passable GM.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Berrios' biggest issue was his control, which has never before been an issue. If he's having issues locating, it's likely due to nerves, you don't get over that in AAA with 500 people in the stands.

Yup. 

 

Also, meanwhile, Phil Hughes will be pitching in MLB with 500 people in the stands, because it's getting really really really hard to maintain interest. 

[DaveW]

 

Agreed.  Ryan sat on his rear end last winter and when the Twins can do something (like at C now they got a hot bat, Molitor won't.)

 

Just don't tell me that Berrios has pitched better than Nolasco and Hughes.

 

Is he going to be part of the Twins' rotation in the future, unlike the 2 aforementioned? 

 

Yes.  Hopefully.

But his future is not now and these 2 are better than him.  Heck Dean outpitched him yesterday.  Got to go with the hot hand. 

Prior to last nights start, Berrios certainly was pitching better than Hughes.

[alarp33]

The best part of these arguments is the people pretending to know where players confidence levels sit (Berrios, Buxton, etc.).  Maybe, just MAYBE, they pitched or played a crappy game, something that's certainly happened in their careers before, but are professionals capable of moving onto the next day.  MAYBE, the confidence takes a real hit when they are told they aren't Major Leaguers anymore... 

[Pitz]

I completely agree. This decision was either absolutely wrong or completely correct.

And I cannot believe how anyone could argue either side!

 

This thread is funny. I love sports.

 

[USAFChief]

 

Prior to last nights start, Berrios certainly was pitching better than Hughes.

Huh?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Getting his brains beat out won't do anyone any good.  

 

People are right that a few extra wins in 2016 won't matter, so even if Berrios IS better right now--which he isn't--that's an argument AGAINST leaving him here rather than one FOR it.

So much this.  Some people here have some troubling notions of player development. Repeated exposure of a struggling prospect is the bluntest of developmental tools.  Even Berrios must see that he's not getting the job done; now he can focus on getting himself right without the big league pressure to win.  

[twinsnorth49]

 

  Got to go with the hot hand. 

http://replygif.net/i/633.gif

[adorduan]

 

The best part of these arguments is the people pretending to know where players confidence levels sit (Berrios, Buxton, etc.).  Maybe, just MAYBE, they pitched or played a crappy game, something that's certainly happened in their careers before, but are professionals capable of moving onto the next day.  MAYBE, the confidence takes a real hit when they are told they aren't Major Leaguers anymore... 

A crappy game, or a bunch of crappy games?  If getting sent down breaks them, they were never gonna make it.

[gocgo]

Braves fired their manager after a 9-28 start.

[alarp33]

 

A crappy game, or a bunch of crappy games?  If getting sent down breaks them, they were never gonna make it.

 

If having a few bad starts breaks them, they were never going to make it either.  I'm not the one who has suggested their confidence was already shattered  

[DaveW]

 

Huh?

 Berrios was brought up April 27th, since April 27th Phil Hughes has had 3 starts.

Here is his line:

11IP 19H 15 ER

 

That is a 12.27 ERA, and hitters have had a 1.180 OPS against him, basically everybody who has played against Hughes since Berrios was called up have been hitting like Barry Bonds.

 

So yes, like I said, Berrios certainly was performing better than Hughes was.

[Dr. Evil]

I'm pretty sure Berrios felt pretty crummy last night. Pitch location aside, the ball clearly does magical things when released from his hand. For me, a much better way of handling this would be to put your arm around him and let him know that rough outings are just part of the process and that you believe in him. Maybe mention that he should take a look around the clubhouse and notice that other players are struggling too. Not just him. It's hard to establish yourself in these circumstances. We get that. Just keep focusing on doing the things that cause success and you will get there. 

 

Or, you could just kick an already hurting kid in the jejunum and tell him to go work it out in the minors.

 

We are not increasing our chances of winning by inserting someone else. Nor should we care at this point.

[adorduan]

 

Berrios has been the Twins minor league pitcher of the year the last two seasons.

So what? He had control problems in spring training, he had control problems in AAA and he had control problems in the majors. He needs to get that figured out.