Dear Terry Ryan... Take a look at the AL Central and factor that in

[sane09]

 

Terry Ryan and the Twins don't care....They don't want to get past the first round of the playoffs.

That flies in the face of human nature.

TR and the Twins are competitors, just like most other humans on this planet, especially ex-professional baseball players.

So, I believe you are incorrect.

[mikelink45]

I have and will always push to get the young guys in.  The only moves I want to see are serious upgrades, not fillers or even worse blockers.  This has been my mantra since I found TD, but my frustration with TR is that he really does not seem to have a plan.  His big picture roster construction might be a genius effort, but if so I am bewildered.  We are consistent in trading CFs. getting 1b/dh players, but what is the direction we want to go.  Dear Pohlad, tell Terry the fans are what the Twins need for you to make money and he could communicate a little.  Sincerely - an old guy fan. 

 

By the way - thanks for helping fill this wild and crazy Hot Stove winter.  You are doing better than the Twins.

[sane09]

 

 

"So, I believe you are incorrect."

It just occurred to me that I would have many more friends if I had used THAT statement instead of:

" Either get your head out of your xxx, or get yourself a glass belly-button so you see the world correctly!"

I wouldn't have lost jobs, nor been ejected from games, nor bleeped-off family and friends.

Why does clarity come so late?

[magiklair]

 

That flies in the face of human nature.

TR and the Twins are competitors, just like most other humans on this planet, especially ex-professional baseball players.

So, I believe you are incorrect.

You didn't take my full statement into your quote. But I'll rephrase it.. If the Twins really wanted to win badly and wasn't about money. They would have signed a FA reliever. Spend the 5-8 million and we'd be looking good right now. Almost every other team as beefed up their bullpen, but us..

[drjim]

You didn't take my full statement into your quote. But I'll rephrase it.. If the Twins really wanted to win badly and wasn't about money. They would have signed a FA reliever. Spend the 5-8 million and we'd be looking good right now. Almost every other team as beefed up their bullpen, but us..

I suspect it is more years than money.

 

They are (potentially) trading some value this season for more risk certainty going forward.

 

It is certainly fair to criticize this tradeoff but to merely say they don't care is false.

[shimrod]

I don't think Ryan had any intention of signing Park. I think the Twins decided to get cute and win the bid, then low ball to the point Park doesn't sign. The Twins get their 12 million back and Park doesn't wind up hurting them playing for anyone else, all while looking like the Twins are trying to improve while not spending any actual money.

 

I think they were as shocked as anyone else when Park actually accepted their low-ball offer. That would explain the log-jam at DH/first base if the Twins never expected Park to join the team.

 

I have no insider information, just reading between the lines.

[howieramone2]

 

You also were talking about parades two months ago if I remember right.  Perhaps we shouldn't count our chickens yet.

Actually, I talked about the parade beginning in 2015, in 2013. Thanks for reminding me.

[drjim]

 

I don't think Ryan had any intention of signing Park. I think the Twins decided to get cute and win the bid, then low ball to the point Park doesn't sign. The Twins get their 12 million back and Park doesn't wind up hurting them playing for anyone else, all while looking like the Twins are trying to improve while not spending any actual money.

 

I think they were as shocked as anyone else when Park actually accepted their low-ball offer. That would explain the log-jam at DH/first base if the Twins never expected Park to join the team.

 

I have no insider information, just reading between the lines.

 

Which lines? Do tell.

 

And I'll take it a step further. I understand being critical of the team, not agreeing with the direction they take, pleading for more aggressiveness, wanting certain free agents/trades, wanting younger players to play over supposed mediocrity, wanting people fired, hoping for new ownership, etc. Millage on these issues will and should vary over a population of fans.

 

But if you honestly think the team would go to such conspiratorial lengths to avoid spending money and adding talent, how can you possibly support them?

[Platoon]

I doubt anyone sat down and conspired this deeply to pull of the ploy to constrain Park from others, but I do think it has been done. But remember there was no risk whatsoever for anyone to win the bid, it was refundable. Since the Twins never outbid anyone for almost anything, it's strange they won this one? In regards to posts about Ryan's proactivity, or lack thereof, I don't think anyone can truly say he is aggressive. Please don't confuse aggressive with careless. My measure is that many of his roster moves in season are done as the result of injury, not a desire to change the talent structure. And in this off season they had glaring excesses, and glaring needs. One has been modestly addressed, the others remain wait and see. I looked in the Webster! Wait and see was not in the definition of "aggressive"

[brvama]

 

..... Since the Twins never outbid anyone for almost anything, it's strange they won this one?....

NEVER????  Arguments using never or always, or any absolute term, is due to fail.   

 

The first player that springs to my mind where the Twins outbid others is Sano!  But I guess he isnt much to brag about.

[jimmer]

 

NEVER????  Arguments using never or always, or any absolute term, is due to fail.   

 

The first player that springs to my mind where the Twins outbid others is Sano!  But I guess he isnt much to brag about.

Who was GM when that happened?

[Platoon]

NEVER????  Arguments using never or always, or any absolute term, is due to fail.   

 

The first player that springs to my mind where the Twins outbid others is Sano!  But I guess he isnt much to brag about.

You are right about absolutes! My bad. But as to Sano, if I remember correctly from news reports and from the Sano documentary, concerns about the validity of his age was a factor in many teams dropping out on him, leaving I think Pittsburgh and the Twins. So yes we won a bid, but there were definitely mitigating factors. And of course we came in first in the Ricky Nolasco sweepstakes!

[brvama]

 

Who was GM when that happened?

That post only referred to the Twins Organization, not the GM of record.  My point is we need to be careful about how we state our arguments. 

[brvama]

 

You are right about absolutes! My bad. But as to Sano, if I remember correctly from news reports and from the Sano documentary, concerns about the validity of his age was a factor in many teams dropping out on him, leaving I think Pittsburgh and the Twins. So yes we won a bid, but there were definitely mitigating factors. And of course we came in first in the Ricky Nolasco sweepstakes!

Yes Platoon, some teams backed out on Sano.  Mitigating circomstances influence all teams decisions to go after a player or back away.  That's part of the due-diligence. 

 

With all due respect, i think it is difficult to argue that the Twins don't win any bidding contests.  However, the one's that they do are certainly subject to criticism, ie Nolasco, Nishi, etc. 

[jimmer]

 

That post only referred to the Twins Organization, not the GM of record.  My point is we need to be careful about how we state our arguments. 

that is true and your point is certainly taken. I'm speculating, without being a mind reader or lawyer of course, that since TR has been GM for 16 of the last 20 years, most people are talking about TRs time when talking about Twins trends.  And it seems that would make sense since he's currently the GM and it's his trends that matter, not Smith's.

[DocBauer]

 

I don't understand all the add a veteran outfielder talk. That just adds another guy to block Buxton and Kepler, even if it was just a one year deal guy.

 

This team has had a top 3 farm system for years. Let them play. That's where the improvement will come from.

Where this is coming from, I believe, is the plan/wish/assumption of Plouffe being moved and Sano taking over 3B. Something that I think the majority of us believed was going to happen.

 

Under that assumption, and the assumption that Kepler would probably need at least a little AAA time, the prevailing thought has been, IMO, that the team needs a solid RH OF to team with Arcia in a corner spot. Would it have to be a big contract FA signing? No. Just a solid, quality RH OF for a year or so. Soon, you're right, we will have Kepler, and hopefully Walker as well.

[shimrod]

"But if you honestly think the team would go to such conspiratorial lengths to avoid spending money and adding talent, how can you possibly support them?"

 

I'm a Minnesota homer born and bred; they're my team. I was a fan long before Pohlad bought them.

 

And if you don't think a fan can support the team while despising the owner/GM/coach/whatever you haven't been paying attention.

 

My point is, the team added talent at a position they already had a log jam. They surprised everyone by winning the bid and Park surprised everyone by signing for so little. If Park had held out for more money would these boards be filled with fan despair for our prospect of filling the DH/1st base position? Not likely.

 

I think the last concern anyone had entering this offseason was the Twins DH/

[Kwak]

I believe any change in "aggressiveness" is from ownership--not from Ryan.  Remember a year ago last october and the press conference?  "...$85MM [budget] is about right...".  Before the year was out about $25MM was committed for 2015 (then add the additional years of Santana's contract) and Santana, Hunter, and Stauffer were signed as free-agents.  Hmm.  Ownership changed their mind--Ryan just filled their orders.

[brvama]

 

that is true and your point is certainly taken. I'm speculating, without being a mind reader or lawyer of course, that since TR has been GM for 16 of the last 20 years, most people are talking about TRs time when talking about Twins trends.  And it seems that would make sense since he's currently the GM and it's his trends that matter, not Smith's.

Jimmer, you are probably right about many of the readers/posters equating TR's time to the Twins.  But you can't then ignore the Smith era if you also refer to the Twins (insert TR) trends as having influence on how things are done with the organization. 

 

Now, I am not going to continue with this line of discussion because it reminds me too much like one I would have with my wife.  Wherein, the whole point is forgotten or ignored, and the discussion comes down to a "depends on what is is" line of rhetoric. 

 

With that you can have the final word on this.

[Monkeypaws]

If the Twins end up behind Chicago or Detroit next season, Eric Cartman will eat my underwear.

[sane09]

 

I don't think Ryan had any intention of signing Park. I think the Twins decided to get cute and win the bid, then low ball to the point Park doesn't sign. The Twins get their 12 million back and Park doesn't wind up hurting them playing for anyone else, all while looking like the Twins are trying to improve while not spending any actual money.

 "the Twins decided to get cute".." all while looking like the Twins are trying to improve while not spending any actual money"

So you think that if the Twins offer to Park was so low that he rejected it, THAT would be a PR victory for the Twins?

You must think that the combined IQ's of the Twins FO and Twins fans is close to the high temperature in Bemidji today.

Who would approve of the Twins low-balling their offer to recover their bid?

Do you think Park would have remained silent about the Twins low-ball offer?

THAT conspiracy theory is so far out in leftfield, that it needs to be covered in pregame ground-rules.

[Platoon]

Didn't this happen in the past with a Japanese bid situation, some team trying to keep another team from getting a player? I don't think the Twins did this, I just don't think the Twins ever really expected to win the bid. If we truly aren't going to trade Plouffe, we needed another DH type, like I needed to write another post on this topic!

[notoriousgod71]

 

Didn't this happen in the past with a Japanese bid situation, some team trying to keep another team from getting a player? I don't think the Twins did this, I just don't think the Twins ever really expected to win the bid. If we truly aren't going to trade Plouffe, we needed another DH type, like I needed to write another post on this topic!

 

Pretty sure Oakland won the Iwakuma bid originally with no desire to sign him, only to prevent him from signing with a division rival. Of course he ended up signing with Seattle a couple years later anyway.

[sane09]

 

Didn't this happen in the past with a Japanese bid situation, some team trying to keep another team from getting a player? I don't think the Twins did this, I just don't think the Twins ever really expected to win the bid. If we truly aren't going to trade Plouffe, we needed another DH type, like I needed to write another post on this topic!

We may not need another DH "type" (Vargas, Arcia, ), but we DID need a FUNCTIONAL DH. (hopefully Park)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Actually, I talked about the parade beginning in 2015, in 2013. Thanks for reminding me.

 

So perhaps we might learn from that mistake about how quickly we timeline things that are not so certain.

[DaveW]

 

We may not need another DH "type" (Vargas, Arcia, ), but we DID need a FUNCTIONAL DH. (hopefully Park)

We actually had one in sano if they were so keen on keeping Plouffe (which it appears they are)

[sane09]

 

We actually had one in sano if they were so keen on keeping Plouffe (which it appears they are)

Problem is: Sano has to replace Hicks in the OF, because Hicks had to be traded for a catcher resulting In: DH being left open for Park.

If you followed that, maybe you can explain it to me.

[The Wise One]

 

The point was with the money they were able to spend on Pelfrey, Stauffer and Hunter last year, they could use somewhat close to that same amount and sign Cueto this year.

my  bad that I forgot to also remind you what the Twins save in payroll one year does not carry forward to the next year

[Platoon]

my  bad that I forgot to also remind you what the Twins save in payroll one year does not carry forward to the next year

No, it carries into .the owners pockets. Which is fine, it's their team. But since we aren't quite at the luxury tax level, I don't think there is another reason for not spending it?

[Platoon]

We may not need another DH "type" (Vargas, Arcia, ), but we DID need a FUNCTIONAL DH. (hopefully Park)

I would be willing to bet that by the time that they are through, the best numbers of the quartet of Park, Vargas, Arica,and ABW will not be in the Park column. Which one? Not sure, my bet would still be Arcia. Of course the biggest difference is three are here, one is out of options, and there's a chance they now lose him, and two are in control. The other one is a flyer who put numbers up in what appears to be low grade MiLB.