Ryan: Sano to the OF

[Oldgoat_MN]

While it is true that Sano has never played outfield, consider this:

 

Sano had never, NEVER played first base in a game since he signed with the Twins at age 16.

 

Last season he spent parts of 2 games there.

 

I think Molly has his own opinions and as long as he's in charge we may be surprised from time to time.

[Mike Sixel]

The certainty that some speak about Sano's defense or ability to play OF astounds me.

[gmarais66]

 

While it is true that Sano has never played outfield, consider this:

 

Sano had never, NEVER played first base in a game since he signed with the Twins at age 16.

 

Last season he spent parts of 2 games there.

 

I think Molly has his own opinions and as long as he's in charge we may be surprised from time to time.

It's not exactly a stretch to move from third base to first base. Going from third base to the outfield is a huge stretch, especially for someone of Sano's size.

[Loosey]

 

I do honestly think that is Ryan's plan.  But I think he'll change his plan if someone makes a strong offer for Plouffe.  But maybe Sano's defense at third isn't as good as the Twins want.  There is no need to move Plouffe if the Twins don't trust Sano's defense.

But his defense in the outfield is as good as the Twins want.  Personally I would rather have an average defensive 3rd Baseman than an average or bad outfielder.   If he misses one at 3rd its a single, if he misses one in LF or RF its turns a single or out into a double or triple.  I don't think Ryan is lying that Sano is in the OF, what he isn't saying is, until or if Plouffe is moved which I believe will happen.

[Halsey Hall]

 

http://www.kfan.com/onair/twins-blog-38057/twins-announce-plans-to-move-sano-14169360/

 

Could still be posturing for a Plouffe trade, but I'm not so sure, at this point.

I think this is TR's plan, and I'm dead set against it. 

[nytwinsfan]

 

Moving Sano to the outfield now is a sign that the organization is making a push for the playoffs. They are trying to maximize value of their current 'core' team. If not now, when? Plouffe has two years of arbitration left. Dozier is a free agent in two years. Mauer has three seasons left. If there is a possibility of playoff run with these players on the roster, then now is the time. If this core of players is not enough, they can dismantle the team next offseason.

Umm, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 . . . ???

 

I mean, yes, Dozier and Plouffe are good players and Mauer is now mediocre, but if that is our "core" then we are not going to be winning any World Series. Sorry, but we are not.  5-7 WAR from your "core" isn't going to cut it. The "core" is Sano, Buxton, Berrios, May, Dozier (for the next 3 years), Kepler, Rosario, Park and maybe a few others like Duffey, Gibson, Escobar, etc.  Then hopefully in the next couple years, add Jay, Gordon, and maybe one or two others.

Let's try to win this year, sure, since a lot of those future "core" players are already or will soon be here. But let's not lessen our chances in 2017 through 2022 by having Sano hurt himself playing a position he has never played before or give up on third base unnecessarily. The value of having Sano at 3B (if the Twins think he can play there without being a huge defensive liability) will be dramatic in the coming years. It will allow us to have Park plus another big masher in the lineup, whether that masher is Arcia, Vargas, or yet-to-be determined DH free agent.

[gunnarthor]

I do wonder what the Twins think of Sano's defense.  They sent him to winter ball to play third and he apparently never got into the OF.  But if the Twins think he can't play third - that he'd be Nick Castenellos out there - then they should keep Plouffe.  

[rico7961]

If Atlanta offered Shelby Miller for Plouffe, do you think TR tries to make that deal? Understanding some minor leaguer's probably would be involved either way.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I do wonder what the Twins think of Sano's defense.  They sent him to winter ball to play third and he apparently never got into the OF.  But if the Twins think he can't play third - that he'd be Nick Castenellos out there - then they should keep Plouffe.  

 

they had him practicing in the OF, which is what you'd want at this stage, right? 

[sane09]

 

I'm told Ryan is one of the most honest men around, and he's said this more than 1 time now.

Mike, you took the words right off my keyboard.

Ryan DOES  NOT LIE!

His reputation for honesty is more important to him than winning baseball games. (and can be detrimental)

I have never heard any description of TR by peers, co-workers or employees that says differently.

He is one of the most trusted people in public life that I have ever seen.

If nominated, he might run and get shutout in an election.

He has no chance in politics.

Honesty kills!

[nytwinsfan]

 

Mike, you took the words right off my keyboard.

Ryan DOES  NOT LIE!

His reputation for honesty is more important to him than winning baseball games. (and can be detrimental)

I have never heard any description of TR by peers, co-workers or employees that says differently.

He is one of the most trusted people in public life that I have ever seen.

If nominated, he might run and get shutout in an election.

He has no chance in politics.

Honesty kills!

Yeah, but if he traded Plouffe tomorrow because he got a good offer he would still not have lied, so that doesn't mean anything. He never said he would never trade Plouffe, just that his plan was to move Sano to the OF. That doesn't rule out a good offer changing his mind.

[Winston Smith]

If Atlanta offered Shelby Miller for Plouffe, do you think TR tries to make that deal? Understanding some minor leaguer's probably would be involved either way.

Terry would fall out of his chair and scream yes before hit the floor!

[sane09]

 

Yeah, but if he traded Plouffe tomorrow because he got a good offer he would still not have lied, so that doesn't mean anything. He never said he would never trade Plouffe, just that his plan was to move Sano to the OF. That doesn't rule out a good offer changing his mind.

That's true.

Everyone needs plan of escape from their plan.

[Mike Sixel]

He might change his mind, but I believe this is his plan. And, I for one, have no issue with it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, but if he traded Plouffe tomorrow because he got a good offer he would still not have lied, so that doesn't mean anything. He never said he would never trade Plouffe, just that his plan was to move Sano to the OF. That doesn't rule out a good offer changing his mind.

 

Except that's not what people are typing, is it? They are saying he's lying to get leverage. That this is not his plan.

[DocBauer]

 

Yeah, but if he traded Plouffe tomorrow because he got a good offer he would still not have lied, so that doesn't mean anything. He never said he would never trade Plouffe, just that his plan was to move Sano to the OF. That doesn't rule out a good offer changing his mind.

This.

 

Saying you have a plan to use your best players, at once, in the best way that you can...RIGHT NOW...is one thing. "Here is how we can get all our best players on the field based on the current roster construction..."  Doesn't mean it will stay that way.

 

As a fan of both Plouffe and Sano, I don't like the move at all. I understand that as we sit here today, there are questions about the construction of the OF. Right now, Rosario is the only certainty of starting. There is a question about Buxton being in AAA to begin the season. Hunter is gone. We're not sure if we have anything in Arcia or not. Kepler, probably, isn't ready yet. Walker needs more time.

 

So how exactly does moving a guy who's never played the OF before do anything to "fix" the OF situation? I'm not saying he couldn't develop in to a decent to good OF, but it would take time. And by that time, wouldn't Kepler and Buxton and maybe Walker be up? And by that time, wouldn't/couldn't Plouffe maybe be gone, creating a hole at 3B?

 

Not saying Sano will be a certain HOF 3B...but...if you had a young Mike Schmidt-like slugger who could play a decent to good 3B, would you toss him to the OF? Or would you keep in at 3B and use other options for the OF that you A) already have in your system, or can acquire through trade and FA easier than you can a top power, run producing power bat at 3B.

[bird]

 

I have to imagine the Kepler's - Arcia's - Walker's probably wish they were left off of the 40 man at this point.  Better chance of making another team by getting drafted in the Rule 5 than playing regularly for the Twins any time soon.  If the Twins moves work out - each of the above guys becomes a 4th outfielder IMO.  Not enough spots to play everybody.

 

Some may only be 4th outfielders, but I think their upside is much better than a 4th outfielder.  IMO

 

I wouldn't plan on big futures from either Walker or Arcia. We better just hope for a surprise improvement from one or both. If Kepler is the stud that a couple sources are now projecting him to be, it at worst means we have another valuable trade chip. I'd hope those guys are only concerned with their own development. Arcia in particular better have a sense of urgency.

[formerly33]

 

Except that's not what people are typing, is it? They are saying he's lying to get leverage. That this is not his plan.

Heh...let's just assume that Terry Ryan is open to trading Plouffe, but nothing's set in stone which is why plan A is to move Sano to the outfield. Plan B may be more or less preferable, but lower on the totem pole because Ryan doesn't know if he'll be able to get what he thinks Plouffe is worth in return.

 

And remember, it's every person's prerogative to change their mind. (I paraphrased that a bit on purpose since I generally dislike forcing the gender binary on neutral phrases).

[amjgt]

 

I have to imagine the Kepler's - Arcia's - Walker's probably wish they were left off of the 40 man at this point.  Better chance of making another team by getting drafted in the Rule 5 than playing regularly for the Twins any time soon.  If the Twins moves work out - each of the above guys becomes a 4th outfielder IMO.  Not enough spots to play everybody.

 

Some may only be 4th outfielders, but I think their upside is much better than a 4th outfielder.  IMO

 

LOL @ Kepler being left off the 40-man. Every single team would put in a claim on him and/or he would be a 100% lock to be the first person chosen in the Rule 5 draft.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

LOL @ Kepler being left off the 40-man. Every single team would put in a claim on him and/or he would be a 100% lock to be the first person chosen in the Rule 5 draft.

The suggestion wasn't that it would be for the Twins benefit, but for the player's benefit.  Which is undoubtedly true.  Of course, it would be for Sano's benefit to secure his outright release too, among other things.

[Willihammer]

All it will take is one injury to Sano/Park/Plouffe/Mauer to make this a moot point. I'd put the over/under of that happening to at least one of them (cough Mauer cough) at 90%.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Except that's not what people are typing, is it? They are saying he's lying to get leverage. That this is not his plan.

 

Some people are saying he is "lying to get leverage."  Other people with more nuanced, thoughtful views -- which I think is the majority on this site btw -- are saying that Ryan is emphasizing one absolutely true fact, that his current default plan is to start Plouffe at 3B and move Sano to RF, while not ruling out another mutually compatible fact, that if someone makes a good offer for Plouffe, he will pull the trigger and move Sano to 3B. That is not "lying for leverage" but it is emphasizing some facts and omitting or avoiding answering questions about others to (maybe) gain leverage. I'm an attorney (feel free to respond with lawyer jokes -- they don't bother me), so to me there is a huge difference there. The former is dishonest, the latter, in the context of a competitive environment (team v. team, or business v. business, not spouse v. spouse or friend v. friend) is not.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree......but others don't. I think he thinks "right now, this is my plan". 

[USAFChief]

Right now, if the plan isn't Sano in RF, who IS in RF?

[Ncgo4]

There are more open questions with the Twins than two hours of Family Fued. Let's look at some of them.

 

Who plays:

 

1. First Base. Mauer, Park, Sano, Kepler,

2. Third Base. Plouffe, Sano.

3. DH. Park, Sano, Kepler, Walker, Mauer

4. Outfield. Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Arcia, Walker, Sano

 

Of course Buxton, Arcia, Park, Kepler & Walker aren't even on the MLB squad...YET. This is the issue, we have way too many people to fill 6 positions. Overriding all of this is a 3 year $60 million plus contract for Joe Mauer, compounded by a plethora of young highly rated youngsters who could this year demand (via their performance) playing time.

 

First, Mauer and his contract. Joe has under performed his position for two years. He has hit for marginal average with no power. He could come back at any time and be a high average low power 1st basemen. He could continue to deteriorate to become an undeniable liability. I suggest that the Twins consider his contract a fixed cost. Sort of like the electric bill. They signed the contract...pay it. Just don't consider it when filling out the lineup card. The biggest asset the Twins have is a spot in the lineup. If Kepler bats .325 in Rochester while hitting for power, bring him up. If Walker's power continues and his strike out rate drops just a little he has got to be in the MLB line up. Same with Buxton and Arcia.

 

The twins should not let Mauer's contract dictate the lineup. If he needs to be benched do it and eat the contract. The Twins need to get the best available bats and gloves into the lineup. Given the number of young players, the salary level isn't out of hand even with Mauer out of the lineup.

 

Even more interesting will be if Sano opens the season in an extended Sophomore slump or if Park can't hit a slider and a slider is all they throw him.

 

Our guy in the Manager's seat is going to earnn every penny of his salary this year.

[amjgt]

 

The suggestion wasn't that it would be for the Twins benefit, but for the player's benefit.  Which is undoubtedly true.  Of course, it would be for Sano's benefit to secure his outright release too, among other things.

 

Yeah, that's like saying it would be to the benefit of Trevor Plouffe for the Twins to decline arbitration.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The certainty that some speak about Sano's defense or ability to play OF astounds me.

 

I agree, I don't know how he's going to play out there.  Though I do believe the skill set he has may not make him much of an outfielder.  But he could prove me wrong.

 

That said, the reverse is also true - people seem to speak pretty certainly about his inability to play third also and give him no chance of improving there.

 

I believe this is all rooted in a VERY misguided attachment to Plouffe.

[Shane Wahl]

I don't even know what to say about this.

[amjgt]

Maybe this has been asked and I missed it, but I keep seeing people trying to tie John David Murphy's success to this.

 

What does that have to do with anything? None of these guys can play catcher and if JDM doesn't work out at catcher, he's gone.

[amjgt]

The question that is stuck in my mind is this....

 

If we feel comfortable moving our 6'5" 260lb masher to OF, why the hell didn't we at least TRY Mauer out there 3 years ago?