Papelbon fights Harper

[gunnarthor]

http://deadspin.com/jonathan-papelbon-and-bryce-harper-brawl-in-nationals-d-1733270056

 

The gift that keeps on giving, gives some more. I guess this is the opposite side of the 'chemistry matters' coin.  Papelbon apparently attacked Bryce Harper (the face of the freaking franchise) for not running out a pop up.  It looks like a pretty good tussle, actually.  When the Nats traded for Papelbon, the were 1 game ahead of the Mets.  Since that trade, which angered their very good closer, Drew Storen who took the demotion very poorly, the Nats have gone 27-29 and fallen out of the playoff race. 

 

Nats fans are taking this well - http://www.federalbaseball.com/2015/9/27/9403741/nationals-drop-12-5-decision-to-phillies-jonathan-papelbon-and-bryce-harper-dugout-fight

[bluechipper]

That's awesome. Papelbon is a clown, but its fun to have those types of guys around (just not on the Twins).

[biggentleben]

This stems from Harper calling out Papelbon for a crap play where he hit Manny Machado last week (after multiple attempts) because Harper knows that the next day, he's getting head hunted when his pitchers do that crap.

[Thrylos]

That happens when a team does not meet expectations.   I expect wholesale changes in the Nationals this off-season starting with the field staff.    Williams lost his clubhouse. 

Don't have a text of what what said when in that clubhouse (especially what Harper said to Papelbon), other than what it was televised, so cannot have full opinion about who is at wrong (other than Williams) here.  Harper should had ran that play out, it was fair and it could had dropped for a double potentially.  I don't care who you are, you got to run those out.

 

That said, fighting at the clubhouse like that is not a good thing.

[mikecgrimes]

On a pop up like that isn't the object just to get to first?  Calling out hustle on a play like that is pathetic to begin with.  It was a mistake for him not to be sent home on the spot, worse yet the bring him in he gives up the lead and then seems to throw at a batter.  Suspend him without pay for the rest of the year.

[gunnarthor]

Yeah, I am stunned that Paps was left in the game.  Maybe Williams really doesn't like Harper or likes the "fire" that Paps is showing?  Or was he just too petrified to do something?  I'm not sure.  The Nats' blogs are saying that all the players hate the clubhouse atmosphere and a lot of that is laid at Williams feet.  I really think a bigger part of managing is controlling the clubhouse and player's egos rather than making a lineup or pitching change. 

[ashbury]

I really think a bigger part of managing is controlling the clubhouse and player's egos rather than making a lineup or pitching change. 

It's hard for me to rank the various aspects of managing - several are of the nature "if you mess this up, it doesn't matter how great you are at the rest of it."

 

Keeping a good clubhouse, year after year, is one of these.

[drock2190]

Couldn't happen to a nicer pair of guys...

 

 

 

 

 

But if they want to fix the problem and trade the Twins Harper, I'd be down

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Gardy to the rescue!

 

 

(mostly serious)

[mikecgrimes]

 

Gardy to the rescue!


(mostly serious)

 

I won't believe it until an obscure blogger reports it.  Wait do you count?

[Winston Smith]

Well they do have  a  "proven closer",  Gardy would be happy with that.

[USAFChief]

Harper was benched last year for hustle issues IIRC. I don't think it's unreasonable for teammates, managers and coaches, and fans to expect effort from players. Run the friggin thing out.

[David HK]

Sheesh, what a mess.  Yeh, OK, so a teammate chirps about running out a popup, and ya chirp back- and end of story, unless....  You're a dck like Paps.  He should have been taped up and stuffed in the laundry basket after the game, not to be heard from again until the spin cycle.  But no, his Mgr sends him to the mound right after?  W,  T,  .... you know the last one.

Wow, when a team stops caring at the tail end of the season, whew.

 

Shades of Schadenfreude, tho-  reminds me of this one, eh-what?

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/10/2/1066391/twins-angry-at-one-of-their-own

 

[jimmer]

 

On a pop up like that isn't the object just to get to first?  Calling out hustle on a play like that is pathetic to begin with.  It was a mistake for him not to be sent home on the spot, worse yet the bring him in he gives up the lead and then seems to throw at a batter.  Suspend him without pay for the rest of the year.

Yes, that is the object.  And he would have easily been at 1B if it dropped.

 

Apparently what he should have done is sprint all the way and then if the ball dropped, he could have been thrown out at 2nd or caught in a rundown.  Then people would be talking about how it was a dumb baseball play :-)

[jimmer]

 

Sheesh, what a mess.  Yeh, OK, so a teammate chirps about running out a popup, and ya chirp back- and end of story, unless....  You're a dck like Paps.  He should have been taped up and stuffed in the laundry basket after the game, not to be heard from again until the spin cycle.  But no, his Mgr sends him to the mound right after?  W,  T,  .... you know the last one.

Wow, when a team stops caring at the tail end of the season, whew.

 

Shades of Schadenfreude, tho-  reminds me of this one, eh-what?

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/10/2/1066391/twins-angry-at-one-of-their-own

Only a complete jackwagon starts a fight with a teammate in the dugout for all to see.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm told by some around here that this sort of nonsense is "good for the game"

 

I continue to be utterly perplexed by that conclusion.

[USAFChief]

Setting aside the fact Papelbon is a jerk, I disagree that players shouldn't run out pop ups.

 

One is bad for people around him, but has no lasting effect.

 

One is bad for the game.

[clutterheart]

I would like Gardy to coach the Nats.   He could win a WS with that talented bunch and I would like Gardy to win one.

 

But mostly I would like to see him start Francoeur over Harper a few times a week

[biggentleben]

 

I would like Gardy to coach the Nats.   He could win a WS with that talented bunch and I would like Gardy to win one.

 

But mostly I would like to see him start Francoeur over Harper a few times a week

 

They're going to trade for Francoeur?

[HitInAPinch]

The funniest part isn't the article.  Way down at the bottom of the page under the "Recommended Stories", well, you gotta read the titles yourself.  Made my entire morning!  

 

[ashbury]

 It looks like a pretty good tussle, actually. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLiiI_VocQ

 

Team chemistry is a tricky thing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Harper was benched last year for hustle issues IIRC. I don't think it's unreasonable for teammates, managers and coaches, and fans to expect effort from players. Run the friggin thing out.

 

classic blame the victim stuff.......he was attacked for no reason. That's on the attacker, not the guy being attacked.

 

40+ years after blaming the victim was written, and people still do it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Setting aside the fact Papelbon is a jerk, I disagree that players shouldn't run out pop ups.

One is bad for people around him, but has no lasting effect.

One is bad for the game.

 

Actually, I can think of two instance of pulled hammies this year resulting in lost playing time, doing the fake hustle crap.

[USAFChief]

I can separate the physical attack--for which I blame Papelbon--and what I believe is Harper's attitude that he is bigger than the game, for which I blame Harper.  

 

He's not bigger than the game.  I expect hustle from the players I pay to watch, and I'd be surprised if many players were on Harper's side in this issue.  

 

Side note:  I don't even know what "fake" hustle is.  I do, however, recognize a lack of hustle when I see it.   

 

I also sometimes sense the tendency of some fans to make excuses for certain players because "he's really good at baseball."  That's fine, but I don't share the same sentiments.

 

 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

I think what mike means by "fake hustle" is the idea that you run full speed like a bat out of hell no matter the situation.  

 

I look at this situation and think him running full speed is completely irrelevant.  If it drops, he's at first, hustle or not and if it's caught he's out. 

[biggentleben]

 

The funniest part isn't the article.  Way down at the bottom of the page under the "Recommended Stories", well, you gotta read the titles yourself.  Made my entire morning!  

 

Whale photography and paying off credit card debt?

[gunnarthor]

I'm not sure if Harper has hustling issues.  His stat line certainly suggests he doesn't.  He might have a prima donna attitude that rubs teammates the wrong way - he certainly wouldn't be the first great player that did that.  Maybe his teammates think he's just counting the days until the Yankees give him 400 million (God knows I would).  but I don't think he did anything wrong on that play.  He popped up and looked disgusted at himself like a hundred players have done without incident - including Mauer, Sano, Dozier and Plouffe.  So I'm not sure what Paps was thinking - the two probably just don't like each other seeing as how Harper didn't stand up for Paps a few days ago and Paps will be suspended for throwing at (equal ass-hat) Machado.  

 

What I think is interesting, so far, is how few teammates have really gotten into this.  You don't see a lot of 'We stand with Harper' comments, which I think is a bit surprising.  That's a toxic clubhouse.   

[USAFChief]

 

I think what mike means by "fake hustle" is the idea that you run full speed like a bat out of hell no matter the situation.  

 

I look at this situation and think him running full speed is completely irrelevant.  If it drops, he's at first, hustle or not and if it's caught he's out. 

Well, I obviously disagree.  You have no idea when/if a ball might drop, at which point you might be on second instead of first.  It costs nothing to run hard.

 

It's also been an ongoing issue for Harper, which everyone seems too willing to excuse, IMO.

[biggentleben]

 

I think what mike means by "fake hustle" is the idea that you run full speed like a bat out of hell no matter the situation.  

 

I look at this situation and think him running full speed is completely irrelevant.  If it drops, he's at first, hustle or not and if it's caught he's out. 

 

That's just the issue. I had the pleasure of seeing Harper twice during my honeymoon this summer. Against Milwaukee, he essentially created the first run of the game by hustling hard down the line on a possible double play ball, causing the second baseman to rush and air mail the throw, which allowed a runner on second when the play started to score. In the same game, he busted hard after a "gapper", picking the ball up on one hop and immediately firing to second on a ball that in many cases would have been to the wall.

 

In Scherzer's near-perfect game, Harper went all out to snare a foul fly ball, ending up 3 rows deep in the stands after diving for the ball and coming up short.

 

However, he hit a comebacker right to the pitcher in Milwaukee and jogged it out, and the group I was with only remembered that about Harper's hustle or lack thereof...

[gunnarthor]

Really interesting article on the fight - http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-fight-current-ex-players-support-pitcher-long-time-coming-092715

 

According to the FS writer, most players actually sided with Paps over Harper.