Pelfrey needs a big start

[jokin]

 

I think Pelfrey's start was fine, he got knocked around a bit in the end, but the "loss" was more about Price continuing his ownership of the Twins' bats. The team had several chances to score runs early, and Price just happens to be better than the rest of the starting pitchers in either dugout.   

 

Price earned the win for his great pitching performance more than Pelfrey deserved a loss for his adequate start.

 

That being said, the bullpen is the bigger concern, and maybe Pelfrey in the pen and May in the rotation makes the team better?

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. ..lose late with a reliever, it's on the reliever. Lose late with a starter, it's on the manager.

I'll give Molitor a small bit of slack here...none of us want the to see the bullpen in a close game, I'm sure he doesn't either. But you can't let your starter lose the game in the 8th. You just cant.

 

Actually, I would have liked May to throw that 8th inning and beyond in a tie game better than any other option available to Molitor.I'm surprised a guy as cerebral as Paul doesn't see what he had available to him last night that could have avoided that loss.Once the Twins got to the Tiger pen, I'd take May and then Perk over anything Detroit could put in to pitch.

[Linus]

I'm confused why they aren't using May more.They obviously have big concerns about the pen because they are trying to avoid using them (which I get).  But then why wouldn't you just let May have a shot at important innings?  I was never worried about the whole "too many starters" thing because I felt they would use the excess to fix the pen.  Pretty hard to do that when May doesn't pitch.

[DaveW]

I too would have brought may out for the 8th, if he looked solid bring him out for the 9th and 10th as well. At that point Perkins in the 11th and 12th (obviously all of these are "if needed") then roll the dice the rest of the game if need be.

2-2 game late is a perfect spot to bring in May since he is apparently the only guy who can go more than one inning in Molly's bullpen.

 

Boyer should not be brought into "big" moments, but then again fien looked like garbage the other day as well.

 

Go get Benoit ASAP!

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Hopefully the loss was a learning experience for Molitor - that trusting Boyer to lock things down in that kind of situation is not his strength.  

 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

I'm confused why they aren't using May more.They obviously have big concerns about the pen because they are trying to avoid using them (which I get).  But then why wouldn't you just let May have a shot at important innings?  I was never worried about the whole "too many starters" thing because I felt they would use the excess to fix the pen.  Pretty hard to do that when May doesn't pitch.

It seems like they still think of May as a starter, which is good in some ways because he should have kept his spot. It's not good because they are using him like a mop-up / long reliever instead of putting him into high leverage situations, where a guy with his pitch mix can be the most valuable.  

It's like they are trying to save him for starting again later in the year... (or sooner?)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hopefully the loss was a learning experience for Molitor - that trusting Boyer to lock things down in that kind of situation is not his strength.  

Yeah, Boyer is fine as a sixth inning, maybe even a seventh inning guy in a pinch but he's the type of reliever you bring on to start an inning because he can't miss bats and that will lead to runs if guys are on base when he toes the rubber.

[diehardtwinsfan]

May is a starter who is in the pen right now due to a lack of SP spots.  I'd have him doing a lot of the 3 inning save type varieties.  I'd have had no problems bringing him out the 8th and telling him he's pitching for a while. 

[jimmer]

 

May is a starter who is in the pen right now due to a lack of SP spots.  I'd have him doing a lot of the 3 inning save type varieties.  I'd have had no problems bringing him out the 8th and telling him he's pitching for a while. 

May has pitched once since his demotion 9 days ago. I can't imagine this is ideal or good use of a guy who should have never lost his spot in the rotation.  

 

'Hey, let's move him to the pen because the pen needs help and he's a strikeout guy and perfect for it.'

 

Then use him once in a week and a half...

[Danchat]

 

I'm confused why they aren't using May more.They obviously have big concerns about the pen because they are trying to avoid using them (which I get).  But then why wouldn't you just let May have a shot at important innings?  I was never worried about the whole "too many starters" thing because I felt they would use the excess to fix the pen.  Pretty hard to do that when May doesn't pitch.

I don't understand it, but Molitor doesn't seem to want to use May in a high leverage situation.

 

They also told May "not to look too closely at his move to the bullpen". I think May is back in the rotation after the All-Star break, so that's why they aren't using him in high leverage situations.

[jimmer]

 

I don't understand it, but Molitor doesn't seem to want to use May in a high leverage situation.

 

 

or ANY situation.  ONE appearance since he was moved to the pen

[drjim]

 

or ANY situation.  ONE appearance since he was moved to the pen

 

He wasn't going to pitch for 3-4 days after his previous start. Could have worked once or twice since his previous outing, but they did win the two games before his last outing and yesterday so hard to argue too much. Yesterday was probably the most logical situation, but they aren't going to bring him in mid-inning with runners on.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He wasn't going to pitch for 3-4 days after his previous start. Could have worked once or twice since his previous outing, but they did win the two games before his last outing and yesterday so hard to argue too much. Yesterday was probably the most logical situation, but they aren't going to bring him in mid-inning with runners on.

 

why not? And if not, he shouldn't be in the pen......

[jokin]

 

He wasn't going to pitch for 3-4 days after his previous start. Could have worked once or twice since his previous outing, but they did win the two games before his last outing and yesterday so hard to argue too much. Yesterday was probably the most logical situation, but they aren't going to bring him in mid-inning with runners on.

 

 

????  Uhh, they didn't win yesterday.   The Twins failed to put him in a game in a logical situation on his scheduled bullpen day.  And he certainly could have thrown the 9th inning in the loss against KC on Sunday.   And why wouldn't you bring your best option to get a K not named Glen Perkins into a mid-inning RISP situation?

[LaBombo]

 

It seems like they still think of May as a starter, which is good in some ways because he should have kept his spot. It's not good because they are using him like a mop-up / long reliever instead of putting him into high leverage situations, where a guy with his pitch mix can be the most valuable.  

It's like they are trying to save him for starting again later in the year... (or sooner?)

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.

 

Until last night, not using May had seemed.. well, suboptimal at the very least, for both the team and for May.

 

But May's non-use last night marked the transition from 'suboptimal' to all-out dysfunction.  It's as if Molitor knows May should be starting, is instead trying to do the next best thing by reserving him as a de facto spot starter when the starter gets blown out early, and has ended up accomplishing nothing.

 

It's reached the point now where it's just a horse race to see whether the misuse of May will cost the team's record or May's development more.

[jimmer]

'The first time through the order, opposing batters put up a .704 OPS against starting pitchers, but that jumps to .738 the second time through and .776 the third time through. Most of the gap in starter/reliever performance comes from the fact that starting pitchers have to face hitters several times per game. Even with the fact that starters have to pace themselves for longer outings and have to face line-ups built to counteract their own platoon splits, the gap between OPS versus starters (.704) on the first match-up and OPS versus relievers on the first match-up (.691) is only 13 points. This data suggest that a significant part of the advantage of being a reliever is the one-and-done nature of the match-ups.'

 

Notice how starting pitchers get hit harder every turn through a lineup?  To ask a guy to go into the 8th inning in a tie game and into his 4th turn in the lineup is a recipe for disaster.  Especially if that pitcher isn't an elite type pitcher.

[LaBombo]

 

 And why wouldn't you bring your best option to get a K not named Glen Perkins into a mid-inning RISP situation?

 

And even without the open base, May would have been a better option than T-Ball Boyer, whose walk rate sits at 2.58 per 9.    May has reduced his to below 2.    And of course there's May's K rate, which is more than double that of T-Ball's appalling 3.99 per 9.

[jokin]

 

And even without the open base, May would have been a better option than T-Ball Boyer, whose walk rate sits at 2.58 per 9.    May has reduced his to below 2.    And of course there's May's K rate, which is more than double that of T-Ball's appalling 3.99 per 9.

 

"T-Ball"...  Apt.  I like it.

[drjim]

 

????  Uhh, they didn't win yesterday.   The Twins failed to put him in a game in a logical situation on his scheduled bullpen day.  And he certainly could have thrown the 9th inning in the loss against KC on Sunday.   And why wouldn't you bring your best option to get a K not named Glen Perkins into a mid-inning RISP situation?

 

Sorry typed that wrong. Meant to say they won the two games between his last appearance and yesterday.

 

And people really don't understand why they would be hesitant to put May in the middle of an inning with runners on base?

[drjim]

 

why not? And if not, he shouldn't be in the pen......

 

I imagine the Twins prefer he wasn't in the pen. So yes.

[LaBombo]

 

"T-Ball"...  Apt.  I like it.

 

It's probably too harsh, especially given his 2 point something ERA that leads non-Perkins Twins relievers (yikes).

 

But it seems like every time I see him pitch, it's almost as if he's carefully studying the batter's warmup swings so that he knows where to put the ball for him.  Every pitch is a Charlie Brown comebacker in the making.

 

Boyer, Thompson, and the dear, departed Tim Stauffer have been to the bullpen this year what PJ Walters, Cole De Vries, and Andrew Albers were to the 2013 rotation, which is a collection of placeholders to watch until the real guys get here.

[jimmer]

 

I imagine the Twins prefer he wasn't in the pen. So yes.

if they preferred he wasn't in the pen, he wouldn't be in the pen.

[drjim]

 

if they preferred he wasn't in the pen, he wouldn't be in the pen.

 

Clearly not.

 

I suppose they could have sent him back to AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sorry typed that wrong. Meant to say they won the two games between his last appearance and yesterday.

 

And people really don't understand why they would be hesitant to put May in the middle of an inning with runners on base?

 

Nope, I don't understand. He is more likely to product an out than many of the other relievers, so I'd expect him to be in the game. If they won't use him there, they are wasting valuable resources.

[drjim]

 

Nope, I don't understand. He is more likely to product an out than many of the other relievers, so I'd expect him to be in the game. If they won't use him there, they are wasting valuable resources.

 

Are you sure he is more likely? Warming up quicker than usual and entering a game in a situation he never has before?

 

This is a short term solution, they don't want him to be a reliever long term, they want to protect him, and they want to use him in controlled situations. Doesn't mean just mop up time, but starting innings clean.

[LaBombo]

 

Clearly not.

 

I suppose they could have sent him back to AAA.

 

Or released him.

 

Neither option seems a great deal less likely than the odds of a demotion to the bullpen for the starter who led the rotation in most metrics that do not predate the Wright brothers' first flight.

[jokin]

 

Clearly not.

 

I suppose they could have sent him back to AAA.

 

They apparently prefer to now have two fragile flowers in the pen that they refuse to use in certain game-winning situations (May and Graham), despite knowing how shaky Boyer, Fien and the others are, and pushing starters into less than optimal scenarios in late-game situations. Even the explanation that Pelfrey is going to be traded at the break makes little sense, is May really going to be "damaged" by making a couple of extra relief appearances this week?

[nicksaviking]

 

Are you sure he is more likely? Warming up quicker than usual and entering a game in a situation he never has before?

 

This is a short term solution, they don't want him to be a reliever long term, they want to protect him, and they want to use him in controlled situations. Doesn't mean just mop up time, but starting innings clean.

 

As Perkins and May are the only bullpen members with any reasonable ability to strike batters out, I would think they would be the only logical pitchers to bring in with runners in scoring position. 

 

I saw May in a bases loaded jam with no outs and with runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs in two of his last four starts.  He got out of both giving up nary a run and getting 5Ks in the process.  I'd say he's been in similar pressure situations before.

[jokin]

 

 

Are you sure he is more likely? Warming up quicker than usual and entering a game in a situation he never has before?

 

This is a short term solution, they don't want him to be a reliever long term, they want to protect him, and they want to use him in controlled situations. Doesn't mean just mop up time, but starting innings clean.

 

More fragile flower nonsense, if they really believe that.   Purposely reducing the chances to win winnable games- like last Sunday and yesterday is indefensible.

 

May in 2015- 

 

K% in High Lev-   27% 

K% w/ RISP and 2 outs-  22% 

Slashline w/ RISP and 2 outs-  .200/.250/.367 

[drjim]

 

As Perkins and May are the only bullpen members with any reasonable ability to strike batters out, I would think they would be the only logical pitchers to bring in with runners in scoring position. 

 

I saw May in a bases loaded jam with no outs and with runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs in two of his last four starts.  He got out of both giving up nary a run and getting 5Ks in the process.  I'd say he's been in similar pressure situations before.

 

While true, he didn't enter the game in these situations.

 

I don't disagree with any of this or the other comments, I just think people should be realistic with how they are going to use May. Heck, he might be back in the rotation coming out of the break.

[HitInAPinch]

 

I put the loss on scoring 2 runs.

Yeah, David Price is one tough sob.