Heyman: Twins may be early buyers

[SwainZag]

 

A rebuilding should not take seven years to even be good. If they lose 90 again........so when do they actually try to be good. When is this mythical future?

 

7?! The Twins fielded a team a team coming off a division title in 2011, a year which they thought they would compete again.  They didn't start rebuilding until realistically after 2012 with Revere and Span trades.  They have been realistically been rebuilding for 2.5-3 years, not seven.  

 

 

[JustinCB]

Why? Why should a fan keep paying for crappy teams? Why should a fan be patient? Why should we tolerate being bad for decades? You can choose to be that way, why should I?

Baseball is an elusive lover.

[SwainZag]

 

Even with the losing streak, the Twins are relevant so far this year. They need to keep trying to improve this team, not at the expense of the future. They have a bunch of prospects and they don't have spots for all of them. A trade of some prospects for Jonathan Lucroy makes a lot of sense to me. Adding a left hander with a chance to get hitters out really would help. 

 

I'd love for them to get Lucroy, but I can't imagine the cost.  A good defensive catcher who turns 29 today, who finished 4th in MVP voting last year and has 2 relatively cheap years left on his deal.  I think it would take quite the haul to bring him in.

[JustinCB]

Twins aren't the type of organization that is going to force the issue. They have enough talent in the system that it'll happen naturally. Going to be within the next couple years. Enjoy it!

[stringer bell]

 

I'd love for them to get Lucroy, but I can't imagine the cost.  A good defensive catcher who turns 29 today, who finished 4th in MVP voting last year and has 2 relatively cheap years left on his deal.  I think it would take quite the haul to bring him in.

I speculated earlier that it would take three prospects (outside the top 5) one starter, one reliever and a position player. I suppose if they think they're closer to contention, the Brewers could accept Arcia in place of a prospect. Is this not enough? How much is enough?

[nicksaviking]

So, again , punt the season and give the finger to fans and the MLB players?

I wasn't expecting them to win this year. I hope We were all wrong but I think the only hope for winning now or in the future is the development of the prospects. I'm really not opposed to trading the prospects, there is too much redundancy, I'm just mostly opposed to taking on more vets and/or long term deals; the team already is tied to some regrettable deals. Ideally I'd prefer to flip some of the Twins redundancy for non-40 man youngsters. After the AA crop the system looks pretty thin anyway.

 

I'd also respect Ryan a ton more if he gave the fans the finger this year. That would be gutsy. I also don't think trading Plouffe, Pelfrey, Milone, Fein or whomever would actually impact the record as much as it would impact public relations.

[SwainZag]

 

I speculated earlier that it would take three prospects (outside the top 5) one starter, one reliever and a position player. I suppose if they think they're closer to contention, the Brewers could accept Arcia in place of a prospect. Is this not enough? How much is enough?

 

I don't see how Arcia would be an asset to an NL team.  Honestly, I don't know how much.  A cost controlled player under the age of 30 at the shallowest talent position in the game.  It just seems like it would take a haul

[DaveW]

You would give up far less in terms of $$$ and prospects to get Weiters and Ian Desmond, as rentals.

Except both of those teams will likely be buyers as well.

[DaveW]

I am getting warm to the idea of firguing out how to trade for Tulo which really kills two birds with one stone

[Mike Sixel]

7?! The Twins fielded a team a team coming off a division title in 2011, a year which they thought they would compete again.  They didn't start rebuilding until realistically after 2012 with Revere and Span trades.  They have been realistically been rebuilding for 2.5-3 years, not seven.

 

People are saying wait unto 2018........

[jokin]

 

Except both of those teams will likely be buyers as well.

 

Yes, but both teams aren't fans of expiring contracts that aren't pulling contract weight.  I honestly don't know what they'd take in trade off of the Twins that would help them, other than clearing those contracts off the books- perhaps to use the funds in another trade?

[USAFChief]

Twins aren't the type of organization that is going to force the issue. They have enough talent in the system that it'll happen naturally. Going to be within the next couple years. Enjoy it!

I'm not saying it was yours, but I've read a variation of this sentiment for the past three years.

 

"The parades start in 2013!"

 

"Just be patient, by 2014 May and Meyer will be leading this team to multiple playoff appearances,"

 

"Hold on, in 2015 Buxton and Sano will be firmly established superstars outperforming Willie Mays and Mike Schmidt."

 

Now it's wait to 2016, when the minor leagues will once again magically provide everything needed.

 

There's even a post advocating trading everything away that won't be here in 2017 or 2018, so I guess the timeline is some point beyond that.

 

Just my opinion, but that sounds like the KC route...wait two decades for your next playoff appearance. I don't think that's necessary, in fact quite the opposite. And that's not patience, it's blind adherence to a bad plan.

[Squirrel]

 

I'd love for them to get Lucroy, but I can't imagine the cost.  A good defensive catcher who turns 29 today, who finished 4th in MVP voting last year and has 2 relatively cheap years left on his deal.  I think it would take quite the haul to bring him in.

I can and I think it will be more than I'm willing to part with which makes it unrealistic, imo.

[twinsnorth49]

I'd love for them to get Lucroy, but I can't imagine the cost. A good defensive catcher who turns 29 today, who finished 4th in MVP voting last year and has 2 relatively cheap years left on his deal. I think it would take quite the haul to bring him in.

Depends on your definition of a haul, I think a haul might be worth it. Not a Sano/Buxton haul but just about anyone else should be in play realistically.

[Squirrel]

 

Depends on your definition of a haul, I think a haul might be worth it. Not a Sano/Buxton haul but just about anyone else should be in play realistically.

But that's what I think it would take … and I personally think, if I were on the other side, I wouldn't take less than at least one of those two, along with others. It's not something I willing to part with as I don't think it would be worth it. Guess we just disagree.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I speculated earlier that it would take three prospects (outside the top 5) one starter, one reliever and a position player. I suppose if they think they're closer to contention, the Brewers could accept Arcia in place of a prospect. Is this not enough? How much is enough?

If the Brewers were close to contention, why would they trade Lucroy? At least, for anything less than a king's ransom?

[twinsnorth49]

But that's what I think it would take … and I personally think, if I were on the other side, I wouldn't take less than at least one of those two, along with others. It's not something I willing to part with as I don't think it would be worth it. Guess we just disagree.

Well if you're saying it's not worth Sano and or Buxton then we agree.

 

I wouldn't do that either but I'd certainly explore a host of other options, maybe none would do it, oh well

[stringer bell]

 

I don't see how Arcia would be an asset to an NL team.  Honestly, I don't know how much.  A cost controlled player under the age of 30 at the shallowest talent position in the game.  It just seems like it would take a haul

Brewers are heavily RH and Arcia offers LH power.  Pitching is the position that everyone needs and if a top ten starter and reliever plus Arcia could do the trick, I'd do it. I don't think Arcia is just a DH and I think he has value. 

[stringer bell]

 

 

If the Brewers were close to contention, why would they trade Lucroy? At least, for anything less than a king's ransom?

I was talking about years.  If the Brewers think they can contend in two years, they might want Arcia.  I actually think they could and hence they would like to have someone like Arcia as opposed to a third prospect.

[spinowner]

 

I speculated earlier that it would take three prospects (outside the top 5) one starter, one reliever and a position player. I suppose if they think they're closer to contention, the Brewers could accept Arcia in place of a prospect. Is this not enough? How much is enough?

The Brewers would be the ones to decide how much is enough. And I'm pretty sure that their enough would be way more than TR's enough.

As I have said before, the time for a trade like that would be to fill in one gap on a nearly complete team, not to fill in one gap on a team with several other gaps. My opinion is that it's unrealistic to try to assemble a WS-winning team in 2015. I know this is not a universally-held opinion but I just don't see the sense in trying to make the many upgrades needed to make this year's team a true contender. Too many changes at too high a cost.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I was talking about years. If the Brewers think they can contend in two years, they might want Arcia. I actually think they could and hence they would like to have someone like Arcia as opposed to a third prospect.

Seeing where Arcia is right now, I am not sure if he is any closer to being a plus MLB contributor than most prospects, particularly in the outfield .

[JustinCB]

I'm not saying it was yours, but I've read a variation of this sentiment for the past three years.

"The parades start in 2013!"

"Just be patient, by 2014 May and Meyer will be leading this team to multiple playoff appearances,"

"Hold on, in 2015 Buxton and Sano will be firmly established superstars outperforming Willie Mays and Mike Schmidt."

Now it's wait to 2016, when the minor leagues will once again magically provide everything needed.

There's even a post advocating trading everything away that won't be here in 2017 or 2018, so I guess the timeline is some point beyond that.

Just my opinion, but that sounds like the KC route...wait two decades for your next playoff appearance. I don't think that's necessary, in fact quite the opposite. And that's not patience, it's blind adherence to a bad plan.

I grew up in Chicago (and have since moved back unfortunately) listening to idiots say the "next year" thing about the cubs forever (and to be honest... Twins Cubs world series 2018 could be a thing realistically) This isn't that. Were talking about ONE proper rebuild they're working on. I'd just like to see it through. See what they have here. I've been the most pessimistic twins fan I know for a good long while here, but I feel like they're on the cusp of something pretty good right now.

[twinsnorth49]

I grew up in Chicago (and have since moved back unfortunately) listening to idiots say the "next year" thing about the cubs forever. This isn't that. Were talking about ONE proper rebuild they're working on. I'd just like to see it through. See what they have here. I've been the most pessimistic twins fan I know for a good long while here, but I feel like their on the cusp of something pretty good right now.

Why can't a proper rebuild involve getting major league players in exchange for probably redundant prospects?

[BoomBoom]

This would help Twins playoff push and Brewers rebuilding movement 

 

Aramis Rameriz (last year contract - solid 3B until Sano / or DH)

Jonathan LuCroy (have a few years to work out extension)

Victor Roache (former #1 draft pick OF)

Jed Bradley (former #1 draft pick P)

Francisco Rodriguez (just for playoff run)

Dustin DeMuth (3B - Twins drafted him in 2013)

 

for

 

Oswaldo Arcia (brother Orlando (SS) is Brewers #1 prospect)

Trevor Plouffe (3rd baseman of the future & Brauns close friend)

Brandon Peterson (2016 relief help for bull pen)

Tyler Duffy (possible 2016 bullpen or rotation help)

Adam Brett Walker (hometown kid w/1B or OF capabilities)

Danny Santana (perfect utility IF/OF)

Alex Meyers (possible starter or replaces Rodriguez)

 

None of these guys is a definite corner piece for Twins, so why not get your catcher of the future and a couple more playoff pieces for 2015.

 

[JustinCB]

There is just no way they are going to get the pieces back to make it happen with the current roster. Why give up anything until they have the real pieces in place and they can reassess the weaknesses they have at that point?

[Andrew]

I speculated earlier that it would take three prospects (outside the top 5) one starter, one reliever and a position player. I suppose if they think they're closer to contention, the Brewers could accept Arcia in place of a prospect. Is this not enough? How much is enough?

The Brewers view Lucroy as the guy to build around. If they lose him they will want someone they can build around in return. That means at least one of Buxton and Sano and possibly one or two of Berrios/Stewart/Meyer.

[Hrbowski]

 

In response to Answerman, this may not be popular with many people but I think Kohl Stewart is a tradeable commodity. We have an abundance of young A/AA pitchers like Gonsalves, Hu, Felix Jorge, and Matt Bats who appear to have as good or better stuff than Stewart. Also any 2nd base prospect is tradeable with Dozier locked in. Every conversation seems to get back to Mauer being the elephant in the room, but that is exactly what he is, preventing young studs from taking over at 1B. Sano, Arcia, Vargas, Adam Brett Walker, and Max Kepler could all be 1b/DH players.

 

Twins can't overachieve all season, so we have to be happy the pitching is keeping us in games as our hitting fails recently. We have exactly what we hoped for in April, being competitive and creating a market for some of our players. Is Pelfrey in the long range plans? Is Nolasco? Milone? I hope TR is totally healthy because I think he is going to be very busy in the very near future. I hope he doesn't trade away any of our top prospects unless it is to get us a Paul Goldschmidt type.

Stewart has better stuff than any of those pitchers you listed above.

[Hrbowski]

 

This would help Twins playoff push and Brewers rebuilding movement 

 

Aramis Rameriz (last year contract - solid 3B until Sano / or DH)

Jonathan LuCroy (have a few years to work out extension)

Victor Roache (former #1 draft pick OF)

Jed Bradley (former #1 draft pick P)

Francisco Rodriguez (just for playoff run)

Dustin DeMuth (3B - Twins drafted him in 2013)

 

for

 

Oswaldo Arcia (brother Orlando (SS) is Brewers #1 prospect)

Trevor Plouffe (3rd baseman of the future & Brauns close friend)

Brandon Peterson (2016 relief help for bull pen)

Tyler Duffy (possible 2016 bullpen or rotation help)

Adam Brett Walker (hometown kid w/1B or OF capabilities)

Danny Santana (perfect utility IF/OF)

Alex Meyers (possible starter or replaces Rodriguez)

 

None of these guys is a definite corner piece for Twins, so why not get your catcher of the future and a couple more playoff pieces for 2015.

That is way too much to give up, and the only thing the Twins would be getting in return that would be of any help would be Lucroy.

[howieramone2]

I'm not saying it was yours, but I've read a variation of this sentiment for the past three years.

 

"The parades start in 2013!"

 

"Just be patient, by 2014 May and Meyer will be leading this team to multiple playoff appearances,"

 

"Hold on, in 2015 Buxton and Sano will be firmly established superstars outperforming Willie Mays and Mike Schmidt."

 

Now it's wait to 2016, when the minor leagues will once again magically provide everything needed.

 

There's even a post advocating trading everything away that won't be here in 2017 or 2018, so I guess the timeline is some point beyond that.

 

Just my opinion, but that sounds like the KC route...wait two decades for your next playoff appearance. I don't think that's necessary, in fact quite the opposite. And that's not patience, it's blind adherence to a bad plan.

To pretend this was the sentiment of the board is patently false. I would expect more from a mod.

[USAFChief]

There is just no way they are going to get the pieces back to make it happen with the current roster. Why give up anything until they have the real pieces in place and they can reassess the weaknesses they have at that point?

My problems with this are:

 

there's no guarantee "the real pieces" will ever be in place,

 

if they someday are in place, there's no guarantee there won't be other missing pieces by then, and

 

By the time this takes place, you might not have the extra pieces needed to address the other weaknesses, or the pieces you need might not be available.