Hunter ejected (takes Molly with him)

[Reider]

Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and Torii Hunter did that tonight. I have no problem with that as it was clearly an outside ball. Also, it was good to see Molitor share his thoughts with the umpire as well. He needs to have his players' backs and he had Hunters' tonight.

[Boom Boom]

I was with him until the jersey tossing. There's riling up the troops and there's over-the-top and acting like a 4-year old. He crossed the line. That said, I'm over it. It should be a fine only.

Actually it should be a suspension, if only because he gave Jeff Kellogg a stiff-arm shove.

[Platoon]

Baseball has the funniest tantrums.   Imma look real tough and spit and yell, oh someone hold me back, I don't know what I'll do if you don't hold me back, no seriously see how fierce I look hold me back, ah see your lucky they held me back ump here have some laundry.

 

He looked like Mad Dog Vachon in the good old AWA days.

[Platoon]

Sometimes you have to throw a tantrum like a 4 year old. It was not close to being a strike. Hunter's job is not only being our RF, a part of his job is to show the other guys on this team when enough is enough. A Bull**** call will elicit a reaction that no umpire wants to deal with and Hunter gave it to him good and plenty. The next time that ump is calling balls and strikes during a Twins game, he will be a little more on point about how he calls strikes, especially against Hunter.

 

Certainly, one would like to see these things avoided, but this was a good lesson to younger guys and when the HP ump watches the game video, he will know, he was dead wrong.

 

Bravo.

I agree, but some of Hunters problems, were caused by his complaint about strike one, a pitch Foxy said was a strike, and his recent whining about balls and strikes in general. He and Dozier have not been real happy about the strikes zones of many umps. But as Dick/Bert often allude to, if you show the guy up on an early strike, don't be taking anything else off the corner!

[TheLeviathan]

 

I agree, but some of Hunters problems, were caused by his complaint about strike one, a pitch Foxy said was a strike, and his recent whining about balls and strikes in general. He and Dozier have not been real happy about the strikes zones of many umps. But as Dick/Bert often allude to, if you show the guy up on an early strike, don't be taking anything else off the corner!

 

Great point.  Just like Hunter has a right to stand up for himself, so does the umpire.

[Mike Sixel]

If you get tossed when you can still win.....and are replaced with a much worse player for 6 innings, does that help or hurt your team? Do people think after this the ump would be better for 6 innings?

[bird]

I want to see Joe Mauer get in the grill of an umpire. Just once.

[tobi0040]

 

I want to see Joe Mauer get in the grill of an umpire. Just once.

 

I think we need to take a step back and ask what the end game is here.  Next time Torii is hitting with this ump, is he more or less likely to call balls?  If he is not, what did this accomplish?  If we say "he is teaching the young guys to say enough is enough".  Well what exactly does that mean and will that help us win games?  And given the shove I would not be surprised that Torii gets suspended.

Obviously, it is not Joe's temperament to get in an ump's face. But I also think Joe has a good, respectful relationship with the umps. He seems to get the benefit on pitches that are 50/50. I can't say that is not a superior approach.

[gocgo]

I'm a little league coach, but comparing what Tori did to little league is silly.  These are major league guys who get paid based on their numbers.

 

Here is what I see it accomplished:

a) National news covered it...not just ESPN or sports channels...it was on the morning news.  No ump wants to be on the national news for making a lousy call and I think we can all agree that it was a lousy call.  Guessing the other umps are thinking that they don't want it to be them making the news.

It showed fire.  It showed an expectation that we are never out of a game and just because the ump has dinner reservations isn't a reason to take away an at bat.

c) This was not just the result of a single bad call.  The strike zone was a mess all night.  Accepting bad umping shouldn't happen at a major league level, yet MLB makes it almost impossible to protest bad umping.  These guys are getting paid well, they should be held accountable.  A consistent strike zone shouldn't be that tough for guys that do this professionally.

[gocgo]

The beauty of this all is that the Twins will once again be written off by the media after being swept...now we can get back to work.

[gunnarthor]

 

Obviously, it is not Joe's temperament to get in an ump's face. But I also think Joe has a good, respectful relationship with the umps. He seems to get the benefit on pitches that are 50/50. I can't say that is not a superior approach.

Ignoring everything else, I'm not sure Joe is getting the benefit of the doubt. He's certainly been ringed up a lot on the outside low pitch this season.  And a lot of the time he shakes his head at the ump saying "that's not a strike" and walking back to the dugout.  So I'm not sure your theory is, in anyway, correct.

 

 

[twinsnorth49]

 

I thought the shirt thing was a little much. Sort of crossing the line into slapstick comedy.

 

You want to kick me out? Well then, maybe I'll just start taking my clothes off right here!

He's  no Ned Braeden, put it that way.

 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

What is the end game?

 

Getting in the umpire's face and getting ejected is a time-honored tradition in baseball that stretches back to the 1880s (when umpires were added to call balls and strikes). 

 

"People want ... good playing, with just enough kicking to make things interesting thrown in." "Kicking" in those days meant arguing with the umpire. [King] Kelly was one of the most demonstrative kickers though he noted that spectators enjoyed variety in umpire baiting. Praising Buck Ewing for playing ability, Kelly mentioned that Ewing also pleased crowds with his good-natured kicking which never left a sting behind. St. Louis Browns' manager-first baseman Charles Comiskey became one of the most notorious and articulate questioner of umpires' eyesight, while the great Chicago first baseman Adrian "Cap" Anson developed a whining style that earned him the nick name "Cry Baby."  . . . Umpires were obstacles to overcome for ... most players of the time.  --- Baseball in 1889: Players Vs. Owners by Daniel Merle Pearson

 

 

It's a long season, the Twins have played poorly in June, and things like this are intended to wake the crowd up and to show the team that you (you meaning Torii in this case) are still invested in the team, and that as the team's leader, you are willing to look foolish on their behalf.

 

It's a motivating tool, and whether is childish or illogical doesn't really factor into the conversation. It is a shared language of baseball that it is the team leader's job to pull focus away from the team's other struggles and take the brunt of the criticism.

 

 

[James]

This is my take on the whole thing:

 

1. The strike zone was a mess all game.  Molly was barking at Ripperger during the first inning.

 

2. This isn't the first time managers have complained about Ripperger's strike zone.  He's got a reputation of not being very good at calling balls and strikes.  Here's an article about Ron Roenicke complaining about Ripperger's strike zone last year: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/272986521.html

It's a pretty good rant.

 

3. I don't think Torii got thrown out on purpose or to send a message.  I think he was frustrated because they were about to get swept and he got called out on an obvious ball.  Torii even said he felt it was a revenge call for complaining about a previous pitch.  Torii seems to be a pretty emotional guy, and it's not the first time Torii has lost it on the field.  This was a case of being fed up and letting a bad strike caller know that he messed up.  That's it.  Torii kept yelling and throwing his jersey because he was straight up mad at the guy, not because he was trying to set an example for the young guys.  

[Linus]

I am in the camp of I don't think Torii did this as some sort of motivational tool.  The ump had a rough night and it did start in the first inning.  I'm not surprised he tossed TH as he was right in his face for a good while.

 

I'm really surprised he tossed Molly almost immediately (unless Molly said some magic words which seems pretty unlike him).  I think Molly is well respected by everyone around the league so that part of it will not reflect positively on the ump's reputation.

 

I've always believed that when an ump is having a bad night or blows the call, he's gonna have to give the player / manager a little longer leash.  You can't be crappy and expect nothing to come of it.

[DaveW]

I thought it was a little cheesy and over the top, but Hunter had good right to be upset, that called third strike was "retaliation" call bc Hunter was complaining about the 2nd pitch

[DaveW]

 

 

 

I'm really surprised he tossed Molly almost immediately (unless Molly said some magic words which seems pretty unlike him). 

 

 

It's an automatic ejection if the Manager comes out to argue balls and strikes.

[gocgo]

Remember when Lou Piniella picked up the base and threw it?  How can anyone say that T-Hunt went too far?  He took off his shirt!  

 

It worked for Brandi Chastain!  No one complained when she did it!....OK, I digress in my argument.

 

Back to Lou...now that guy could throw a fit.  He made sure that the ump got his point.  Over the top?  Sure, but when the umps calls are really bad, over the top is just what is needed.  Go Twins!  Go Torii!  Let's get fired up!

[Linus]

 

It's an automatic ejection if the Manager comes out to argue balls and strikes.

I understand that.  Most umpires in that situation will let the manager make his case and then decide if he gets tossed.

[gocgo]

Here is a compilation of some of the most epic meltdowns in baseball history for your viewing enjoyment.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/throp5/7-epic-baseball-manager-ejections-to-celebrate-ins-ld61#.idGEz32vjN

[DaveW]

 

I understand that.  Most umpires in that situation will let the manager make his case and then decide if he gets tossed.

I dunno, Molitor had been chirping all night, most umps I think we run him the minute he ran out and started yelling.

[Linus]

 

I dunno, Molitor had been chirping all night, most umps I think we run him the minute he ran out and started yelling.

Could be, as he was chirping all night.  I just think that bad umps with quick trigger fingers end up with bad reputations within the game.  If you are not good, better not have rabbit ears because you are gonna hear about it.

[tobi0040]

 

Ignoring everything else, I'm not sure Joe is getting the benefit of the doubt. He's certainly been ringed up a lot on the outside low pitch this season.  And a lot of the time he shakes his head at the ump saying "that's not a strike" and walking back to the dugout.  So I'm not sure your theory is, in anyway, correct.

 

The only year that I could find data for both Mauer and the league average of pitches outside the zone that were called as strikes was 2012.  The league average was 7.2%, Joe's as a hitter was 6.3%.

 

Mauer;s OSTR
 

2010 8.50%
 

2011 7.90%
2012 6.30%
 

2013 6.50%
 

2014 9.30%

 

http://www.banishedtothepen.com/joe-mauer-must-adapt-in-order-to-remain-useful/

[Hrbowski]

The most ridiculous thing about it is how Ripperger blatantly told Molitor that he was having a good night. Players have a much better understanding of the strike zone than umpires, and when an umpire who is as bad as Ripperger says that to someone with an understanding of the zone that is as good as Molitor's or Torii's, I think that umpire has some serious problems, and should not be anywhere near a baseball field.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I understand that.  Most umpires in that situation will let the manager make his case and then decide if he gets tossed.

I think umpires have started cracking on down on any arguments, since the shift to replay.

 

If Molitor came out primarily to clarify what just happened and to restrain Torii, that probably would have been fine, but Molitor instantly started complaining to the ump too.  That's not tolerated anymore.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Here is the strike zone map from last night's game:

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/zoneTrack.php?month=6&day=10&year=2015&game=gid_2015_06_10_kcamlb_minmlb_1%2F&prevDate=0610

 

Only one strike call fell outside the typical zone (checked line), and it was to the benefit of a Twins pitcher (red square).  And it looks like Twins pitchers only lost 1-2 calls that should have been strikes (green squares), as compared to perhaps 5-6 for Royals pitchers (green triangles).

[Otto von Ballpark]

You can isolate just the Hunter at-bat in Gameday Classic:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2015_06_10_kcamlb_minmlb_1&mode=classic

 

Everything was by the rulebook zone until the last pitch (was by Brooks Baseball was still in the typical zone).  The last pitch was closer to the zone than the two outside balls called earlier.

 

Hunter had a very similar pitch called a strike on him in his 6th inning at-bat (where he ultimately drew a walk).  Interestingly, Hunter didn't swing at any of the 11 pitches he saw in the 6th or 8th inning -- wonder if he was "testing" the ump by that point?

[tobi0040]

 

You can isolate just the Hunter at-bat in Gameday Classic:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2015_06_10_kcamlb_minmlb_1&mode=classic

 

Everything was by the rulebook zone until the last pitch (was by Brooks Baseball was still in the typical zone).  The last pitch was closer to the zone than the two outside balls called earlier.

 

Hunter had a very similar pitch called a strike on him in his 6th inning at-bat (where he ultimately drew a walk).  Interestingly, Hunter didn't swing at any of the 11 pitches he saw in the 6th or 8th inning -- wonder if he was "testing" the ump by that point?

 

Torii? Staging this to show off to the young guys that he can yell at an ump?  Of course.

 

99% of these situations where a player or manager acts all mad and gets in an ump's face is pure theatre.  Including this one. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Here is the strike zone map from last night's game:

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/zoneTrack.php?month=6&day=10&year=2015&game=gid_2015_06_10_kcamlb_minmlb_1%2F&prevDate=0610

 

Only one strike call fell outside the typical zone (checked line), and it was to the benefit of a Twins pitcher (red square).  And it looks like Twins pitchers only lost 1-2 calls that should have been strikes (green squares), as compared to perhaps 5-6 for Royals pitchers (green triangles).

 

But, but, bias!

[spinowner]

 

He's  no Ned Braeden, put it that way.

 

Great, great slapstick comedy (play on words intended). I think I remember Paul Newman saying it was one of the most fun-to-make movies of his career.