2016 Election Thread

[Craig Arko]

 

Yes.

 

And, yes, I am considering leaving the country. For real.

My wife is talking to people who've lived in Ecuador as a possible site for us.

[Vanimal46]

North, you have any openings at your company? I'm already practicing my Canadian accent and spelling. 

[Mike Sixel]

Dude, I work for a VERY LARGE insurance company....Obamacare isn't causing the price increases. It just isn't.

[Vanimal46]

 

Dude, I work for a VERY LARGE insurance company....Obamacare isn't causing the price increases. It just isn't.

What's your thoughts on that? 

It seems like insurance premiums are going up across the board.... My car insurance inexplicably went up as well this year. Thought it was going to decrease considering I'm 26, no accidents, haven't even been pulled over in 2+ years since moving to Austin. Shopped for quotes at numerous places, and all turned out to be the same range of $600-650 every 6 months. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

On the health insurance side, it is simple.

 

Drugs

Expensive equipment

Mergers in suppliers

 

Basically, insurance companies do their best to negotiate lower costs from suppliers of all kinds, but ultimately, we just pass those costs on. Costs are not going up because of Obamacare, not enough to justify these increases. There are issues with the exchanges, and our willingness to actually require people to have and pay for insurance (free market won't fix that, btw....the free market will just mean lots of people don't have insurance again at all), but the number of insured and any cost increases there PALE compared to other reasons. 

 

****this is my opinion, not necessarily my company's*******

 

As a guess, on the P&C and auto side......hurricanes, floods, and other things are on the rise. That makes us all pay more for homeowner's insurance. On the car side, I don't know. 

[Mike Sixel]

One more.....it is possible that companies went in with lower costs than maybe they should have, to buy market share, and are now increasing costs to the "real" cost. Possible. Just a hunch. Can't prove that....

 

****this is my opinion, not necessarily my company's*******

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yes.

 

And, yes, I am considering leaving the country. For real.

My wife and I were just discussing it this morning. My job is very transferrable and many countries would love to have my skillset.

 

Unfortunately, my wife is a lawyer. Those skills don't cross borders.

 

I doubt we'd move but I'd certainly look into it long and hard. My patience has run out with white people in this country. I have no desire to continue fighting upstream in a country that is so eagerly moving toward and accepting white nationalism. If a western Europe nation or Canada would have me, I'd take that opportunity.

 

I'm just... Tired. I'm tired of having arguments over matters the rest of the western world settled 2-3 decades ago. I'm tired of arguing whether 150 year old legislation should be struck from the Constitution. I'm tired of fighting obvious voter suppression tactics.

 

I'm tired of American white people, particularly the old ones who long for a past that never ****ing existed in the first place.

[jimmer]

Brock,

 

Your patience has run out with white people in this country? Really?

[jimmer]

Yes.

 

And, yes, I am considering leaving the country. For real.

i started working on convincing my wife to move out of the country when i retire in 15 years. Its pretty much a done deal. Now its about deciding where. Cueto, Ecuador is a real possibility as is Panama, Ireland,England and Scotland.

[Squirrel]

Brock,

Your patience has run out with white people in this country? Really?

For me, it's mostly white men, but yes, in general.

[Mike Sixel]

We have discussed doing it when we retire...but, you know, it's possible we have grandkids some day. that greatly impacts that plan, imo.

 

Among many other things to consider also.

[jimmer]

For me, it's mostly white men, but yes, in general.

good to know the millions of us are painted with the same brush because of some bad eggs. Here i thought the goal was trying to stop doing that.

 

I guess its okay to be racist against white people and sexist against white males.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm with Brock, I'm tired. Maybe I should stay and FIGHT....but I'm tired of climate deniers (and the disdain for education and science and math), and racists (of which I know there are plenty in other countries) and people not funding schools, and people wanting less restrictions on polluters, and a huge number of people wanting "freedom" to be white, straight, and certain type of Christian. That's not freedom.

 

Odds are, I wouldn't like most other countries either. Maybe iceland....

[gunnarthor]

Trump won't win.  Clinton will win but the House will continue to be held by the GOP who will make the next four years worse than the last four years as we deal with multiple House investigations of the Clinton Foundation, the email scandal and the Obama justice department.  We'll also continue to see minorities treated as second class citizens and judges continue to protect the justice system that allows it.  It'll suck.  

[Squirrel]

 

I'm just... Tired.

This sums it up for me.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

 

I'm tired of American white people, particularly the old ones who long for a past that never ****ing existed in the first place.

This isn't really who's voting for Trump, though.  This article was pretty good even if it was on a humor site.  We liberals aren't helping ourselves by painting Trump supporters as racist whites and therefore we can ignore their issues.  They are mostly poor and rural who have been abandoned (or feel abandoned) by our society.  Rural areas have not recovered from the economic downturn that Wall St caused but see that neither party is rushing to punish Wall St.  Why shouldn't they support a crazy outsider?

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

[Mike Sixel]

 

Trump won't win.  Clinton will win but the House will continue to be held by the GOP who will make the next four years worse than the last four years as we deal with multiple House investigations of the Clinton Foundation, the email scandal and the Obama justice department.  We'll also continue to see minorities treated as second class citizens and judges continue to protect the justice system that allows it.  It'll suck.  

 

I wish I could disagree with this.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This isn't really who's voting for Trump, though.  This article was pretty good even if it was on a humor site.  We liberals aren't helping ourselves by painting Trump supporters as racist whites and therefore we can ignore their issues.  They are mostly poor and rural who have been abandoned (or feel abandoned) by our society.  Rural areas have not recovered from the economic downturn that Wall St caused but see that neither party is rushing to punish Wall St.  Why shouldn't they support a crazy outsider?

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

 

Who largely also blame lazy minorities for taking their tax dollars, ignoring they pay less than city people do in taxes.....or am I wrong about that? Because that's what my relatives say...

[stringer bell]

 

My wife and I were just discussing it this morning. My job is very transferrable and many countries would love to have my skillset.

 

Unfortunately, my wife is a lawyer. Those skills don't cross borders.

 

I doubt we'd move but I'd certainly look into it long and hard. My patience has run out with white people in this country. I have no desire to continue fighting upstream in a country that is so eagerly moving toward and accepting white nationalism. If a western Europe nation or Canada would have me, I'd take that opportunity.

 

I'm just... Tired. I'm tired of having arguments over matters the rest of the western world settled 2-3 decades ago. I'm tired of arguing whether 150 year old legislation should be struck from the Constitution. I'm tired of fighting obvious voter suppression tactics.

 

I'm tired of American white people, particularly the old ones who long for a past that never ****ing existed in the first place.

I liked your post, but to be serious, I just don't know what to think. Smart people are voting for Donald Trump, not just dumb ones, and I can see no reason for that except that they may despise Hillary Clinton. I don't despise Clinton, but she is certainly an imperfect vessel for the progressive message and perhaps any message.

 

I really fear a trifecta of House and Senate control and Donald Trump in the White House, with Pence perhaps having a major role in all things not yuge enough for the Donald to care about. Certainly, the obstruction of the Supreme Court seat should be reason to punish the Republican right now, but apparently it isn't an issue anywhere.

 

Regarding the ACA, which is what it will be called when Obama is out of office (I think), my thought when it was passed was that it was too complicated to be a major success, but that parts of the law (no exclusions, more people covered) would help enough people to keep the law in force. Apparently not. Is there really an alternative, or are we just going to repeal the law and have the same swamp to navigate afterwards?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I liked your post, but to be serious, I just don't know what to think. Smart people are voting for Donald Trump, not just dumb ones, and I can see no reason for that except that they may despise Hillary Clinton. I don't despise Clinton, but she is certainly an imperfect vessel for the progressive message and perhaps any message.

 

I really fear a trifecta of House and Senate control and Donald Trump in the White House, with Pence perhaps having a major role in all things not yuge enough for the Donald to care about. Certainly, the obstruction of the Supreme Court seat should be reason to punish the Republican right now, but apparently it isn't an issue anywhere.

 

Regarding the ACA, which is what it will be called when Obama is out of office (I think), my thought when it was passed was that it was too complicated to be a major success, but that parts of the law (no exclusions, more people covered) would help enough people to keep the law in force. Apparently not. Is there really an alternative, or are we just going to repeal the law and have the same swamp to navigate afterwards?

 

No actual alternative has been put forth. can't wait for all those 23-26 year olds to lose their insurance, anyone really sick just getting thrown out of the pool, poor people being cut off from access. it's going to be so much better for all of them....

[gunnarthor]

 

Who largely also blame lazy minorities for taking their tax dollars, ignoring they pay less than city people do in taxes.....or am I wrong about that? Because that's what my relatives say...

There is certainly some resentment toward where they feel government dollars go - they think that the govt will rebuild inner cities (i.e. urban) but don't give the same care to rural Americans.  They also are told that we give lots of money/benefits to refugees or immigrants who can take their jobs.  Those aren't true - or are far more nuanced than that so for all intents and purposes they aren't true - but I don't think it's quite fair to label them as racists as we liberals typically imagine that word and ignore their concerns.  

 

Our side is told to think certain ways as well - how many of your liberal friends think Trump is committing treason?  It's a ridiculous accusation but many on the left believe it.  

 

On my facebook, most of the Trump supporters I know post stuff about the economy and guns.  Lots and lots of stuff about guns.  I think I've only seen one really vile racist post and that was posted by some ******* I didn't know but my friend did.  

[Squirrel]

good to know the millions of us are painted with the same brush because of some bad eggs. Here i thought the goal was trying to stop doing that.

I guess its okay to be racist against white people and sexist against white males.

First of all, I said 'in general' because I know it's a generalization. It's not an individual indictment, but generally speaking, it's true.

 

Secondly, your response is part of the problem. I'm sorry, but it is. Your first response is to recoil, point a finger and claim unfair sexism and racism without even perhaps looking hard in the mirror and asking from where, perhaps, did my response start from.

 

I'll tell you where it started. I was 10 years old when my mom ran for a position in the state legislature. The response I, as a 10 year old, got from total strangers, white male strangers, educated me at too young an age. When I was in junior high, being groped by a boy in school and told it was nothing. Being told, in church, that I was 'less' for being female and that my role is to serve men. Open my mouth in high school to debate gay rights and told to shut up, and apparently it's acceptable for boys to do that to the girls but not vice versa. Paying more for my health insurance in my 20s because I might get pregnant, but not covering my prescription for birth control. Getting paid SIGNIFICANTLY less than my male colleagues. Being underestimated, dismissed and ignored at every turn, because, well, that's just how it is. And my experiences are nothing compared to most women.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Dude, I work for a VERY LARGE insurance company....Obamacare isn't causing the price increases. It just isn't.

 

I don't care what the exact causal relationship is or how it has filtered the way it is, but I have a really, really hard time thinking that we passed a massive federal overhaul of medical insurance and we've seen huge changes to premiums, deductibles, and a host of other things and that hurricanes are to blame.

 

Doesn't that, even a bit, strain credulity?  

 

Whether indirectly or not, it has caused issues.  I'm not even necessarily opposed to it, but the ripple effects have to be addressed.  However or for whatever reason they are happening.  Obamacare set off some major changes in the market and people are paying for it.  And the trend isn't reversing, it's escalating.

[stringer bell]

I somehow want to blame the media. In some respects I do. Does no one see that Donald Trump is not qualified to be the leader of the most powerful nation in the world?

 

However, the stories are there--Trump shafted or stiffed people, may have engaged in illegality, made unwanted sexual advances and still some think he is better than Hillary. Clinton has the most newspaper endorsements in modern history.

 

I guess people just read or watch what they want online.

[Mike Sixel]

 

There is certainly some resentment toward where they feel government dollars go - they think that the govt will rebuild inner cities (i.e. urban) but don't give the same care to rural Americans.  They also are told that we give lots of money/benefits to refugees or immigrants who can take their jobs.  Those aren't true - or are far more nuanced than that so for all intents and purposes they aren't true - but I don't think it's quite fair to label them as racists as we liberals typically imagine that word and ignore their concerns.  

 

Our side is told to think certain ways as well - how many of your liberal friends think Trump is committing treason?  It's a ridiculous accusation but many on the left believe it.  

 

On my facebook, most of the Trump supporters I know post stuff about the economy and guns.  Lots and lots of stuff about guns.  I think I've only seen one really vile racist post and that was posted by some ******* I didn't know but my friend did.  

 

interesting, my trump friends post almost exclusively about how bad and evil hillary is, and about email and bengazi and clinton foundation and wikleaks. Almost nothing about actual issues.

 

And, yes, I have heard from more than 1 racist...but I never actually said they were racists, I said they were classists, against minorities and immigrants (all of what, how many, and what a TINY part of spending) (ignoring that whites get more welfare) getting government aid, as if farm aid didn't exist....so, I guess that says "racist" w/o saying it, maybe.

 

I'm tired of intelligent, nuanced, discussions to make the world a better place being replaced by BS and glorification of belief in the face of facts. There must be an intelligent nation someplace I can go.

[Squirrel]

This isn't really who's voting for Trump, though.  This article was pretty good even if it was on a humor site.  We liberals aren't helping ourselves by painting Trump supporters as racist whites and therefore we can ignore their issues.  They are mostly poor and rural who have been abandoned (or feel abandoned) by our society.  Rural areas have not recovered from the economic downturn that Wall St caused but see that neither party is rushing to punish Wall St.  Why shouldn't they support a crazy outsider?

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

We've had various discussion on this pages ago, I think with the same article posted. I also read this today. Interested in reading the book mentioned.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/1/13420262/jd-vance-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-republican-democratic-hillbilly-elegy

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't care what the exact causal relationship is or how it has filtered the way it is, but I have a really, really hard time thinking that we passed a massive federal overhaul of medical insurance and we've seen huge changes to premiums, deductibles, and a host of other things and that hurricanes are to blame.

 

Doesn't that, even a bit, strain credulity?  

 

Whether indirectly or not, it has caused issues.  I'm not even necessarily opposed to it, but the ripple effects have to be addressed.  However or for whatever reason they are happening.  Obamacare set off some major changes in the market and people are paying for it.  And the trend isn't reversing, it's escalating.

 

We were seeing huge increases before....we saw the introduction of huge deductibles more than a decade before the ACA, that didn't work at all, despite what economists and others said. Because it is simple, healthcare is not dortitos, I can't just decide not to treat my illnesses when they are really bad. Healthcare is not subject to the same premises and outcomes as most things in a free market.

 

I'll give you this. Rather than eating the profit in ER rooms, the hospitals are now passing that cost to more insured......which is pretty much what I said, rising costs.

 

****my opinions, no one else's*****

[TheLeviathan]

 

We were seeing huge increases before....we saw the introduction of huge deductibles more than a decade before the ACA, that didn't work at all, despite what economists and others said. Because it is simple, healthcare is not dortitos, I can't just decide not to treat my illnesses when they are really bad. Healthcare is not subject to the same premises and outcomes as most things in a free market.

 

I'll give you this. Rather than eating the profit in ER rooms, the hospitals are now passing that cost to more insured......which is pretty much what I said, rising costs.

 

****my opinions, no one else's*****

 

I agree with you, but again, the shifts in coverage were directly tied to the implementation of the ACA.  The same year the federal marketplace came into existence, my work had to make radical shifts in insurance coverage.  It doesn't sound to me like that trend is isolated.  

 

How or why that is trickling, I don't know.  But I don't think it's coincidence.  I don't think the ACA designed this to happen, my guess is it's a reaction by the companies involved in the process, but something is amiss.  And it's killing a lot of people who own their own business or work in the middle class.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

There is certainly some resentment toward where they feel government dollars go - they think that the govt will rebuild inner cities (i.e. urban) but don't give the same care to rural Americans.  They also are told that we give lots of money/benefits to refugees or immigrants who can take their jobs.  Those aren't true - or are far more nuanced than that so for all intents and purposes they aren't true - but I don't think it's quite fair to label them as racists as we liberals typically imagine that word and ignore their concerns.  

 

Our side is told to think certain ways as well - how many of your liberal friends think Trump is committing treason?  It's a ridiculous accusation but many on the left believe it.  

 

On my facebook, most of the Trump supporters I know post stuff about the economy and guns.  Lots and lots of stuff about guns.  I think I've only seen one really vile racist post and that was posted by some ******* I didn't know but my friend did.  

 

Humility like this about one's own ideological group is sorely lacking.  Thank you.

 

It'd go a long way to bridging these gaps.

[Craig Arko]

 

There must be an intelligent nation someplace I can go.