Hicks cut

[nicksaviking]

I would think there'd be a strong argument that we actually brought Gibson and May up too soon, not too late.

 

I don't see how one could make that argument. They were going to struggle upon a call up, like most rookies. Why wouldn't you want them to get their struggles out when your team is non-competitive?

[gunnarthor]

It's probably worth reminding people not to get too upset about the opening day roster.  A lot of things are factored into it, including options and player contracts.  The big issue, I think, will be what happens if Nolasco, after 8 starts, is putting up an ERA north of 5 and has had only one quality start while taxing the bullpen.  If Milone is doing that, he's easy to replace but Nolasco has a big contract still.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I would think there'd be a strong argument that we actually brought Gibson and May up too soon, not too late.

A strong argument that it is possible to virtually eliminate any player's MLB adjustment period? Please share!

[stringer bell]

I am 100% behind the Hicks move.  He wasn't the default pick and he wasn't the incumbent and certainly didn't win the CF job.  The young man needs to master AAA. 

 

I am not in love with the soft tosses of Tommy Milone.  He's had success, though, and I expect he'll be adequate in his role.  If not, there are higher upside options. 

 

The trades of the center fielders are so far empty, but both May and Meyer have potential to make the moves positive.  Nothing can make the "Gomez tree" of trades a positive.  The Twins traded a future All-Star for a future All-Star and then traded him for next to nothing.  That one really hurts.

 

I hope the Twins are active early this year and that we forget the original 25 sooner than normal.  We still have the backup catcher and bullpen to finalize.

[KirbyHawk75]

I know it is not the most exciting roster.. However, I think by June the roster could look different.  Hopefully by then guts like Rosario, Pinto, May, Meyer, and possible Burdi could be up.... Maybe Hicks will have turned it around.  Hopefully by then possibly Buxton and Sano have stayed healthy and progressed enough that they are really close to call ups.  

 

 

[Jham]

 

A strong argument that it is possible to virtually eliminate any player's MLB adjustment period? Please share!

 

A strong contingent of scouts that actually watched Gibson pitch in the minor leagues said that he wasn't ready to pitch in the bigs.  I think the term TR used was "when we call him up, we want him up for good."  Gibson was close to abysmal his first year.  He worked on some things, he got better.  Posters said that May had nothing to prove in AAA.  He didn't look Major League ready to me.  I'm not sure struggling through 2-4 inning outings makes a pitcher better than pitching your full pitch count against line ups that allow you to work on weaknesses and not just having to rely on your strengths just to get through the line up one time.

It certainly seemed that when Gibson and May were called up, it was because of fan pressure and not sound evaluation.  The Twins have shown the willingness to fast track guys who can actually perform at the big league level.  

 

All I'm saying is that I think there is a strong argument that players develop better in a farm system with lots of individual coaching than trying to learn on the Major League level with pressure and expectation.  Certainly there are arguments the other way as well.  

[jokin]

 

A big high five to anyone if they can tell me if this is the oldest opening day 25-man roster in baseball history for a club coming off of four 90 loss seasons. Or even three 90 loss seasons. Or three 85 loss seasons.

 

You asked for it.... (not sure if this is the oldest ever opening day roster, but here goes...)

 

The St Louis Browns, the ultimate in Clown-Show MLB futility, had 7 straight 90+ loss seasons (and added 8th & 9th straight as the Orioles in 1954-55).  Similar to the Twins, going into their 5th straight season of futility, 1951, I would bet that the 1951 Browns squad had to be one of the oldest, if not The Oldest team coming off of four 90 loss seasons.

 

The squad that year suited up 14 players, aged 30 or older, at some time during that season.  In all, they had 22 players, 29 or older who played for them that year,  including 45 year old Satchel Paige.  Of course, 3'7"/65 # Eddie Gaedel was a spry 26 year old pinch hitter for them, so there's that.

[nicksaviking]

I would take a 121-year old Satchel Paige over Milone for the 5th spot.

 

Maybe Gaedel should also get dug up to 'mentor' Arcia and Vargas about how to take a pitch.

[TheLeviathan]

"Major league ready" doesn't mean instant all-star. Every player goes through a final adjustment and maturation and most struggle through it.

[jokin]

 

I would take a 121-year old Satchel Paige over Milone for the 5th spot.

Maybe Gaedel should also get dug up to 'mentor' Arcia and Vargas about how to take a pitch.

 

And Danny Santana, too.

[Thrylos]

 

I would take a 121-year old Satchel Paige over Milone for the 5th spot.

Maybe Gaedel should also get dug up to 'mentor' Arcia and Vargas about how to take a pitch.

 

I'd dig up Kirby before either of those

[Thrylos]

 

A strong contingent of scouts that actually watched Gibson pitch in the minor leagues said that he wasn't ready to pitch in the bigs.  I think the term TR used was "when we call him up, we want him up for good."  Gibson was close to abysmal his first year.  He worked on some things, he got better.  Posters said that May had nothing to prove in AAA.  He didn't look Major League ready to me.  I'm not sure struggling through 2-4 inning outings makes a pitcher better than pitching your full pitch count against line ups that allow you to work on weaknesses and not just having to rely on your strengths just to get through the line up one time.

It certainly seemed that when Gibson and May were called up, it was because of fan pressure and not sound evaluation.  The Twins have shown the willingness to fast track guys who can actually perform at the big league level.  

 

All I'm saying is that I think there is a strong argument that players develop better in a farm system with lots of individual coaching than trying to learn on the Major League level with pressure and expectation.  Certainly there are arguments the other way as well.  

 

 

I'd love to see references to a strong contingent of scouts saying that Gibson was not good enough to be called up in the Majors in 2013.   Here is evidence of the opposing view.  Remember, he was out for one season with TJ surgery.  So, yes, he was not ready until 2013.  His first pro season, 2010, he went from high A to AAA.  I cannot think of a scout inside or outside the Twins' organization who would say that was disappointed by Gibson.  2011 was hurt. 2012 was recovering for most of the season. 

 

Also, you have to take things in perspective.  We are not talking about a contenting team.  We are not even talking about an average team.  We are not even talking about a bad team.  We are talking about the worst (or the second worst) team in the majors.  Period.  99+96+96+92.

 

If a first round draft pick cannot be trusted to make the rotation of that team because of journeymen like Correia and Deduno and Diamond and PJ Walters and Hendricks and Hernandez and the like, something is very very wrong (and, of course it is, just look at their record.)  

 

About being horrible when he was called up:  He was better than Worley, Diamond (who made the opening day roster), Walters, Hendricks and Hernandez.  On a 96 loss team.  If you can afford to call up the last 3, you should be able to call up Gibson...

[Shane Wahl]

 

I am pretty surprised by the Hicks thing.

 

The Twins are committed to losing as much as they feasibly could in April. Then it makes more sense with everything else.

[jay]

The Twins are committed to losing as much as they feasibly could in April. Then it makes more sense with everything else.

Because Hicks wins them a bunch more games in April? Really?

[Jham]

 

I'd love to see references to a strong contingent of scouts saying that Gibson was not good enough to be called up in the Majors in 2013.   Here is evidence of the opposing view.  Remember, he was out for one season with TJ surgery.  So, yes, he was not ready until 2013.  His first pro season, 2010, he went from high A to AAA.  I cannot think of a scout inside or outside the Twins' organization who would say that was disappointed by Gibson.  2011 was hurt. 2012 was recovering for most of the season. 

 

Also, you have to take things in perspective.  We are not talking about a contenting team.  We are not even talking about an average team.  We are not even talking about a bad team.  We are talking about the worst (or the second worst) team in the majors.  Period.  99+96+96+92.

 

If a first round draft pick cannot be trusted to make the rotation of that team because of journeymen like Correia and Deduno and Diamond and PJ Walters and Hendricks and Hernandez and the like, something is very very wrong (and, of course it is, just look at their record.)  

 

About being horrible when he was called up:  He was better than Worley, Diamond (who made the opening day roster), Walters, Hendricks and Hernandez.  On a 96 loss team.  If you can afford to call up the last 3, you should be able to call up Gibson...

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/209752351.html

Sounds like Terry Ryan, who actually watched Gibson pitch and develop pretty much called his early struggles.
 

[Kwak]

 

I know it is not the most exciting roster.. However, I think by June the roster could look different.  Hopefully by then guts like Rosario, Pinto, May, Meyer, and possible Burdi could be up.... Maybe Hicks will have turned it around.  Hopefully by then possibly Buxton and Sano have stayed healthy and progressed enough that they are really close to call ups.  

If June's roster is significantly different from April's roster it means: a) another fraud has been perpetrated on the fans about "competitiveness"; another denial by the Front Office that the team is in total rebuild; and c) more time has been wasted on the development of the:" up-and-comers". How many years will the charade continue? 

 

Apparently b right paren yields a funky symbol.

[Thrylos]

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/209752351.html

Sounds like Terry Ryan, who actually watched Gibson pitch and develop pretty much called his early struggles.
 

 

Excuses.  He is the same who called Diamond his Ace that season.

[twinscowboysbulls]

As of right now the Span and Revere trades looks very sad.

Meh. May and Meyer are going to be good.

[curt1965]

Along with everyone else today, I am also disappointed with today's developments. Not so much by who is going and who is saying, but rather what these decisions mean. To me it means that Hicks was either not good enough or didn't care enough to take the CF job and run with it. Or that May and Meyer either weren't ready to start the season on the 25 man roster, or the front office and manager don't have any confidence in them.

And what does it mean that players that have been released by other organizations are now making up 50% of the Twins outfield? No doubt that the Twins have some promising players in the pipeline, but this year looks to be another 85-90 loss season. We fans have to just hang in there, I guess!

[jimmer]

 

Meh. May and Meyer are going to be good.

Maybe one day down the road you'll be proven right.  My guess is May is a back of the rotation starter, maybe as good as a #3, and Meyer is a reliever, maybe a quality closer one day.

 

If that's good then yeah.

 

In the meantime, neither one of these 25 year olds is in the majors.  Neither one was good enough to displace Tommy freakin Malone.

[big dog]

 

If June's roster is significantly different from April's roster it means: a) another fraud has been perpetrated on the fans about "competitiveness"; another denial by the Front Office that the team is in total rebuild; and c) more time has been wasted on the development of the:" up-and-comers". How many years will the charade continue? 

 

Apparently b right paren yields a funky symbol.

or it means that players who weren't ready in April improved enough to be called up in June.  But whatever.

[jimmer]

 

or it means that players who weren't ready in April improved enough to be called up in June.  But whatever.

you believe guys who spend only 2-3 months in the minors get significantly better to the point their readiness level tilts from not being able to compete at the major league level to being able compete at the major league level?  You don't think that maybe , if promoted then, their pause in reaching the minors had more to do with significant dates in the season than besides readiness.  Like a 7th year of control or past the point where Super Two becomes an issue?

[Danchat]

 

Maybe one day down the road you'll be proven right.  My guess is May is a back of the rotation starter, maybe as good as a #3, and Meyer is a reliever, maybe a quality closer one day.

 

If that's good then yeah.

 

In the meantime, neither one of these 25 year olds is in the majors.  Neither one was good enough to displace Tommy freakin Malone.

If Meyer is going to end up being a bullpen pitcher, then we traded Denard Span for a late inning pitcher who wouldn't debut for 2.5 years after the trade and then just throw for one inning every other game. That would be incredibly disappointing.

 

He can be a starter. Just give him some time to work on his command.

[jay]

you believe guys who spend only 2-3 months in the minors get significantly better to the point their readiness level tilts from not being able to compete at the major league level to being able compete at the major league level? You don't think that maybe , if promoted then, their pause in reaching the minors had more to do with significant dates in the season than besides readiness. Like a 7th year of control or past the point where Super Two becomes an issue?

I sure hope it had more to do with that. Certainly for May and Meyer. Not sure where Hicks is at in relation to service time and Super 2.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

He can be a starter. Just give him some time to work on his command.

Give him time?  Twins traded one of my favorite players in  the game for him going on three seasons ago, didn't replace him, and we still have zero to show for it.  There's patience and then there's patience.

[jokin]

 

Meh. May and Meyer are going to be good.

 

 

 

Winston Smith, on 28 Mar 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:
As of right now the Span and Revere trades looks very sad.

 

You do  realize, right, that you are talking in different tenses (present vs. future) in your response to Winston?  It's practically a different language.

[jokin]

 

 There's patience and then there's patience.,,,,,,,

 

 

..... And after that... then there's "Twins Fan" patience.

[big dog]

 

you believe guys who spend only 2-3 months in the minors get significantly better to the point their readiness level tilts from not being able to compete at the major league level to being able compete at the major league level?  You don't think that maybe , if promoted then, their pause in reaching the minors had more to do with significant dates in the season than besides readiness.  Like a 7th year of control or past the point where Super Two becomes an issue?

I don't think either of those points are relevant for May or for Hicks.  I think Meyer was a mess.  I think thinking too much can be a problem, especially for a young player in the bigs on Opening Day.  But I don't think I know everything.  Not everyone suffers from the same insecurity.

[Jham]

Developing prospects isn't a science.  Not every move is going to pay off, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.  If Meyer is never an ace, he was at least, at one time, a potential ace.  Aces are pretty rare, getting even a potential ace for a player like Span was a pretty decent deal.  

 

I suspect both Meyer and May will be up soon enough.  I want to see them play and play well, but don't blame Terry Ryan for the fact that Meyer still doesn't have a repeatable delivery and May choked in his big audition.  Meyer and May just have to pitch better. They were given their chances, even last year.  That's on them.

[gunnarthor]

 

Give him time?  Twins traded one of my favorite players in  the game for him going on three seasons ago, didn't replace him, and we still have zero to show for it.  There's patience and then there's patience.

It is what it is.  Both trades looked good at the time and neither May or Meyer are done by a long shot.  The Twins still have 12 years of combined control over them.  So, maybe Meyer ends up with Hoey's career and May is the next Liam Hendriks but maybe they are both a lot better.  I wanted Meyer to be the #5 guy and have said repeatedly that I think May ends up leading the team in strikeouts.  So I am bummed that both are starting in AAA but they'll get their chances.