The Johan Santana Trade is OVER!

[stringer bell]

The last remnant of the Johan Santana trade is no longer in the Twins' system. Deolis Guerra signed a minor league deal with the Pirates. What are the odds that Guerra will make his major league debut with the Tribe sometime in 2015?

[ashbury]

The last remnant of the Johan Santana trade is no longer in the Twins' system. Deolis Guerra signed a minor league deal with the Indians. What are the odds that Guerra will make his major league debut with the Tribe sometime in 2015?

Should have signed with the Pirates.  /obligatory

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Shoulda kept Gomez! (and David Ortiz)

[Linus]

For all the negative publicity about this trade, it was really a lose - lose for both teams.  The Mets gave up 4 decent prospects (only GoGo turned out) and handed Johan a king's ransom.  He was oft injured for them and pitched relatively poorly for most of the contract.

 

Had the Twins kept Gomez, they would have been the clear winner in the trade.

 

I will say, that even if they would have hung on to him for the last year, collected the comp picks and let him walk, they still would have come out ahead.  The Twins avoided the worst part of this deal which was to give Johan a contract for $130 million.

[davidc3915]

For all the negative publicity about this trade, it was really a lose - lose for both teams.  The Mets gave up 4 decent prospects (only GoGo turned out) and handed Johan a king's ransom.  He was oft injured for them and pitched relatively poorly for most of the contract.

 

Had the Twins kept Gomez, they would have been the clear winner in the trade.

 

I will say, that even if they would have hung on to him for the last year, collected the comp picks and let him walk, they still would have come out ahead.  The Twins avoided the worst part of this deal which was to give Johan a contract for $130 million.

This really puts the whole trade into perspective.  There was no way the Twins were going to be able to resign Santana, and oft when this is the case, teams know this and put together a deal that reflects that knowledge.

 

Sure it can be argued that keeping Gomez would have been great, but it took him a few years in Milwaukee to fully develop and his emotional outbursts hurt the team often.

 

I think the bigger mistake was dumping JJ Hardy......

[James]

The last remnant of the Johan Santana trade is no longer in the Twins' system. Deolis Guerra signed a minor league deal with the Indians. What are the odds that Guerra will make his major league debut with the Tribe sometime in 2015?

 

 

Should have signed with the Pirates.  /obligatory

He actually did sign with the Pirates... so... I guess it's not a joke anymore?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/minor-moves-butler-robinson-solano-marcum-lincoln.html

[Rosterman]

The Twins were a mess. They had lost Hunter. They would be losing Johan. They got rid of Garza for Delmon Young. They also wanted a centerfielder. My two favorite rumors were the dealings with the Yankees and the Red Sox. The Twins wanted Ellsbury so bad. His name was always in the forefront of the rumors, with Lowrie, Masterson and another player (Bowden) as a throw-in. And a promising starter to replace Johan. SU\upposedly the Red Sox dangled Lester and Crisp in the front of one trade, which would've been an interesting outcome. Crisp has since been traded at least twice, putting up solid overall numbers. Lester, who was not yet the ace of the staff, was a solid promising starter coming off of some personal health issues that may/may not decide his longterm future. We see that it hasn't, so far. And some other young starter was also said to be in the mix...Clay Bucholtz, perhaps.

 

The Twins wanted Phil Hughes from the Yankees, but that seemed to be a non-buding point from the already overpriced team that somehow wanted to hang onto at least one system prospect for a few years. The Yankees supposedly dangled Melky Cabrera, and the Twins wanted Ian Kennedy and a couple of other possible prospects. 

 

But in the end it seemed to be just some posturing between two rivals to keep the price high, and the Twins suddenly started to see suitors disappear, not even the Dodgers or Rangers remained in play as the price the Twins were asking was high and the price Johan was asking was equally high, and it seemed that Santana basically wanted out of Minnesota for some reason and wanted to go to a major market for, what, endorsement money, more fame, whatever?

 

We can argue that if he had stayed in Minnesota, he would still be the Big Fish in a small pond, possibly would still be healthy (shades of Koskie, if he had stayed, might still be out DH). He ahd a couple of decent seasons with the Mets and then stalled on what should've been a sure -fire Hall of Fame career due to his Cy Young wins and almost wins, and has now become someone that might still pitch, but who knows, and why did the Orioles pay $5 million (reportedly) for last year's look.

 

The Twins got Carlos Gomez. I think they rushed him. One solid season at AAA might've done wonders, let him bulk out a little, instead of being pushed into the limelight and asked to bunt and run and all that good stuff. He was traded for J.J. Hardy, who should still be a comfortable salary mainstay at Minnesota, but the Twins were as worried about cost as the Brewers were and we shipped him to Baltimore for a bit of James Hoey and dirt. 

 

The Twins got a tiny bit from lefty Kelvin Mulvey who they traded for a season-and-a-half of Jon Rauch, who was closer for a moment and 21 saves with one of the best bumper (scary) videos ever for a pitcher coming to the mound. The Twins got Phil Humber (they supposedly did want Mike Pelfrey) who was in his final option year and needed to stay and was simply horrible, as he has pretty much been except for one season with the White Sox and no one can explain "why" that was, can they? And Deolis Guerra who simply struggled. The Twins got him at 19. He leaves at 25. I truly am surprised they didn't find a spot for him in September to just see how hungry he would be and if the years of patience were truly worth it. And the Twins even wanted a more highly touted outfield prospect than Gomez from the Mets, who was deemed untouchable (shades of Hicks and Buxton) and has since been traded and is...where?

 

You could ALMOST say the Twins ended up with the better part of the deal than the Mets, due to Santana's injuries, but non of the players REALLY contributed to making the team greater in any way. Rauch ALMOST was a closer. Gomez was EXCITING on the basepaths and chasing down balls. Hardy HIT some homers. If...IF...the Twins still had Hardy at shortstop and Gomez in centerfield...wait, we can't do that, they were traded for each other...and "ifs" can be so boring, right.

 

The unanswered question is...what did that $100 million salary savings over 5-7 years do to benefit the Twins. How was that money more wisely spent. And would've most of a season with Johan pitching have been worth it (and the draft pick) and maybe, JUST MAYBE, motivated the guy to stay.

 

Re-read the above. It is the neverending issues that the Twins deal with. Free agents that become pricy, they own tight purse strings or the unreality of what it does cost to stay in this business, their evaluation of player talent, the Twins Way vs. molding a player around what they can do and maybe succeed even more at, the fear of spending too much money, the need to grab solid and dependable players who play the game but not much beyond that, playing poker but not being very good at bluffing because they always have the chance to stay in the game and win with a hand down the road when something happens to those that remain better than them.

[ashbury]

He actually did sign with the Pirates... so... I guess it's not a joke anymore?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/minor-moves-butler-robinson-solano-marcum-lincoln.html

TD's gunna hafta hirea fact checker.  I certainly didn't step up when I saw the post.

 

Guess Guerra saw the same tea leaves as the rest of us and chose accordingly.  Life imitates meme?

[diehardtwinsfan]

In hindsight, I think it would have been better to roll the dice on his final season and offer him arb.

[h2oface]

I often hear the phase  "no way the twins were going to be able to resign" someone......  pohlad's can always sign anyone they want.  they just don't want to.

[nicksaviking]

In hindsight, I think it would have been better to roll the dice on his final season and offer him arb.

 

You only say that because you wish the Twins would have used one of the extra picks on that Trout guy.

[nicksaviking]

The Santana trade is in the books, but the Knoblauch trade is still paying dividends!

 

Duensing (comp pick for losing Christian Guzman) and Lester Oliveros (Brian Buchanan begat Jason Bartlet who (partially) begat Delmon Young who begat Oliveros).

 

I swear I only throw Duensing's name in trade projections simply to keep this tree growing!

[jorgenswest]

The book closed after 2013 when team control (from the time of the trade) ended for Gomez and Guerra had become a minor league free agent resigned by the Twins.

 

One year of Santana (7.1 WAR) and a Type A compensation for 6 seasons of Gomez (17 WAR) and 1 good season from Humber followed by two bad seasons in which he gave most of the WAR back (net 1 WAR)

 

A good trade for the Twins. They needed to find one very good player from the four. They did.

 

As stated above, the failure was recognizing and developing the talent of Gomez and subsequently Hardy.

 

Note: WAR from baseball reference.

[USAFChief]

For all the negative publicity about this trade, it was really a lose - lose for both teams. The Mets gave up 4 decent prospects (only GoGo turned out) and handed Johan a king's ransom. He was oft injured for them and pitched relatively poorly for most of the contract.

 

Had the Twins kept Gomez, they would have been the clear winner in the trade.

 

I will say, that even if they would have hung on to him for the last year, collected the comp picks and let him walk, they still would have come out ahead. The Twins avoided the worst part of this deal which was to give Johan a contract for $130 million.

There were those of us, at the time, who were shouting " given the return, they should have kept him, put another 230 innings on his arm, let him walk and collect the two picks."

 

As I recall, he demanded a trade to the east coast as well, limiting the suitors and thereby the return.

[Linus]

There were those of us, at the time, who were shouting " given the return, they should have kept him, put another 230 innings on his arm, let him walk and collect the two picks."

 

As I recall, he demanded a trade to the east coast as well, limiting the suitors and thereby the return.

In the final analysis, this was probably the best option.  There was lots of hype about the bounty we would receive for Johan and it just wasn't true.  However, the had we kept either Gomez or Hardy and avoided signing the mega contract with Johan, we would have been the clear benefactors in the trade.