Article: How Much Longer Will Alex Meyer (and Twins Fans) Wait?

[cmathewson]

Nobody thought they would DFA Nick Blackburn, who had two years and $10 million left on his contract. They didn't hesitate to do that.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Nobody thought they would DFA Nick Blackburn, who had two years and $10 million left on his contract. They didn't hesitate to do that.

 

And how long did they sit through his ineptitude before doing it? Pelfrey isn't getting the DFA 1 month into a 2 year contract. KC might at this stage, but even so, I suspect Ryan will be attempting to line up a trade partner, even if it's for a marginal prospect.

[Thrylos]

I'd like to see Alex Meyer up north ASAP, but I do not see this happening soon. As a matter of fact, I think that if the Twins need a starter from AAA, it will be Trevor May and not Meyer. Other than the 40-man situation (which can be alleviated since Eric Fryer and Brook Raley are on it,) I think that Meyer has few ways to go with the shoulder. He is taking a full 20 minutes or so to stretch it with resistance bands before each game. He is on a pretty severe pitch limit. And I think that the Twins have every reason to do that. I'd rather see him healthy, fully rehabbed and go deep into games in MN for many seasons, than have a cup of coffee this season.

 

Frankly, I just don't see it happening...

[Richie the Rally Goat]

The only way Meyer gets called up before September is if a rash of injuries occurs. Deduno and May are ahead of him on the rotation list.

[Thrylos]

The only way Meyer gets called up before September is if a rash of injuries occurs. Deduno and May are ahead of him on the rotation list.

 

And apparently Kris Johnson is ahead of them both

 

(no; has to do with the turn in Rochester rotation...)

[TheLeviathan]

Nobody thought they would DFA Nick Blackburn, who had two years and $10 million left on his contract. They didn't hesitate to do that.

 

You should go back and check how many times they wheeled that corpse out to the mound before they finally had some mercy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Nobody thought they would DFA Nick Blackburn, who had two years and $10 million left on his contract. They didn't hesitate to do that.

 

Actually, they didn't get around to that until there was just over one season and ~$6.5 mil left on Blackburn's deal (in August 2012).

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd like to see Alex Meyer up north ASAP, but I do not see this happening soon. As a matter of fact, I think that if the Twins need a starter from AAA, it will be Trevor May and not Meyer. Other than the 40-man situation (which can be alleviated since Eric Fryer and Brook Raley are on it,) I think that Meyer has few ways to go with the shoulder. He is taking a full 20 minutes or so to stretch it with resistance bands before each game. He is on a pretty severe pitch limit. And I think that the Twins have every reason to do that. I'd rather see him healthy, fully rehabbed and go deep into games in MN for many seasons, than have a cup of coffee this season.

 

Frankly, I just don't see it happening...

 

Thanks for the input. From the game logs, his in-game pitch limit seems to be exactly the same as the other Rochester starters so far.

 

As to the shoulder, I too would exercise caution, but if he's throwing 100 pitches every 5th day, I don't see how it's better for his shoulder to do that in AAA rather than MLB. And if he's on a season inning limit, letting him log the first bulk of that limit at AAA when he is otherwise healthy and effective also seems of dubious value (see Gibson, Kyle).

[cmathewson]

And apparently Kris Johnson is ahead of them both

 

(no; has to do with the turn in Rochester rotation...)

 

The main reason they called up Johnson instead of Meyer is he's on the 40-man and Meyer isn't. It's kind of a free move with the 25th man rule.

[cmathewson]

Actually, they didn't get around to that until there was just over one season and ~$6.5 mil left on Blackburn's deal (in August 2012).

 

It was a three-year deal. So he had two years left on it when they DFA'd him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It was a three-year deal. So he had two years left on it when they DFA'd him.

 

It was a four-year deal, and it began in 2010. So when they DFA'd him in August 2012, it was near the completion of the third season, with just a little over one season remaining.

 

There was a fifth-year club option for 2014, if that is what you are thinking of:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/twins-sign-nick-blackburn-to-extension.html

[jokin]

Thanks for the input. From the game logs, his in-game pitch limit seems to be exactly the same as the other Rochester starters so far.

 

As to the shoulder, I too would exercise caution, but if he's throwing 100 pitches every 5th day, I don't see how it's better for his shoulder to do that in AAA rather than MLB. And if he's on a season inning limit, letting him log the first bulk of that limit at AAA when he is otherwise healthy and effective also seems of dubious value (see Gibson, Kyle).

 

This paragraph really sums up the situation quite well. The Twins 2013 process of going through weird gyrations and machinations with the starting rotation- like giving 5th and 6th chances to non-entities like PJ Walters and Pedro Hernandez- lays bare the concept of "prospect blocking" and how much of it is actually performance-related and what percentage is related to prospect "readiness" (apparently not so much) and to non-performance issues (evidently quite a bit).

[jokin]

The main reason they called up Johnson instead of Meyer is he's on the 40-man and Meyer isn't. It's kind of a free move with the 25th man rule.

 

...And that Meyer just pitched on Monday and is unavailable and that Johnson just had his turn rained out last evening....

[Brandon]

In terms of value, Corriea is still pitching around 6 innings per start. He's throwing some good games and some crap. He's an ok option for a 5th starter. Meyer is better then Corriea but having Meyer as the 6th option is better than Johnson or Darnel Logan or May as there is a drop off in talent after Meyer. So the question is how much of a drop off is it from Corriea to Johnson. It looks like were about to get a sample of the answer on Thursday.

 

At this point in the season it is more important to have options to turn to because there are so many more games to play. As we play more games there will be fewer chances of injuries though that doesn't mean we won't have them. Just less likely to have a rash of them or there will be fewer games left if we do have multiple injuries in pitching add that to some of our pitchers developing and it makes sense to trade Corriea to a team looking for depth. Oakland had 2 starters undergo Tommy John surgery this year and still have 5 solid starters. They do not have much left to turn to if there is another injury. mlbtraderumors.com speculated the other day that Oakland is essentially looking for a 6th starter. Corriea is a perfect fit for them especially as we pay down some of his salary over the next month or 2.

I do want to note that I think our pitching is so much deeper than it has been the last several seasons.

[Mike Sixel]

no, at this point it is more important to have your best players up, giving you a better chance to win games. Doesn't matter how many options you have, if you are 15 games under .500. I don't understand how that is hard to understand. Can you help me understand why it is better to have worse players playing (increasing your odds of losing), but to have more of them?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

And apparently Kris Johnson is ahead of them both

 

(no; has to do with the turn in Rochester rotation...)

and Johnson is 29 years old in AAA, not exactly high upside, so if he works out, he's on Pelfrey's turn in the rotation so he's easy to slot quickly, if being moved around hurts him, you aren't wrecking a high value prospect.

[Otto von Ballpark]

At this point in the season it is more important to have options to turn to because there are so many more games to play. As we play more games there will be fewer chances of injuries though that doesn't mean we won't have them.

 

Wouldn't necessarily have to trade Correia, just shift him to the pen. Tonkin is being under-utilized there at the moment anyway. So you wouldn't lose any starting options (which I agree are good to have), just re-shuffle them to try to get the best ones in positions to contribute to the MLB club.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

no, at this point it is more important to have your best players up, giving you a better chance to win games. Doesn't matter how many options you have, if you are 15 games under .500. I don't understand how that is hard to understand. Can you help me understand why it is better to have worse players playing (increasing your odds of losing), but to have more of them?

It's true, but you also need depth. In the case, I think there's plenty of depth to risk losing an under-performer, but it's a slippery slope. Injuries can take care of this problem for you whether you're prepared or not.

[Mike Sixel]

No one is arguing depth is bad......I am arguing that having great players is more important than having depth. You can't live your life in fear of injury....and keep your best player in AAA just because some bad player might get hurt in the future. Do you then not bring him up, because he might get hurt, and there is no depth behind him?

[Craig Arko]

You can't live your life in fear of injury....and keep your best player in AAA just because some bad player might get hurt in the future. Do you then not bring him up, because he might get hurt, and there is no depth behind him?

 

"Yes. Until he stopped sliding head first (after I told him not to). I want him on the field and healthy.....this isn't about false hustle or other silly stuff, this is about keeping your best player on the field."

 

Sure.

[Mike Sixel]

Those are two very, very different things. One is an action that is more dangerous that sliding foot first, and there is ample evidence head first is slower. The other is about getting the best players up in the first place. I'd expect Trout to change his behavior quickly, and we move on. But I wouldn't keep Trout in AAA because some bad player on the MLB roster might get hurt, which is the argument being made here.

[tobi0040]

no, at this point it is more important to have your best players up, giving you a better chance to win games. Doesn't matter how many options you have, if you are 15 games under .500. I don't understand how that is hard to understand. Can you help me understand why it is better to have worse players playing (increasing your odds of losing), but to have more of them?

 

Amen. I have seen many point to the ERA's of Darnell, Pino, etc. and suggest a long line exists between Meyer and the Twins. I see Johnson was called up for a double header, that is fine as calling up Meyer for one start would force a roster move. When it is time for someone to be called up for good, it has to be Meyer. I am not going to look at numbers after four starts, I am going to look at the big picture.

 

Johnson - 28 years old. 940 IP, 4.23 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

Darnell - 25 years old. 576 IP, 3.98 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

May - 24 years old. 695 IP, 4.08 ERA, 10.7 K per 9.

 

Pino - 30 years old. 1,055 IP, 3.79 ERA, 8.1 K per 9.

 

Meyer - 24 years old. 234 IP. 2.88 ERA. 10.5 K per 9.

 

One of these does not look like the other.

 

Regarding an innings limit for Meyer, great point by CMAT. Why waste those in Rochester? Also, the longevity over the last 3-5 years of guys that throw upper 90's, a good amount of sliders, with a more violent delivery is not great. Maybe we only get 200, 400, or 600 innings of freakish numbers out of him. Get him up here.

 

We are 1.5 games out of first place. Meyer and Deduno over Pelfrey and KC could make a reasonable rotation with upside.

[kdrupp09]

Johnson - 28 years old. 940 IP, 4.23 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

Darnell - 25 years old. 576 IP, 3.98 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

May - 24 years old. 695 IP, 4.08 ERA, 10.7 K per 9.

 

Pino - 30 years old. 1,055 IP, 3.79 ERA, 8.1 K per 9.

 

Meyer - 24 years old. 234 IP. 2.88 ERA. 10.5 K per 9.

 

One of these does not look like the other.

 

I think it is important to note here also that although Meyer's future is brighter than any of these on this list, at least 1 (May) if not 2 (May, Darnell) likely have a future with the Twins as well. So another factor to consider for Meyer's promotion is does it make more sense from a roster standpoint or developmental standpoint to promote someone like May or Darnell.

[tobi0040]

Johnson - 28 years old. 940 IP, 4.23 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

Darnell - 25 years old. 576 IP, 3.98 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

May - 24 years old. 695 IP, 4.08 ERA, 10.7 K per 9.

 

Pino - 30 years old. 1,055 IP, 3.79 ERA, 8.1 K per 9.

 

Meyer - 24 years old. 234 IP. 2.88 ERA. 10.5 K per 9.

 

One of these does not look like the other.

 

I think it is important to note here also that although Meyer's future is brighter than any of these on this list, at least 1 (May) if not 2 (May, Darnell) likely have a future with the Twins as well. So another factor to consider for Meyer's promotion is does it make more sense from a roster standpoint or developmental standpoint to promote someone like May or Darnell.

 

Frankly, Meyer is the only one that we know for sure. May is probably the only other guy and that is if he is consistent. Meyer, Nolasco, and Hughes are locks. Gibson is probably going to be here and we have plenty of money to spend on another.

[kdrupp09]

Frankly, Meyer is the only one that we know for sure. May is probably the only other guy and that is if he is consistent. Meyer, Nolasco, and Hughes are locks. Gibson is probably going to be here and we have plenty of money to spend on another.

 

Is it really necessary for the Twins to go sign another and potentially block some of our young arms such as Kohl Stewart or Berrios?

[jokin]

Johnson - 28 years old. 940 IP, 4.23 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

Darnell - 25 years old. 576 IP, 3.98 ERA, 6.3 K per 9.

 

May - 24 years old. 695 IP, 4.08 ERA, 10.7 K per 9.

 

Pino - 30 years old. 1,055 IP, 3.79 ERA, 8.1 K per 9.

 

Meyer - 24 years old. 234 IP. 2.88 ERA. 10.5 K per 9.

 

One of these does not look like the other.

 

 

 

 

 

Johson is actually 29 (and turns 30 in October), he actually looks a lot more like Pino than the others. Clearly the best player is Meyer, and he has little left to prove at AAA. As many have already said, AA is really the proving ground for major league readiness, AAA is just the holdng pen for depth options. Let's go, already.

[DJL44]

Is it really necessary for the Twins to go sign another and potentially block some of our young arms such as Kohl Stewart or Berrios?

 

Those guys are in A-ball and have ETA of 2016 at the earliest. Also, you can never have enough pitching.

[Mike Sixel]

Those guys are in A-ball and have ETA of 2016 at the earliest. Also, you can never have enough pitching.

 

And Meyer and May? And, 2016 is only 2 seasons away......look, I wanted better pitchers this year, and last, but at some point, you gotta fix other spots. Now, if you want to sign Shields, and deal a legit starter for a SS, I'm all eyes and ear.

[tobi0040]

Is it really necessary for the Twins to go sign another and potentially block some of our young arms such as Kohl Stewart or Berrios?

 

Rule of thump, one of your five guys will get hurt or fall off the wagon. A few years ago we had so much pitching we traded Matt Garza. Blackburn and Slowey are not what we thought they were and Baker has been hurt.

[terencemann]

Is it really necessary for the Twins to go sign another and potentially block some of our young arms such as Kohl Stewart or Berrios?

 

Stewart is so young, I wouldn't worry about blocking him right now. What they need to worry about is finding better pitchers than their current rotation if they want to be a winning team in the next few years. My worry is not that, in the end, the current rotation isn't good enough, it's that this front office is not a good judge of how to spend money on pitching. If this rotation continues to suck all season and they go out and sign another Hughes, I guess I just give up.