TopGunn#22

I LOVED watching Bert spin his curveball. I remember Don Sutton having a good one as well. Yeah, it is a shame Bert had to wait as long as he did. The same for Tony-O and Jim Kaat. If they'd been Yankees or Red Sox. they'd have been in YEARS ago.

Good article. Points taken. I just disagree. You should never rule out trades. You should never rule out trying to make your team, and your roster, better and more complete. We need pitching. Badly. We need a SS. Badly. We have a talented player in Arraez who can be replaced by an up and comer like Miranda. If a team like the A's valued a player like Miranda MORE than Arraez, I'd consider keeping Arraez and trading Miranda. But when Baseball Trade Values puts Arraez at a value of 33.3 and Miranda at 4.5 it's kind of a no-brainer who I'm going to trade if I expect to bring back someone like Montas. I still think the Twins should inquire about Adelberto Mondesi from the Royals. K.C. has Nicky Lopez and Bobby Witt Jr. They could very well be willing to part with Mondesi. So, yeah, I'm never going to close the door on a trade if it is a trade that could help my team. But if the Twins brain trust REALLY thinks they can run multiple pitchers out for 3 innings at a time to pitch the hundreds of innings they need to cover the 2022 season, well, then we're doomed, and it might be better to find other things to occupy your time instead of watching or attending Twins games.

I agree with Doc Gast. I'm not happy about trading Arraez but Miranda can do everything he can and Arraez is one of our most valuable trade chips to acquire good, veteran, starting pitching. To me, (maybe not to the current Twins FO) it's painfully obvious that Arraez needs to be packaged to acquire that SP'ing as well as open a spot for Miranda. Honestly, you can't have a guy put up numbers like THAT in AAA, finish in last place in a typically weak division, and NOT have a place for Miranda on the big league roster with a clearly defined role and spot in the lineup.

I agree Whitey. If there is something to credit this FO with it's that we "seem" to have a plethora of pitching prospects. It's not rocket science however, to realize that not all of them will make it. SOME of them need to be packaged with young hitting talent like Arraez, Larnach, Rooker, Sabato etc...to acquire a couple of talented "Major League" caliber pitchers. Whether it's Montas and Bassitt, Lopez and Sanchez, Mahle or Gray, or Lauer, the Twins are going to need some "established" major league pitchers to pair with "some" of their "youngen's." I don't see us signing Rodon. He'll be a Dodger or Yankee or a Red Sox pitcher because THEY can afford to absorb the mistake if it doesn't work out. So the only way we can build back our starting rotation is to acquire a COUPLE of proven SP's via trade and hope for the best from Bundy and maybe Pineda and then see how they "youngen's" fare in 2022 and 2023.

I have always liked the idea of going BIG and acquiring Montas AND Bassitt. Even if it means giving up 2-3 of our young pitchers. In Montas and Bassitt, you have two PROVEN major league pitchers. Not just proven...but GOOD. We have 12-14 young pitchers who all have varying levels of possible talent/success. We can't expect ALL of them to develop and prosper. Packaging Arraez and Larnach with 2-3 pitching prospects to get both Montas and Bassitt would be tremendous. Montas would head the staff for the next two years and hopefully beyond. Depending on how Bassitt pitches in 2022 would give the Twins plenty of reasons (data) to either sign him to an extension or not. A SP staff in 2023 that would have Montas, Maeda, Bassitt, Balazovic, Ryan and Ober would have talent and depth. By that time the Twins would be in the situation to determine what their everyday lineup should be going forward. How are Lewis & Martin impacting the lineup ? Have Kepler and Sano figured it out yet ? Is Donaldson O.K. for that last year ? Is Buxton staying healthy ? Is Polanco still hitting ? Whose at SS ? How has Miranda panned out ? And on and on. But getting a couple of GOOD SP's in Montas and Bassitt sets it all up for 2022 and beyond.

Excellent article Nick, sure to bring lots of opinions. I see your reasoning and I don't think you are actually advocating for this philosophy (maybe you are) but the reasoning and the way the Twins have worked in the past is consistent with this. However, I'm going to explain why I think this is a flawed plan. Our biggest "issue" with Twins front offices in the past was that they NEVER took a risk and made a big move to put the ballclub over the top to actually have those Twins teams of 2004-2009 DO something. They were GOOD teams, with 2 MVP's (Mauer & Morneau) and a Stud CY Young winner heading the staff in Santana. But they always needed just a little more "juice" and the FO never supplied it. The 2009 signing of Hernandez is very comparable to a Happ, Shoemaker, Bundy type of signing. The difference is that Liriano, who had a spectacular debut in 2006 (2.16 ERA) had been battling injuries and ineffectiveness before he reestablished himself in the 2009 rotation. In retrospect, a BETTER signing than a bargain basement Hernandez with Liriano eventually making it back could have made a big difference. The foundation of the early-mid 2000's Twins was better, with Mauer & Morneau along with Hunter, Cuddyer and others. But this iteration of the Twins in 2022, while having a decent lineup (albeit with a couple major holes at SS and LF) is woefully short on "proven" major league pitching. The list of solid pitching prospects is long. You list a dozen of them and Chase Petty isn't even one of them. The current FO has done a nice job of assembling power arms. But for this team to contend in 2022 and beyond, they need some guys who can pitch NOW and in the future. We've seen the list of available pitchers who could have an immediate and future positive impact: Montas, Bassitt, Manaea, Castillo, Gray, Mahle, Lopez, Sixto Sanchez, and there are even a couple of Brewers pitchers that could be added to this list. The 12 young guns the Twins have that are close to the big leagues need to get some chances in 2022. But some of those arms need to be leveraged to acquire actual big league SP's (in addition to an Arraez or other big league assets). The Twins simply cannot go into 2022 with Bundy, Pineda and the "YOUTS." (that was a "My Cousin Vinny" reference, not to be confused with "Y-Outs" ). I want to see SOME of those young guns debut in 2022. But I also want to see some precise "evaluating" of what we have in the minors and some determinations regarding who is untouchable and who could/should be packaged for some proven, quality arms in a trade.

My FIRST favorite player in any sport. I will always have special feelings for a player who captivated my attention and who occupied my thoughts constantly as a young boy. So happy he and Jim Kaat finally made the HOF. I'll be in Cooperstown on July 24th to celebrate.

Good point Major League. I'm far too traditional in my thinking, but this could very well be the way it's going. Teams don't want to pay a SP half of what Max Scherzer makes while getting 1/3 of the production. One constant in baseball is that there are always only a few "Max Scherzer's" around at any given time. The Twins got Johann Santana going in the BP. The Dodgers have bounced Urias back and forth (probably not anymore though) and have done the same with Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin etc... I think fast-tracking guys like Canterino, Strotman and even Duran to the majors in a BP role like that is a GOOD idea. After 2-years of seasoning with the big club if the results are good and the team and pitcher agree, maybe they look to build his innings up and transition him to a SP role. The fact is, even though the NEED for SP'ing is acute for the Twins right now not ALL of their highly regarded prospects will pan out as SP's. It's also why I'd move a couple of these minor league pitchers if I needed to seal a deal that would return a Montas or Sixto Sanchez or Pablo Lopez. We really have an overabundance of these SP prospects. We need to give a little to get a Montas or Lopez in return.

We all would like to see the Twins be competitive in 2022. They were back to back division winners in 2019 and the Covid-shortened 2020 season. They have some talent and that talent isn't in their sunset years. Cruz is gone and he was a BIG impact on the lineup. Donaldson is still a pretty productive offensive player. Buxton is signed and if healthy, should provide MVP type impact. We have a "Black Hole" at SS. And the pitching staff, as listed, is potentially the worst in Twins history. Yes, there is "potential." But youth and inexperience, not to mention the overly cautious babying of innings pitched and pitches thrown for ALL pitchers nowadays, not just "young" ones has the Twins organization standing at the edge of a big cliff. This is NOT what I expected, and was led to believe to be expected for a Falvey&Levine led Twins team. Tony&Rodney listed off all the potentially GOOD pitchers in the Twins system. That WAS what I expected from a Falvey&Levine regime. But this FO dithered away on the FA front. Guys like Eduardo Rodriguez and Jon Gray at #1 & #2 would have been tremendous additions to the pitching staff and rather than "blocking" any of the young guns, would have given them time to develop and provided a backstop for injuries. And we could have "won" the bidding for both. Now, the FO is forced to make a trade or two just to fill out the rotation. As much as I'd like to see Rodon added and a Montas, or Bassitt or even a Pablo Lopez or Sixto Sanchez consider this: The Dodgers, Yankees and Angels have done literally nothing to add to their pitching staffs and ALL have needs and piles of cash and prospects if they choose to go after someone. Plus, if one of them gambles on Rodon and he should NOT work out, they have the ability to simply "absorb" that mistake. Our beloved Twins do not. We could still make a move for Danny Duffey and Pineda and I wouldn't hate that. But we can't just assume Pineda will come back (just like the Dodgers can't just assume Kershaw will come back, especially with the Rangers willing to spend big) and Duffey and Bundy, while being a little better than Happ & Shoemaker is just SO Twins. The twins are squarely behind the 8-ball at this point. No matter if Buxton has an MVP season and others have career years in 2022, a pitching staff as currently listed above will lose 90-100 games. It would be great to have a healthy Maeda from opening day and Berrios to head the staff. But somehow, the plan of our FO went sideways in 2021 and our guys just haven't been able to come up with a plan to upgrade and restore our pitching rotation. We were all alarmed when on the eve of this off season beginning, the FO stated they "were still working out the details of what their plan would be going forward." And then guys like Ed-Rod and Gray, Ray and Stroman were gobbled up and all I could envision was our FO in a roundtable meeting, planning away, and one of them monitoring activity says "well guys, we were "in" on Ray, but he just signed. Wait a minute...Stroman just signed too, and so did Gray!!! Gosh, things are moving quickly! How much money did Jim say we could spend?"

A trade with the Cardinals could look something like this: Twins get: DeJong (SS) 4.50 Alex Reyes (RHP) 0.0 4.50 Total Value. Cards get: Strotman (RHP) 3.9 Valimont (RHP) 1.1 5.00 Total Value.

I like adding an arm or two just because you're going to run through SO many arms, you've got to have a plethora of options. I would build from the back end first. Rogers can close. But I scratch my head as to why Rocco was using Colome and Robles instead of Rogers more last year. Were the Twins trying to depress Rogers stats to make his arb. number lower ?? That's no way to manage. I would LOVE Rich Rodriguez as a closer but I would also love to see the Twins add an arm like Alex Reyes from the Cardinals. His value is LOW and the Cards have had other arms move past him. He still has tremendous "stuff." I would like to see a trade with the Cards that brings us SS Paul DeJong and Alex Reyes. Not sure what the Cardinals would be looking for but it would not cost much to pry those two away from them. Sosa seems to have beaten DeJong out for the SS position.

Frankly, I'm interested in ALL of those Marlins pitchers. Last I had checked these were the values for the following Marlins pitchers on Baseball Trade Values: Sixto Sanchez 27.5 Max Meyer 22.2 Pablo Lopez 57.1 Jesus Luzardo 10.0 Cabrea 15.0 Hernandez 5.2. They are probably not trading Trevor Rogers, Cabrera or Hernandez. Lopez would be EXPENSIVE. Probably Kepler, Arraez AND a little something extra. One question is, would the Marlins still be interested in Jeffers despite having already acquired Stallings ?? (I like sticking with Garver and getting a Jason Castro type until Rortbedt is ready). If they were, I'd go for a package of Sixto Sanchez 27.5 and Luzardo 10.0. (37.5 total). Assets the Twins could consider moving would include: Arraez 33.3 Larnach 18.9 Kepler 23.6 Jeffers 19.2 Rooker 1.7 Sabato 3.0. The Twins could also consider a negative asset like Donaldson (minus 19.2) since the Marlins would be looking for offense (although I'm inclined to KEEP Donaldson) with the possibility of the DH coming to the N.L. The Marlins have a surplus of young pitchers and plenty of holes to fill. The Twins have a surplus at certain positions and a need for SP's. We still should be heavily considering a trade with Miami.

He's one of my All-Time favorite Twins. He was our leadoff hitter. When I played, I was the leadoff hitter. I always had a special affinity for guys who hit leadoff...Tovar, Brock, Wills, Lopes, later, Molitor, Ricky Henderson. He was just a very fun player to watch and root for. For those of us who grew up in the 60's and early 70's Pepe was a gem. Put. Him. In.

My wife and I DVR Jeopardy every day and like to play at supper time...just a way to keep the brain working and functioning. My wife was her class Valedictorian and graduated college Sum Cum Laude. I was a "B" student (I married "UP" so as to insure smart children). I always complain "where's the Baseball category"?!?!? This should be a fun episode when we get to it. Amy is indeed a buzz saw!

That Manager was Billy Martin, who gave the Twins baserunner's like Tovar and Carew the Green Light to work their magic.

We're talking about an entire level of cheating never attainted before. We're talking about Brady Anderson hitting 50 ! FIFTY !! HR's for the Orioles one year. He didn't hit 50 HR's the rest of his career. Nope.

Tony-O. That's why I'll finally see the Baseball Hall of Fame when my wife and I travel to Cooperstown this coming July. Many Twins have been favorites since: Tovar, Bostock, Puckett (and even though Tony-O was my FIRST favorite player, in anything, Killebrew and Carew were treasured Twins as well). I liked Gagne and then there were the pitchers: Dave Boswell, Blyleven, Jim Kaat, Jim Perry and later, Johann Santana and Joe Nathan. I also love their 1960's pinstripe uniforms with the blue numbers and "Twins" script. (with no player name on the back) Wish they'd bring them back.

Kepler is the guy best suited to fill in if need be. I'm done with Cave. I would LOVE for Lewis to be the long term solution at SS. However, he's shown that he's somewhat competent at SS, 2B, 3B, and OF. A Chris Taylor Swiss Army Knife type has proven to be EXTREMELY valuable to the Dodgers. The Twins have a couple of guys with that potential in Lewis and Austin Martin. Guys like Rodriguez and Urbina have potential, but are "several" years away. Celestino needs a little more time at St. Paul but would be the next best "immediate" option behind Kepler.

I think Larnach will eventually figure things out. To what degree as a hitter remains to be seen. His upside is Jesse Winker. His downside is our current version of Max Kepler without the defense. Speaking of Kepler, the Twins are certainly assessing what his top and bottom as a hitter will be. One thing that is clear about Max: The shift is his kryptonite. Will MLB come out with a rule requiring 3B/SS's and 1B/2B's to remain on "their side" of the infield as the pitch is being delivered and also restricting how DEEP an INF'er can play ?? These types of things are being discussed as a way to "revive" offense but will they come to pass ? There's more to Kepler's struggles than the "shift" but restricting it would instantly help him. With Larnach, the sample size is too small. But I remember how clutch he was in the College World Series for Oregon State and see him as THAT kind of hitter. With Kiriloff AND Larnach the Twins always had a certain degree of redundancy. Now that Buxton is in the fold the the long term and with Martin, Lewis, Celestino, Wallner and Rodriguez in the pipeline, Larnach is the better trade chip than Kepler. The Twins, have a LOT of young pitchers coming up in their system but with few expected to have much of an impact in 2022. I think Arraez and Larnach are the best trade chips to bring in SP's for both short and long term pitching flexibility. I would have considered Jeffers as well, primarily with Miami, but that ship has sailed. Maybe Jeffers to Milwaukee. But the Twins are going to have to be VERY active in the trade market to patch some of the gaping holes in their roster and to loosen up some of the log jams at certain positions (2B, Corner OF, 1B/DH types).

The Twins have lots of "potential" SS's but nobody who profiles as a clear cut SS (other than Palacios). I like Story as an option to spend some of the money that should be burning a hole in the FO's pocket, and I also like Rodon for that same purpose. However, I think the Twins should be considering the trade market heavily for SS and SP's. With Miranda set to replace Arraez in his role (and Gordon as well) Arraez is a great trade chip to accomplish filling some of the holes the Twins have. it's NOT that I WANT to trade Arraez. It's that he's a good ballplayer at a position or "role" that we have a high degree of redundancy who could bring the Twins back "quality" in areas where they need not only quality but "quantity" as well. The Segura idea is also interesting.

I think Rosterman hit the nail on the head: Last year, coming off being the two time Division Champs, we stumbled out of the gate when Colome and Rogers (primarily Colome) couldn't hold a lead and we blew save after save after save. It wrecked the entire season and put us in a hole we couldn't claw out of. Now, as we look at 2022 "expectations" are entirely different. Want a closer ? Sign one of the best ever in Kenley Jansen. The problem with that is he will most probably resign with the Dodgers (just like Chris Taylor). But I think Rogers is best suited to an occasional closer and more of a high leverage guy. I wanted us to take a run at Graveman or Knebel. But both are gone now. We could use ONE more arm and I'd like it to be a guy who could close. But the guy who COULD be "That Guy" could already be on the roster. Alcala intrigues me. I'd just like one more guy to give Alcala one more season to "decant."

I agree that Rodon is a good fit under the current circumstances and he should certainly be heavily considered. I would offer 2-years and $40 million, possibly 3-years $51 million. But I would also be ready to make a trade for another SP. Montas would be at the top of my list. Bassitt close behind. And Pineda would be an excellent guy to have in that #3 or #4 spot. Ryan and Ober will barely top 115 IP. Rodon will probably only pitch 150 innings. More bodies are needed to piece together a rotation without completely stressing the BP day in and day out. Construct a staff thru a FA signing and trades: Rodon, Montas, Pineda, Bundy, Ryan & Ober. Have Dobnak available to fill in. Then see who is performing and earning a chance at some Big League starts in-season. Balazovic, Winder, Duran, Sands Canterino, etc... It's a LONG season. With a LOT of innings. They need more than many of us think here on TD. While I would LOVE a SS, there are other options thru a trade than Story. PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. Not just for 2022 but for 2023 and 2024. Pitchers get hurt. They come up with a sore or "tender" arm. The Twins have some nice possibilities in the minors. They are just terribly THIN at the Big League level. Go get some PITCHERS !!

I'd be hesitant to trade him, but it always depends on the offer and salary considerations. It's always difficult to trade a negative asset because you always have to take back someone else's negative trade asset. The universal DH will change this scenario but here are a couple teams that I do NOT see Donaldson going to unless there IS a universal DH. Padres: They already have Machado at 3B. JD could be their DH with some 3B/1B flexibility. Yankees: They already have Gio Urshela and DJ LeMahieau. They need a SS. And DH doesn't work for the Yanks either--they have Stanton. Dodgers: They have Justin Turner (or at least they WILL once they resign him). And Turner would also get a LOT of DH AB's as well. Edwin Rios is waiting in the wings. The Mets could be a fit, but they have JD Davis and Jeff McNeil so if the Mets took him, DH, 3B and 1B is his fit just like the Padres. I think a negative asset like Donaldson is worth more to keep than to deal. And we aren't really under any kind of NEED to deal him for salary relief since we haven't spent any significant amount of money yet this off season. Unless the FO goes out and signs Rodon or Story I think there is no need to trade Donaldson. Even if we DID sign Rodon or Story, I think we need to keep JD because theoretically, the FO would be indicating that they believe we should be competitive in 2022. It's a conundrum !!

Castellanos appeals to me but he'll be way too expensive. Solid RH bat that would look great hitting 3rd or 4th in our lineup. How about taking a flyer at a guy like Nick Senzel ? He's got a LOT of talent but just hasn't gotten over the hump with the Reds. Another Red that is interesting to me is Jesse Winker. He has turned out to be EXACTLY what I hoped Larnach would be. Winker would make Larnach expendable. Maybe make a trade with Cincy for Sonny Gray & Winker ?

Cheaters are cheaters to me. Yes, there may be varying degrees, but I'm pretty "traditional" in how I view it. I don't want any of them (Ortiz included) to ever get into the HOF. That said, I'm somewhat resigned to the idea that guys like me will eventually be in the minority and most, if not all of them will eventually get in. Remember, Lance Armstrong never had an actual positive test. If the masking agents you're using are superior, you can avoid that direct implication. The most successful criminals always find a way to stay ahead of the Law. Armstrong was eventually undone by teammate testimony against him.