Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Twins News & Analysis

    Why Would the Twins Pay Anyone but Carlos Correa?


    Ted Schwerzler

    The Minnesota Twins enter the offseason prior to 2023 with a massive question mark at shortstop. Carlos Correa is going to opt out of his three-year deal, as was the expectation from the moment he signed it. Why would the club pay big for anyone but him?

    Image courtesy of Jeffrey Becker-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    Last offseason, as spring training was already underway, Derek Falvey and Thad Levine found themselves with an opportunity to land superstar Carlos Correa. With the New York Yankees willing to take on Josh Donaldson’s albatross of a contract, the Twins had a hole and money to spend. No longer was this club going to start Isiah Kiner-Falefa at shortstop, and Correa remained on the market.

    Overlord, err agent Scott Boras, was angling for his client to land the highest average annual value for a Major League infielder. Guaranteeing Correa $100,000 more than Los Angeles Angels third basemen Anthony Rendon, Minnesota accomplished that. The contract was a three-year pact for $105.3 million, but each of the additional years were simply player options. Correa gave himself an opportunity to get paid should he not perform, but his goal has always remained the same, a long-term, big-dollar deal.

    Prior to the 2021 season, former Cleveland Guardians shortstop Francisco Lindor inked a 10-year, $341 million extension with the New York Mets. Yes, Steve Cohen is a filthy rich owner, but there’s little argument that the shortstop wasn’t worth it. Correa checks in at roughly the same age, and while his health has been a bit more questionable, he’s been the same or better on the field. Looking for his payday this winter, that’s probably the number he’ll target to get above.

    If you need another comparable when considering Correa, the Texas Rangers also entered the land of crazy spending when they inked former Los Angeles Dodgers shortstop Corey Seager to a ten-year, $325 million deal this winter. That was consummate alongside Marcus Semien’s seven-year, $175 million pact they agree to following a third-place finish in the American League MVP voting.

    What it boils down to, is that Carlos Correa is going to get paid.

    Where does this leave the Twins? Probably in no man’s land. I’ve been told from sources that Minnesota will make an offer somewhere in the upper-$200 millions. Whatever that means remains up for discussion, but it’s a far cry from where both Seager and Semien ended up last season. It’s also well below what Lindor got from the Mets.

    This offseason, both Trea Turner and Dansby Swanson will be available on the open market alongside Correa. I’m not sure you can make an argument that the latter is better than the Twins shortstop, and the former has his warts too. Regardless, Minnesota would seem silly to pay another top shortstop a similar amount of money when one they already know is available.

    If Falvey and Levine want to create long-term continuity at one of the most impactful positions on the diamond, why would they not stick with the guy they already know? Correa’s 4.4 fWAR was the third highest of his career, and that was achieved despite acclimating to a new club and missing time following a hit by pitch.

    Of course, Correa has said all of the right things on his own. He loves Minnesota, and his wife does as well. He’s suggested he would be open to staying here, but that decision gets substantially more clouded should the returning employer come up with something like $70 million short of other suitors.

    At the end of the day it’s as simple as this; how difficult do the Twins want to make the decision? If the offer isn’t competitive, they only have themselves to blame. Either you’re entirely betting on Royce Lewis, Austin Martin, Brooks Lee, and your own youth, or you want to lock up a needed position for the next decade and do what’s necessary to make that happen.

    Follow Twins Daily For Minnesota Twins News & Analysis

    Recent Twins Articles

    Recent Twins Videos

    Twins Top Prospects

    Marek Houston

    Cedar Rapids Kernels - A+, SS
    The 22-year-old went 2-for-5 on Friday night, his fourth straight multi-hit game. Heading into the week, he was hitting .246/.328/.404 (.732). Four games later, he is hitting .303/.361/.447 (.808).

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    2 hours ago, beckmt said:

    If nothing else Cleveland has taught us pitching wins.  I would rather pay the pitchers starting this year and have the bridge with the good young players to held balance the teams budget. 

    If all goes good, 24 will have Ryan, Ober, Winder, SWR, Varland, Prielipp, Festa, Balazovic, Mooney, Henriquez as starting pitching options, which is exactly what Cleveland has done. There really is no reason to go out and pay big money for a starting pitcher this year, which Gray, Mahle and Maeda on the team.

    The Twins have holes at C, SS, and at least one outfield position. They have question marks at 2B (will Polanco bounce back), 1B/DH (with Miranda continue to improve and another outfield position (Who is Laranch?)

    IMO the money needs to be spent on offense/defense and another stud in the bullpen. Because if 5 of the above 10 pitchers don't step up, it really isn't going to matter.

    A couple of questions:

    1. How many of the 10 year deals for 28-30 year old players look good after year 7 or so? There must be data on that, right?

    2. Having said that, how much is $35MM/year really worth in years 8-10 anyway? With inflation, tv revenue growth, etc., that $35MM may only really be $15-$20MM equivalent.

    3. If we win one WS in that time frame, do the Pohlads really care? The FO?

    4. Sure we have some solid SS talent in the organization (Lee, Lewis, Martin, and Miller), but isn’t, as the adage says, a bird in the hand better than two in the bush?

    5. Signing CC is not incongruent with many, if not all, of those prospects playing huge roles on the Twins. In ‘24 would we not be thrilled with the four infield spots and DH covered interchangeably by Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda and Arraez?  And with Martin and Gordon in the super utility roles, specifically backing up Buxton in CF with a combo of Kiriloff, Larnach, Wallner or a new RH bat in the corner OF positions?

    6. With Urshela, Kepler, Sano and Polanco gone, and with all of the essentially league minimum young talent among the position players, isn’t this the time to spend? Even more so if we believe in our young SP talent?

    7. Isn’t signing CC the message you want to send to your fan base in a tough economic environment?

    Conclusion: Aggressively pursuing CC makes sense. Even if the last few years are a disaster, the deterioration of the true dollar cost over time coupled with matching the high CC salary with the low salaries of our young core over the near to mid-term makes the risk worthwhile. But let’s not be disappointed if we don’t land him - there are still many alternative, compelling strategies for pursuing a title we can pursue. 

     

    2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

    I'd say Mauer was a mega-contract. And, at the time, Kirby was. This team has done that, just rarely. It's time. We have the flexibility, we should get it done.

    The productivity per dollar spent on the Mauer contract does not promote success.  It is very difficult for Mid market team to build a dominant team with that high a percentage of payroll invested in one player.  They kind of had to do it with the hometown hero but the investment and subsequent production from Mauer is not an example of success which contradicts mid market GMs avoiding these contracts.

    2 hours ago, mac098 said:

    So the Mets giving Lindor that large contract is worthless? Or the Braves locking Acuna up for a team friendly contract hasn't paid off? What about Ozzie Albies? His team friendly contract hasn't paid off? The Braves took home the only hardware that matters last season. There are a lot of players who have signed mega-contracts that are now showing the fruits of their labor. Harper? The Phils took down the defending WS champs and are onto the NLCS. Kershaw back in the day. Machado. Yes, we have seen it backfire on teams like the Angels who have Trout and Rendon. But there is more to it than that. But what it ultimately comes down is this: If an organization is willing to spend the money on a play to sign the mega-contract, it show that they want to win. NOT that they just want to fill the seats in the stadium. It tells the fans, "Hey, we hear you. We want you to be proud to call yourself a fan of our team. So we decided to open the checkbook and sign (Insert superstar's name) because we want to bring some post-season hardware to our proud city." 

    Honestly, it does come down how the fans support the team and how the owners/FO are willing to spend to be successful. Now we don't have be the Padres and gut our entire pipeline of young talent to make trades for superstars, but we can trade off some talent that may be held back because we already have a superstar in that position. 

    If you look back at my post, I specifically noted small and mid market teams.  Pretty sure NY is not a mid market.  The Braves are also a very large market and a team friendly deal to Acuna to a prearb player has no relevance in comparing the type of contract being sought by Correa.

    3 hours ago, Trov said:

    I agree they should not go after a different SS, and if they plan to spend big on anyone it should be CC.  However, I would not want any contract longer than 5 years, and I doubt that gets it done for him.  I think minimum he will be seeking 8 years, and most likely will get that, but I think he is seeking 10 years.  I am worried after 4 or 5 years he will drop off a bit, I could be wrong, but history shows most SS stop playing there in early 30's. His offense is above average for SS, but not for 3b, and if he drops off on that side of ball too, then he will be just a huge overpaid guy. 

    Correa is pretty young. I don't have trouble locking him up until age 35. Almost every free agent is "overpaid" at the end, but they're usually underpaid at the beginning of the contract. If it helps you can pretend he made the money from his last season under contract in 2023 but it was deferred until 2030.

    1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    The anger and vitriol directed at Joe Mauer over the last few years of his contract should not be forgotten.  Any contract of this length is going to look bad at the end.  I honestly can't think of a contract like this that did not have 2+ years of "albatross" at the end.  This has to be considered when offering this deal.  Unlike Mauer, Correa is not a hometown guy.  He will be destroyed locally if he bats .240 with avg defense over the end of his contract.

    So your argument is Twins fans are too stupid so they shouldn't ever pursue top talent.

    I don't think I have it in me to place my hopes in the Twins again becoming a Major League contender.  They don't have the front office for it.  They've proved it year after year after year... They will not do what it takes to give their team a fighting chance against the East and the West.  Picking up cast-offs from other teams has proven to be folly, and the training ground in their minor league system is unremarkable.

    Correa and Buxton are team leaders - on the field and in the clubhouse.  Losing Correa will be costly all the way around.  

    For the remainder of the 2023 post-season:  "Anybody but the NYY."

     

    29 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    The productivity per dollar spent on the Mauer contract does not promote success.  It is very difficult for Mid market team to build a dominant team with that high a percentage of payroll invested in one player.  They kind of had to do it with the hometown hero but the investment and subsequent production from Mauer is not an example of success which contradicts mid market GMs avoiding these contracts.

    The Twins problem from 2011 to 2018 wasn't Mauer's contract, it was their complete lack to develop any cheap alternatives from the minor leagues that had any lasting results. They were always supplementing their team with more expensive (relatively speaking) Suzuki, Hunter, Hughes, Santana, Willingham, Nolaxco, Correia, Thome, etc...

    2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    So many people calling out for the Twins to sign Correa to a long-term contract... I agree that if you are going to sign a player to an 8 year deal this is as good a choice as any.

    But...

    The anger and vitriol directed at Joe Mauer over the last few years of his contract should not be forgotten.  Any contract of this length is going to look bad at the end.  I honestly can't think of a contract like this that did not have 2+ years of "albatross" at the end.  This has to be considered when offering this deal.  Unlike Mauer, Correa is not a hometown guy.  He will be destroyed locally if he bats .240 with avg defense over the end of his contract.

    The FO has to consider this as well.  Considering the roller coaster that is Twins SP, you have to wonder if this is where they are willing to plant their flag, especially with Lewis in the wings.

    If I were the FO, I would offer him 8y/$280 with a player opt out after 4 years.

    My prediction:  He signs elsewhere for more than that.  The Twins sign a placeholder.

    I think you're spot on with what will probably happen in terms of an offer. My guess is that he turns it down, signs for 8-10 years at 340m, and that the placeholder is Elvis Andrus on a 1 yr/6-8m deal. 

    No!  I am completely for moving on.  SS remorse is ahead for a lot of teams overpaying for players who will be moved to 2B or 3B.  Does Houston miss him?  Pena is cheaper, younger, and doing well.  We have three potential young replacements - save the money and get a really good pitcher. 

    5 hours ago, Peter said:

    Need to get correa back on twins-if ge lives it here why did he leave. Who can we get better? Lewis/lee aren’t ready yet, twins need to get they act together! 

    If the F.O. believes we have the pitching needed in the minors...then we need to sign Correa.  Lewis/Lee....3rd and 2nd base.  We could have a awesome fielding/hitting infield with Correa, Arraez, Miranda, Lewis, and Lee.

    Would this be a contending position player lineup in ‘24 (and the next few years as well) from both a competitive and realistic budget perspective?

    Interchangeable Infield and DH as Needed (Total: $47.1)

    Correa SS ($35). 
    Lewis 3B ($0.7). 
    Lee 2B ($0.7). 
    Arraez 1B ($5.0). 
    Miranda DH ($0.7)

    Interchangeable Outfield and DH as Needed (Total: $17.1)

    Buxton CF ($15). 
    Larnach LF ($0.7). 
    Kiriloff RF ($0.7). 
    Wallner RF/LF ($0.7).

    Backup CF/Super Utility and DH as Needed (Total: $1.4)

    Gordon CF/Other ($0.7). 
    Martin CF/Other ($0.7)

    Catcher (Total: $1.4)

    Jeffers ($0.7). 
    Backup - TBD ($0.7)

    13 Position Players (Total: $67.0)

    This lineup has speed, power, BA, OBP, fielding, throwing, flexibility, depth, RH and LH bats, vets and youth at a very reasonable price.  And it wouldn’t need to change much for several years. Lots of cash ($75 give or take) available for pitching as well.

    Conclusion: sign Correa if we can.

     

     

     

     

     


     

     

    1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

    The Twins problem from 2011 to 2018 wasn't Mauer's contract, it was their complete lack to develop any cheap alternatives from the minor leagues that had any lasting results. They were always supplementing their team with more expensive (relatively speaking) Suzuki, Hunter, Hughes, Santana, Willingham, Nolaxco, Correia, Thome, etc...

    I agree it was not the problem.  However, that type of production is also not a solution.  He produced 7 Fwar the last 5 years of his contract.  This organization must invest much better than that if we are to be successful.  

    59 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

    No!  I am completely for moving on.  SS remorse is ahead for a lot of teams overpaying for players who will be moved to 2B or 3B.  Does Houston miss him?  Pena is cheaper, younger, and doing well.  We have three potential young replacements - save the money and get a really good pitcher. 

    Pena isn't the reason they don't miss Correa. Bregman, Altuve, Tucker, and Alvarez are the reason they don't miss him. Oh wait, that's just the reason they don't miss him on the position player side. Their entire pitching staff can be added to that list. Pointing to a team with far more talent and saying "see, you don't need Correa to be good" isn't a good comparison to the current Twins situation. The Astros have developed their own hitting and pitching stars so they didn't need to sign Correa to the deal he wants. The Twins have failed to develop any stars outside of Buxton for half a season at a time, and maybe Duran as a bullpen star. 

    With the young talent the Twins have arriving now they should sign Correa AND a really good pitcher. Correa and Rodon as the only 2 offseason signings for about 60 million a year total would be just fine with me. But we need to stop pointing to teams like the Astros who succeed after letting a star go because they have other stars to cover for them and saying that shows you don't need to sign stars. The Nats let Harper go, do they miss him? The Red Sox thought they wouldn't miss Mookie, how's that turned out? The Twins seem to have a nice core of solid MLB players arriving now. Very few, if any, of them look like stars. So, unfortunately, actually having to spend market rates for a star is the only option they have right now. And if Lewis does become a star, great, now they'd be at 2.5 with Correa and Buxton as well as Lewis so they're still not at the level of star power Houston is running out there currently.

    54 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

    Would this be a contending position player lineup in ‘24 (and the next few years as well) from both a competitive and realistic budget perspective?

    Nobody can know if this team would be competitive, how many questions marks are there?

    Lee, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach, AK, Jeffers, Wallner and Martin.

    Three of those seem like they have a pretty good chance at being regulars (Larnach, Lewis and Miranda) and probably Jeffers, but as of now Lee, AK, Wallner and Martin are complete unknowns. But as of now that should go right along with the unknowns in the pitching staff for 24.

    The question will be can 23 be used as a season to figure these things out? I would say no, so I wouldn't expect Wallner, Lee, Martin, AK and Lewis to be in the teams Plan A. Doesn't mean that can ascend to those positions during the year with great minor seasons. If any of them are in Plan A and this goes south 23 could turn in 21 with a sell off of Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Urshela and Polanco (if they are still here), I also assume they will be giving the "young" pitchers every chance to succeed.

    4 hours ago, Launch Angle said:

    You missed the point of this comment, the Twins aren't in the same market as the Met's, Phillies, Dodger's or Angels. The Braves are much closer in terms of payroll but still higher. And I wouldn't consider Acuna's or Ablies' contracts as mega contracts. They were both considered way below market value, they each gave a huge hometown discount for long term financial security. 

    Yes, we aren't in the same category as the NY teams or LA teams, but we should be able to compete with the Phil's, Braves, and Guardians, all 3 of which made the playoffs. The Pohlad's are cheap and we know it. They want to be able to win a WS with a minimum payroll roster. 

    What defines mega Contract? Is it years, salary, or a combination? Because the Twins went pretty expensive with Joe Mauer's contract many years ago. So, ultimately it falls on the Twins to sign their players to friendly contracts as soon as they can. They need to stop beating around the bush and start insuring their future. 

    But as far as missing the point of this point. I did not. Every team has every capability of signing all players. Its just a matter of opening the checkbook and going from there. If it means a few years of success with increased prices at the stadium, I would be okay with that. Because players would actually want to come here at that point. Success breeds Success. 

    Twin fans already can hear the excuses. "We gave him a "Fair" offer but it just didn't work out! They have used that line so many times in the past and we all know their definition of "Fair Offer" never matches reality!! The best 2-way left side of the infield the Twins have had in years will be gone to save the money. We all know that!

    7 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    What the article does not cover is the examples of teams in similar markets that have been successful signing a mega contract with a similar player.  The reality is that it never happens.  In other words, none of the GMs of teams with similar revenue have believed signing such a player was in the best interest of the team.  Are they all wrong?

    We would be a better team next year with him but we be a better team in 24 and for several years thereafter with Lewis or Lee at SS and $35M invested in pitching?

    Great comment. We drafted six SS's last year and another in the 1st round the year before. Doesn't mean that the Twins plans change but nothing points to signing a SS for ten years at $300 million. And like you say, the GM's with similar internal salary caps are not doing this. Just look at Donaldson - his four-year contract felt like an anchor after two years and we had to give up players for the Yankees to take him.

    Agent Boras is going to determine where CC plays next year, and that means he'll go to the highest bidder. That, sadly, leaves the Twins out.

    Best for the Twins to focus on other needs: a solid shortstop and a top-level starter. If they can't acquire both via free agency, they'll need to put together a trade. What are the Twins willing to give up to get what they need?

    2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

    Pena isn't the reason they don't miss Correa. Bregman, Altuve, Tucker, and Alvarez are the reason they don't miss him. Oh wait, that's just the reason they don't miss him on the position player side. Their entire pitching staff can be added to that list. Pointing to a team with far more talent and saying "see, you don't need Correa to be good" isn't a good comparison to the current Twins situation. The Astros have developed their own hitting and pitching stars so they didn't need to sign Correa to the deal he wants. The Twins have failed to develop any stars outside of Buxton for half a season at a time, and maybe Duran as a bullpen star. 

    With the young talent the Twins have arriving now they should sign Correa AND a really good pitcher. Correa and Rodon as the only 2 offseason signings for about 60 million a year total would be just fine with me. But we need to stop pointing to teams like the Astros who succeed after letting a star go because they have other stars to cover for them and saying that shows you don't need to sign stars. The Nats let Harper go, do they miss him? The Red Sox thought they wouldn't miss Mookie, how's that turned out? The Twins seem to have a nice core of solid MLB players arriving now. Very few, if any, of them look like stars. So, unfortunately, actually having to spend market rates for a star is the only option they have right now. And if Lewis does become a star, great, now they'd be at 2.5 with Correa and Buxton as well as Lewis so they're still not at the level of star power Houston is running out there currently.

    I can only point to the Angels with the two best AL players - how often have they won.  Where would we have finished without Correa.  Sorry I do not see a long term extravagant contract to Correa doing us any good. 

    And I repeat - Houston let Pena play and get a 4.8 WAR as a rookie while we had Correa with 5.4 WAR.  For those who like HRs both hit 22.   Correa had one more AB.  Pena - $700,000, Correa $35,000,000.  Is .5 WAR worth .6 WAR?  

    I agree that Houston has a better all around team, but Correa is not taking us to the playoffs and that money can be spent better in other ways.  One position player does not make a team great.  

    I know this will upset many of you who want to see the Twins spend money, but I am not one who buys into this get Correa quickly - we cannot afford to lose him. For the majority of the season he was average - then he made his salary push for the end of the season and the results?  He looks better, the Twins team stunk. 

    41 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

    I can only point to the Angels with the two best AL players - how often have they won.  Where would we have finished without Correa.  Sorry I do not see a long term extravagant contract to Correa doing us any good. 

    And I repeat - Houston let Pena play and get a 4.8 WAR as a rookie while we had Correa with 5.4 WAR.  For those who like HRs both hit 22.   Correa had one more AB.  Pena - $700,000, Correa $35,000,000.  Is .5 WAR worth .6 WAR?  

    I agree that Houston has a better all around team, but Correa is not taking us to the playoffs and that money can be spent better in other ways.  One position player does not make a team great.  

    I know this will upset many of you who want to see the Twins spend money, but I am not one who buys into this get Correa quickly - we cannot afford to lose him. For the majority of the season he was average - then he made his salary push for the end of the season and the results?  He looks better, the Twins team stunk. 

    as they say: "Let's go to the video tape!"

    Carlos Correa OPS by month:

    • Mar/Apr .633
    • May .884
    • June 1.012
    • July .614
    • Aug .776
    • Sept/Oct 1.001

    Doesn't look like he waited for the end of the year to buff his stats, his best month was actually June. His 3rd best was May. He finished the year at a 140 OPS+ which is absolutely stellar, and the best on the club (sorry, Royce: 12 games doesn't qualify you). First half OPS: .803, Second half .866. (I'm also fairly convinced that if he had tailed off at the end of the season, a segment of the fanbase would have trashed him for not coming through late in the year when we "needed him" or something)

    Houston bet on a young player they had developed and it worked out for them. If Royce Lewis had finished the season healthy, I suspect the twins would be making the same bet...but he's not. He's having another knee surgery. I love the kid, and I root for him, but he's got another barrier up and Correa is as close to a sure thing as I've seen.

    I'd rather bet long term deals on position players than pitchers. and Correa is exactly the kind of guy I'd push my chips in for. Truly great player, plays a premium position, has skills that will age well, and appears to have every intangible you could ask for.

    1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

    I can only point to the Angels with the two best AL players - how often have they won.  Where would we have finished without Correa.  Sorry I do not see a long term extravagant contract to Correa doing us any good. 

    And I repeat - Houston let Pena play and get a 4.8 WAR as a rookie while we had Correa with 5.4 WAR.  For those who like HRs both hit 22.   Correa had one more AB.  Pena - $700,000, Correa $35,000,000.  Is .5 WAR worth .6 WAR?  

    I agree that Houston has a better all around team, but Correa is not taking us to the playoffs and that money can be spent better in other ways.  One position player does not make a team great.  

    I know this will upset many of you who want to see the Twins spend money, but I am not one who buys into this get Correa quickly - we cannot afford to lose him. For the majority of the season he was average - then he made his salary push for the end of the season and the results?  He looks better, the Twins team stunk. 

    The Angels are worse at building a pitching staff than the Twins. That's all anyone needs to know about why they can't win.

    Yes, Pena was good. Not claiming he wasn't. But their willingness to take a chance on the rookie being good was because they had a great team around him. Much of his WAR came from his defense, though. In my experience, you don't even find a majority of people who work in analytics who believe the defensive stats should be taken as gospel. Pena was almost exactly a league average hitter. His OPS+ was 101. Correa's was 140. Slight difference there, no?

    "Salary push for the end of the season" is a nonsense, not even remotely based in reality argument. You think he waited until September and then was like "dang, I guess it's time to start trying now so I can get my $350 mil?" That's complete and utter nonsense. No player does that. 

    I've never, not even once, suggested the Twins can't afford to lose him. But the facts of the situation is that you need stars to win. The Twins are not developing their own. But they have developed a bunch of guys who look to be solid major league regulars. Since they've built nearly an entire 26 man roster of major league regulars who are on well below market deals they can afford to sign Correa. And a pitcher. Why would any fan of the team not want them to spend money to improve the team? What do they gain by not signing Correa? He wasn't "average" for the majority of the season. In fact his OPS+ was above 130 for almost all of it. That's well above average. He did struggle in the clutch moments like the rest of the roster, I will grant that.

    But this isn't about "have to," it's about how else do you improve this team so they can actually win a playoff game? Signing a star who you can more than afford seems like a pretty reasonable way to improve the team. The point of having a steady stream of major league regulars developed by your own system on cheap deals is so that you can afford to sign the stars. They have a star. They have a bunch of regulars on cheap deals. If this isn't the time you want to sign a star there literally never will be a time. There aren't enough holes on the roster to need to go out and sign a bunch of mid-level guys. Sign a stud starting pitcher and a stud SS and let's play ball. They can afford it and have the players on the rest of the roster to be able to win some games. If you disagree you should be suggesting they trade everyone on the roster and start a full on rebuild. Trade Buxton, Mahle, Gray, Ryan, Miranda, Duran, all of them.

    2 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

    Great comment. We drafted six SS's last year and another in the 1st round the year before. Doesn't mean that the Twins plans change but nothing points to signing a SS for ten years at $300 million. And like you say, the GM's with similar internal salary caps are not doing this. Just look at Donaldson - his four-year contract felt like an anchor after two years and we had to give up players for the Yankees to take him.

    The position players are drafted at shouldn't be looked at all that hard. Beyond IF/OF/P there really isn't much to that. There are dozens of "SS" drafted every year that every team knows has no shot at staying at SS. And Miller hit .212 in low A this year. He's not stopping them from signing a long-term deal with a SS.

    The Donaldson deal is an interesting one. Everyone knows the last few years of these "mega deals" are more than likely going to be bad. The hope is that you get so much out of the first handful of years to make it worth it. The problem with Donaldson's deal is that he was paid pretty much what he was likely going to be worth the first couple years before the last couple years had him making well more than he'd be worth. There was no period in that contract that had him earning well above his pay to make the deal worth it. Signing Correa to a 7-10 year deal would be with the expectation that he's worth well more than he's paid over the first 6 or 7 years and you are able to produce a cheap, young player to replace him when he has to move to 3B and isn't worth the contract after that.

    Long-term deals aren't about getting your money's worth every year, it's about getting your money's worth over the life of the deal. And Urshela was the best player in that Donaldson deal so I don't know that I'd say the Twins had to give up players for the Yankees to take him. Rortvedt isn't a prospect, despite fans around here really wanting him to be. He's a left handed Drew Butera. IKF is a good fielding, no hit (84 OPS+ this year, 82 for his career) player that had a rookie replace him in the playoffs so he didn't even start game 5 today. The Twins didn't give up anything of value and got the best player in that deal.

    why not 5 yrs. 200 mil ? It makes him the highest paid per year at 40 mil. and is only for 5 yrs in case something goes wrong, i.e. injury or just not performing. It would laso not be an albatros contract that couldn't be moved at the deadline if wanted. I in no way want to offer a 10 yr deal, that makes no sense, we have youngsters who could replace him by then.

    I think Falvey and Levine will know early in the offseason if Correa will re-sign with the Twins or not. And if not, then move on and pursue the other 3 top FA SS. 

    LA Dodgers have been over the competitive tax threshold for 2 years in a row, hit the “Steve Cohen penalty” this year, and will likely take a step back in spending. The Yankees have to worry about paying Judge a gazillion dollars this offseason. The Cubs are crying poor and not competitive. Boston just paid Story $140 million. 

    All the talk in the first couple years of Falvine’s tenure was “financial flexibility”. Whelp, here we are. The books have never been cleaner. If they don’t spend money now for a clear need at SS, it’s never going to happen. 

    If money is going to be such a big impediment every year then Correa doesn't fit. If the budget is up to around $150 million for 2023, Correa fits. I would like to see the Twins have Correa at shortstop.

    My primary concern is that the Twins become more skilled on defense and more athletic overall. While Correa is a plodder, he does know how to run the bases and his presence would allow our Lewis, Martin, Lee group to grow into the game.

    There are players to trade or drop that would pare back the dollars by quite a bit. I don't expect Falvey to part with players he has added. In fact, i would be surprised. I am just a fan though and would not miss all of Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Paddack, Pagan, and Lopez. These players in addition to a couple others (Arraez, Jeffers, Larnach) could bring back something depending on whether there are any teams having an interest. I expect the team will return mostly intact and judging from many comments this is a preference from fans too.

    Correa seems like a reasonable bet for six decent and two declining seasons. So 9/290 might be the number.

    11 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    What the article does not cover is the examples of teams in similar markets that have been successful signing a mega contract with a similar player.  The reality is that it never happens.  In other words, none of the GMs of teams with similar revenue have believed signing such a player was in the best interest of the team.  Are they all wrong?

    We would be a better team next year with him but we be a better team in 24 and for several years thereafter with Lewis or Lee at SS and $35M invested in pitching?

    How similar are the Cardinals?

    7 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

    How similar are the Cardinals?

    The Cardinals average about $75M more in revenue as compared to the twins.  They have done a great job acquiring the right "big names" with the huge revenue of the biggest markets.  So, give them credit but they can cover a couple big contracts with the incremental revenue they have beyond the twins revenue.   In other words, if the Twins had another $75m in revenue I would be saying they should sign Correa.

    31 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    If money is going to be such a big impediment every year then Correa doesn't fit. If the budget is up to around $150 million for 2023, Correa fits. I would like to see the Twins have Correa at shortstop.

    My primary concern is that the Twins become more skilled on defense and more athletic overall. While Correa is a plodder, he does know how to run the bases and his presence would allow our Lewis, Martin, Lee group to grow into the game.

    There are players to trade or drop that would pare back the dollars by quite a bit. I don't expect Falvey to part with players he has added. In fact, i would be surprised. I am just a fan though and would not miss all of Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Paddack, Pagan, and Lopez. These players in addition to a couple others (Arraez, Jeffers, Larnach) could bring back something depending on whether there are any teams having an interest. I expect the team will return mostly intact and judging from many comments this is a preference from fans too.

    Correa seems like a reasonable bet for six decent and two declining seasons. So 9/290 might be the number.

    Absolutely  agree with the first part of this post very much. Not so much in agreement with the thought of trading away some of the younger players listed as I think they remain part of the future as well as being inexpensive.

    As to the OP, no, it makes no sense to go after any of the other top FA SS for many reasons. CC should be the guy if they are going to do it. I've never had a problem moving Lewis to another position. Always thought it was a silly arguement that a very talented player was "wasted" by moving them to a less demanding defensive position. Who cares if a guy could be a really good SS, but you have someone better or as good there, so you move the other player to 3B or 2B. So you have an elite player at a spot other than SS? And this arguement has been made in the past, and I just don't understand it. I mean, the Yankees were pretty good and won a whole bunch of games, even a couple of WS IIRC, keeping their HOF SS in his natural spot and placing Rodriguez at 3B. Oh, what a waste! Lol

    The truth is the Twins CAN afford to keep Correa at SS and thr books are clean enough to do so. The truth is the Twins have a lot of young talent reasonably priced or cheap now, and a couple just getting their feet wet. The truth is there are several veterans who CAN be off the books in 2024, but not saying all will be or should be. But there is financial flexibility now, as well as the near future.

    IF the Twins are going to make a move like this, it's the perfect time.

    I object to the idea the Twins don't have some potential star players on hand. A healthy Polanco is about as good as it gets, same with Buxton when reasonably healthy. Unfortunately, they have a LARGE group of POSSIBLE star players who have had setbacks in their development. But there are some damn fine looking players just ready to break out, if healthy.

    So I agree that IF the Twins are going to go all in, now is the time. I still have reservations that ONE GUY can make that much of a difference. He could, if the rest of the team around him is as good as the rest of the Twins roster could be if we can just get everyone on the field and playing to their potential.

    Is CC's potential $ better spent elsewhere? Maybe. I've been torn on this. Both sides of the debate are right, spend BIG, or save and spend AROUND both work if the plan of action goes according to plan. CC is affordable. Keeping him makes the most sense if the Twins push the 2023 payroll to $150M in order to make a couple other additions. (With $ coming off the books again next year).  It turns out bad if they don't augment, and everyone stays hurt, and the prospects just don't turn out as good as hoped for. (Not all of them).

    IMO, BOTH sides of this intelligent debate are right. Keep CC...a star talent which you need...and spend a little more SMARTLY, to augment with $ coming off the future books and keep developing your young talent. OR, trust in that young talent and spend the CC $ throught the roster to make the TEAM better as a WHOLE. 

    I'd like to see Correa remain a Twin and push the 2023 payroll, knowing your books are POTENTIALLY still relatively clean in 2024, IF you develop and trust your young talent. I understand full well his last couple of years will PROBABLY make him an expensive bench player, or a 2B with someone else taking over SS. But common sense for a mid market team has to be "how much can we expect to BURN financially his last few years?"

    My answer is 2yrs. And who knows how the market is going to work! My answer to a re-sign is 7 or 8 years for about $260-280 MAX. That's about $33M per. I'd even suggest front loading the first few years by a couple of $M, just to keep the last couple of year more financially flexible for the rest of the roster, even though, hypothetically, revenues and payroll will rise. To me. That's still a little steep. I'd rather see 7-8 at around $250M but not going to quibble. Considering the Twins ARE mid market, I'm not going to be upset if they "finish second" on a deal like this. 

    I WILL be upset if the FO just drags their feet for months on end waiting to see how things turn out and ignore other options. The WORST thing the FO can do is nothing while sitting around the campfire and just being overly patient. There's still a season to be played and the constructs of a potentially pretty good team for that season.




    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...