Find the Next Gerrit Cole? Twins Have Shown the Knack

Archer intrigues me. What would he cost prospect wise? Would say Edwar Colina get it done? Or is that too much? Another off year for Archer and he'll make 9mil. It sounds like the Pirates might be in for a fire sale. It'd be interesting to see if a deal for Archer and Josh Bell could be reached.

I would take a flier on Archer.  What do you think the price would be?

The Astros deserve zero credit for what Cole has achieved - #1 overall, he was a stud when they got him who was maturing into his prime. Now the acquisition part ....

Archer for Colina? Really? smh

Ben Cherington is smart enough that he's either going to try to fix Archer himself or, and this is a thing, he's going to realize if he has to sell that another team can probably fix him, and so he has to get an actual real and close prospect for him. I mean, he needs to pull a Glasnow or a Meadows just to keep the fans from storming the stadium with torches.

The Mets GM who wouldn't sell Syndergaard for anything less than the world took that stance because he knew Thor would be fixed by smart teams like the new Twins, and he'd look really bad. It must be a sort of hell to know you don't really deserve your job, and that because of that, it could end at any time.

Twins need to get one of the top five FA starters.  That involves risk.  To me resigning Pineda would seem to be a way of handling the bridge gap until a couple of the 6 - 10 starters in the minors make it (guessing we will be lucky to get 2 out of 10), I am hoping for 3. 

Trading for a down starter involves risk, Archer or Boyd are the most likely targets (maybe Robbie Ray), but most Front offices after a couple of the burnings the last few years are not likely to sell low. 

Maybe you wait till midseason and then see which clubs have not preformed to pick up the last piece, and the price might be lower if the pitcher in question is having a bad year.

Among the pitchers we haven't "fixed": Anibal Sanchez, Mike Pelfrey, Martin Perez, Kevin Corriea, Hector Santiago, Tommy Milone, Ricky Nolasco, and Lance Lynn. 

 

On the other hand, Odorizzi. 

The Twins did fix Lynn. They taught him that he needs to start spring training on time and that he is not worth all of the money he wants.  Most of the rest of your list was not fixed by anyone else, either.

"Yes, the Twins were the ones who fixed him."

Tongue in cheek about Lynn.

I can't think of any player the Twins have "fixed". Baldelli or someone did change the pitch to contact approach on the mound and to be more aggressive at the plate mental approach but actual improvement in technique was questionable. Buxton and Sano remain a work in progress and Twins have let players go who have flourished elsewhere. Not just for the Twins but for MLB in general, coaching seems to be a ceremonial position and is offered as a reward for ex major leaguers who don't want to leave the game. All you need to know is when someone like Tom Brunansky was hired as the hitting coach under Gardenhire.

Again, Gibson seems to be a pitcher who has raw talent but doesn't seem to have command or a clear idea on the mound. Twins seem to be happy to keep sending him out there and just accept the results.

Comparing Odorizzi to Cole is kind of a kick in the midsection to Cole.

Cole is one of the few people on earth that could be considered the best pitcher on the planet, and Odorizzi almost qualified for the ERA title (innings wise)

Now this isn't meant to discredit how good Odorizzi is, but lets not get carried away by comparing him to Cole.

The question is not can you take a pitcher with amazing talent and harness it, it should be can you find an amazing pitcher that may not be at his best but the other team is looking to get rid of for a slew of prospects. So far the Twins has shown no ability to do that, but I really, really hope that changes.

Lynn 2017:(StL) 11-8, 3.43
Lynn 2018:(MIN) 7-8, 5.10 
Lynn 2018: (NYY) 3-2, 4.14
Lynn 2019: (TEX) 16-11, 3.67

 

Yes, the Twins were the ones who fixed him. 

Is it possible that Lynn was still rebounding from the missed season?

FIP

2015 3.44

2016 Did not pitch

2017 4.82

2018 3.84  (4.72 with Twins)

2019 3.13

xFIP

2015 3.90

2016 -

2017 4.75

2018 3.98 (4.49 with Twins)

2019 3.85

And technically the Twins did fix him before the Yankee turnaround.

According to Alston, Lynn moved a little closer to the third-base side on the pitching rubber. He also made slight alterations in the way his right foot contacted the slab -- "so he can get into his glutes a little bit more" -- as well as the way his left foot moved toward home plate.
Stride length wasn't the issue, Alston and his team determined, so much as the way Lynn's hips worked. "What it allowed him to do was make sure he was connected properly from his top half to his bottom half," Alston said. "That allows the ball to stay on plane just a little bit longer."

That should be easy enough to track with Statcast™ data. Did Lynn really move on the rubber in the way that he and Alston said? The answer is yes, noticeably so. With the Twins, Lynn was releasing the ball an average of two feet to the right of the center of the rubber. With the Yankees, that increased to 2.6 feet, so an increase of nearly half a foot.

https://www.mlb.com/news/lance-lynn-changes-make-interesting-free-agent-c301119518

But both pitchers tapped new levels of performance, velo, and dominance with the new clubs. That is a noteworthy parallel. And one can argue what the Twins did was more impressive because they made an All-Star, $18M pitcher out of something much less. 

What am I missing that Odo has done with the Twins that declare a new level of performance?

His WAR from ESPN has him at 3.6 this year his next highest is 3.5 in Tampa. He highest yearly ERA was last year with the Twins and his lowest was in 2015 with Tampa.  While he has never been a huge innings per start guy two of lowest total innings are his two years with the Twins. So higher strike outs is what I see.

He best two years with Tampa is combined WAR is 6.5, his two years with the Twins is 5.2?

Basically everything I wrote about Odo is the opposite for Cole.

His hits down, ERA down, K's WAY up and WAR way up best two years in Pit 7.3, two years in Houston 12.2.

There is really no reason to be comparing these two or what the teams that got them did.

If you want to compare Cole to somebody maybe it is Texas, with what they did with Minor and Lynn? They both blew up there compared to their career prior.

I'm fine with picking up a fixer-up-er, if they sign a Wheeler & Pineda.  That gives us 4 really solid starters, a 4A pitcher for a 5 and the fixer-up-er for Pineda through suspension.  Decide on the 4A (Graterol) or fixer-up-er for 5 when he comes back.

Is it really as easy to get a guy to ditch sinker for 4 seamer and then throw the "slurve"?  It seems like I see this "fix" a lot.  It would seem like this fix is similar to having a guy add a change up or the sinker staple of past franchises.  I really haven't seen this franchise do much fixing with starters.  Hopefully Johnson is trying multiple methods based on the pitchers strengths.  It would also seem like having all your pitchers doing the same thing would be less effective also.

I honestly was pretty excited when the Twins traded for Ordorizzi. I thought he was good in Tampa. To be honest, I am surprised we were able to get him for as little as we did. 

That said, I don't think the Twins "fixed" him at all. He is pretty much the same pitcher he has been all his life.A #3-4 starter that doesn't last long in game. They did however get him to cut down on the HR given up. 

Odorizzi had a great year, but Cole is on a different level. Cole always had better stuff than Odo. The Twins have done a great job with Odo, but Gerrit Coles don't come around often. I don't know if I'd really compare anyone to him.