Article: A Snapshot of Twins Payroll

[johnnydakota]

2013 earnings of 215 million +25 million in new tv revenue+30 million in all star game revenue

thats if we dont have an increase in ticket sales which I expect will happen to the tune of 300,000 more sold.Even without additional ticket sales we will stand to earn 270 million x 50%

leaves us at 135 million payroll for 2014...instead we are spending 4 million more then we did in 2009 ,our last year at the Dome, we are currently 53 million under ownerships limit for payroll, and will once again compete for 5th place in the Central...why sugar coat it, if everyone of our players had average years and some of the kids broke out along with 2 or 3 career years we could posibly make it to the middle of the pack...the money is there , but it wont be spent to improve this team ,for proof 1 only has to look at the international market of the 3,908,600 dollars that we were allowed to spend , did we even spend 2.5 million of it?

It would be a big difference in my attitude if we bankrolled some of the teams profits for the future, but if it is spend it or lose it...I for one say spend it

[tobi0040]

Florimon had a .939 fielding % in the minors, worse than Santana's .947, and committed 26 errors as a 24-YO at Double-A in 2011. He's now considered one of the best defensive SS in the league.

 

I'm not fully fold on Santana as a stud defender, but I'm certainly not going to let his minor-league error total play into my perception much.

 

Touche. Certainly it is possible for him to turn it around defensively, Florimon improved his fielding percentage from .945 to .975 from 23 to 25. You stated the Twins view Santana as next in line and I wanted to point out he has some work to do. Sano can get awat with it for now because he can hit like crazy, is younger, does not play ss, and can move to dh or flop with Mauer.

[Highabove]

Unspent money goes away and never comes back. Its not socked away in some rainy day fund. The Twins have repeatedly stated that the estimated revenue for the upcoming season dictates payroll. It's just not about wins and being in contention. The Twins owe it to their Fans to put the best and most entertaining product on the field.

[Mike Sixel]

With all the unspent money since TR came back, they should have around fifty+ million they could give Tanaka in year one......and then what everyone else is bidding in the out years. Anyone think they are buying a player, when one is available? If not, why do you care if they "spend too much" on a player?

[Kwak]

I fear too much is being read into team payroll. 2011 season exposed that the franchise had been hollowed-out from the inside. The past two seasons simply confirmed that and also that bandaids, duct tape, and bailing wire would not suffice to solve the problems. What has been done to solve the root of the problems? No, Bill Smith himself wasn't what caused the collaspse. Nor was it caused by Mauer's contract. Either the system must change or a whole bunch of lottery tickets have to hit. Actually, hitting the lottery doesn't solve the problems--it only obscures the problems for awhile.

 

So, to me, signing some free-agent pitchers (who at best raise the rotation to average) isn't enough--it is only a start. We can all hope that the "prospects all pan out as stars", but that requires too much suspension of disbelief. Besides, better players can still be acquired and we can still keep our hope/dreams of prospects becoming future stars--while watching a better team.

[Thrylos]

 

Free Agent signings rarely work. Microwave teams don't go worst to first' date=' with Boston being the exception..[/quote']

 

Jack Morris, Chili Davis, Brian Harper, Carl Willis and Mike Pagliarulo beg to differ

[OldManWinter]

I do not see any problems with a team being fiscally smart and not pouring their money on the ground.. Teams spending too much don't do themselves favors either. Maybe Yankees and LA teams can absorb out of control spending. Others, not so much.

[troyhobbs]

So? What are you saying? Did I say that the Twins should build a team entirely from within?

 

That's certainly not my claim. Trade when you are in contention. And' date=' in the Twins' case, sign a free agent or two for sog $$ if your starting rotation is in complete shambles (like this offseason) or when you need one or two more position players to break out. For instance, signing Drew would be justifiable if the Twins finished just behind Detroit. But not now. No way.[/quote']

 

I'd like to see them sign Drew and another pitcher. When I buy a ticket to an MLB game I want to see something more than a bunch of AAAA players. The Pohlads have plenty of money so not sure why so many fans care about spending smart and building from within, just put the best product possible out there every year like you're trying to win instead of just trying to be profitable.

[brvama]

Good article Nick! I do have a problem though. I am starting to get fatigued with the same money arguments from both sides. So maybe we should move on.

 

From my observations, depending on your position, it is plainly obvious that the Twins have either done a credible job in improving this year or have dribbled down their leg pathetically like the last 3 years. A great deal of passion on both ends.

 

Some say the Twins have the money and haven't increased the payroll from the last 3 years, so spend it. While others see the Twins dishing out, uncommonly, large free agent paydays and are spending wisely.

 

Some see free agents as the one way out of this mess, and feel their performance will match or exceed their past. Others question whether the upgrade will be worth it and view the potential of the up-and-coming players will be worth the wait. While those favoring free agents, do not see much hope that the youth movement will provide enough improvement.

 

And then, throw in the occasional statement of fact about such-and-such or so-and-so that has no way of being absolute and is subject to the future. These discussions have hashed, rehashed, hashed and rehashed the same positions.

 

Passion is admired and there is not one on this site that is not a fan. However, I believe that it is time to recognize that there is no swaying of the other, before we are all drunk at the bar.

 

So, maybe, we should turn our attention to something like: who will be the first player injured in spring training. Something we can't prove until it happens also.

 

OMG, spring training will be here in a month. Halleluja!!!!

[cmathewson]

And "build from within" has never worked, in the history of Major League Baseball.

 

It hasnt even been tried. Find me an example of a team that has been built entirely from within, much less done so and won.

 

Teams have always supplemented their minor league talent on other ways.

 

There is room to both wait for the minor leagues to provide the Twins with some of the talent needed to win a World Series and go get some of that talent in other ways.

 

It used to be more common before free agency. Now, it can't be your exclusive strategy. But you can focus most of your efforts on building from within and supplement that with external players. I think that's the spirit of the poster's point.

[bird]

Why do you care about the twins money so much? Why do you care if they spend too much money on Drew, if it does not stop them from signing anyone next year? They lose thirteen million in payroll after this year, they are way under fifty percent, and no one on this roster is due a raise for years. You might argue giving up a second round pick makes no sense, though you would be wrong, but why do you care about the money at all?

 

Let's turn the tables: why do you think the Twins organization should not care about money at all? Or about second round draft choices? And why do you think their judgment about whether Drews is a good acquisition is inferior to your own judgment, which comes so easily in part because you have nothing on the line financially or otherwise?

[big dog]

So, maybe, we should turn our attention to something like: who will be the first player injured in spring training. Something we can't prove until it happens also.

 

 

Dibs on Mastroianni!!

[johnnydakota]

Dibs on Mastroianni!!

 

Does Samuel DeDuno count? if so I will pick him , as I believe he will start the season on the 60 day DL

[Dantes929]

And "build from within" has never worked, in the history of Major League Baseball.

 

It hasnt even been tried. Find me an example of a team that has been built entirely from within, much less done so and won.

 

Teams have always supplemented their minor league talent on other ways.

 

There is room to both wait for the minor leagues to provide the Twins with some of the talent needed to win a World Series and go get some of that talent in other ways.

How would you define how teams were built before free agency? Making trades with major and minor league assets still falls under my definition of building from within. We got Alex Meyer for Denard Span. That is still within my definition. If it has never been tried then where is the proof that it could not work? I promise you that if every team was stuck with only the players they developed themselves someone would still win every year and there would be some extremely good teams. Rays and Giants have been mostly built from within and the players they have let go have been just as good as the players they have acquired so whose to say it couldn't work.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Jack Morris, Chili Davis, Brian Harper, Carl Willis and Mike Pagliarulo beg to differ

 

Ask them about the nucleus of players that came up through the Twins system and had already tasted success in 1987: Kent Hrbek, Greg Gagne, Kirby Puckett, Gene Larkin, and Randy Bush would beg to differ. Also, Alan Anderson, and players who came up just in time for 1991--such as Scott Erickson and Chuck Knoblauch.

 

Is there a comparison between the 1990 Twins roster and the 2013 version? No comparison.

[Mike Sixel]

Ask them about the nucleus of players that came up through the Twins system and had already tasted success in 1987: Kent Hrbek' date=' Greg Gagne, Kirby Puckett, Gene Larkin, and Randy Bush would beg to differ. Also, Alan Anderson, and players who came up just in time for 1991--such as Scott Erickson and Chuck Knoblauch.

 

Is there a comparison between the 1990 Twins roster and the 2013 version? No comparison.[/quote']

 

There would be if TR would promote Sano and Buxton like McPhail promoted Hrbek and Puckett and others.....

[Mike Sixel]

Let's turn the tables: why do you think the Twins organization should not care about money at all? Or about second round draft choices? And why do you think their judgment about whether Drews is a good acquisition is inferior to your own judgment, which comes so easily in part because you have nothing on the line financially or otherwise?

 

The Twins should care, but that's not what people are posting.....they are saying they don't think it is worth the money. The Twins can do whatever the heck they want, but why does a fan care if they make huge money, or even huger money?

 

It wasn't "why do the Twins care", it was "why do YOU care" about if a contract is "worth it". Totally different questions.

[Squirrel]

There would be if TR would promote Sano and Buxton like McPhail promoted Hrbek and Puckett and others.....

Um ... but weren't Hrbek and Puckett already on the major league team BEFORE MacPhail became GM? Didn't Hrbek come up in ... what ... 81? 82? and Puckett in 84? MacPhail was with the Twins then, but he wasn't GM until 85.

 

Correct me if I have this wrong ... I don't have time to double check.

[Mike Sixel]

Ok, insert "Twins GM" there instead. Don't really care who the GM was, whoever it was promoted those guys all up well before they were ready, and gave them time to learn up here.

[PopRiveter]

Hrbek debuted at age 21, Puckett at age 24.

Sano and Buxton are each 20. BB just turned 20 last month and has played 173 games of professional baseball. Seems a bit premature to complain that Terry Ryan is promoting too slowly.

[Mike Sixel]

Huh, I was wrong on Puckett, thanks for the correction. For some reason, I thought he was up sooner than that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Baseball was a very different game in the early 80s. Outside of monster talent like Trout or Cabrera, guys simply don't make it to MLB before age 21-22 in today's game. Ryan isn't doing anything wrong with Sano and Buxton. He's taking them steadily through the system as they show the org they're ready to move.

 

Besides, what's the rush? Every month of "postponement" of seeing Sano/Buxton comes closer to getting an entire extra year of control over them into their mid to late 20s (aka. their peak seasons). Sano is going to see MLB as a 21 year old and Buxton might see MLB as a 20 year old. I think it's a bit odd to grouse about not seeing them in MLB as teenagers.

[Mike Sixel]

The rush is I don't want to watch crappy ball players anymore. The rush is they are both "in AA" and could be up here. I get it. I should just wait for the future. The rush is that WS team was built by getting guys up here, and playing int he majors for a couple of years before peaking. This staff seems to want them to be peak the day they come up. It doesn't usually work that way.

 

You know with certainty Sano will be up this coming year? I don't know that.

[beckmt]

Drew would not be the answer. He would help, but that decision should wait as much as two years to play out. Florimon could learn to hit well enough, Rosario could hit so well that Dozier is forced back to SS or traded, Santana could be the answer or Polanco, too many variables to invest 4 years in an over 30 player.

[Seth Stohs]

I don't know if Sano is going to get called up this year. I expect it'll happen for sure in September since he has to be added to the 40 man roster anyway. I suspect he'll go to AA and they'll go from there.

 

Buxton also likely starts in AA, and it's the same thing. let's see how it goes.

 

I suspect both will be up this year, but that's easy to say when Buxton hasn't had an AB and only a half-season at Hi-A. Sano, we don't know how he'll do this year. They're so young. If they're ready, they'll come up. If not, they won't. That's the way it should be.

 

Puckett flew through the system. 224 minor league games!! Incredible. He just was drafted late.

 

Puckett was up 2 years aand a month after he was drafted. Brian Dozier was up about 2 years and a couple of months of season after he was drafted.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The rush is I don't want to watch crappy ball players anymore. The rush is they are both "in AA" and could be up here. I get it. I should just wait for the future. The rush is that WS team was built by getting guys up here, and playing int he majors for a couple of years before peaking. This staff seems to want them to be peak the day they come up. It doesn't usually work that way.

 

I have a simply response to this:

 

Aaron Hicks. Sure, Buxton/Sano have higher ceilings than Hicks but Aaron was rushed to the majors prematurely and lost an entire season of development due to his awful play. Why are we in a rush to waste both development and service time on a player that probably isn't ready to face MLB pitching? Like I said earlier, Sano is 21 and Buxton is 20. It's not as if we're looking at a Jason Bartlett situation here.

 

You know with certainty Sano will be up this coming year? I don't know that.

 

Nothing is guaranteed but if he's healthy and posting a .900 OPS in AAA (as he's done at pretty much every level thus far), I don't see how the Twins keep him in the minors.

[thetank]

Baseball was a very different game in the early 80s. Outside of monster talent like Trout or Cabrera, guys simply don't make it to MLB before age 21-22 in today's game. Ryan isn't doing anything wrong with Sano and Buxton. He's taking them steadily through the system as they show the org they're ready to move.

 

Besides, what's the rush? Every month of "postponement" of seeing Sano/Buxton comes closer to getting an entire extra year of control over them into their mid to late 20s (aka. their peak seasons). Sano is going to see MLB as a 21 year old and Buxton might see MLB as a 20 year old. I think it's a bit odd to grouse about not seeing them in MLB as teenagers.

 

When they do come up it may take a while before they are quality starters.

[Mike Sixel]

btw, I'm not saying this particual desire of mine is rational......I really am tired of watching a 95 loss team with no real future players on it (or few). I'm ready to watch a 95 loss team with future superstars on it. I get that not everyone feels the same way.

[Brock Beauchamp]

When they do come up it may take a while before they are quality starters.

 

And they're more likely to be productive starters if they're ready to face MLB pitching when they arrive in Minnesota. Nothing good will come of seeing them flounder for a year in Minnesota and waste a year of precious service time.

 

Hell, they may flounder in Minnesota anyway... But if you give them time to sort out their issues in the minors, at least you're comfortable knowing that you did all you could to help them succeed in MLB.

[Brock Beauchamp]

btw, I'm not saying this particual desire of mine is rational......I really am tired of watching a 95 loss team with no real future players on it (or few). I'm ready to watch a 95 loss team with future superstars on it. I get that not everyone feels the same way.

 

I'm ready to see a better baseball team last week but not at the expense of losing a year of service time on a couple of potential superstars that aren't ready to face MLB pitching.

 

They'll be here in time. Sure, I wish that time was right now but that's not realistic.