I have a big complaint but really no complaints at the moment.

[Riverbrian]

I've gotten what I've asked for. 

I wanted more pre-arb players. Right now after the September call ups... There are 20 on the roster... so no complaint from me... maybe not this many but I don't have an exact number of pre-arb players to strive for but I knew that the Twins roster needed to resemble what Milwaukee, Cleveland and Detroit started the year with to free up money to spend on BETTER free agents than Ty France. I have finally got what I have been asking for and I've been asking for this for a long time. I will live with whatever happens for the rest of this year.     

The one big complaint... rather than it happen all it once with a massive sell off... I would have preferred this to be a yearly influx of talent driving the number up so we didn't end up in this position in the first place.     

I wanted more left handed hitters in the lineup instead of limiting the number of left handed hitters as they searched for vet right handed platoon type guys. There are currently 7 on the roster... which is more than Rocco can platoon. So no current complaint from me.

75% of pitching is right handed.

League wide in 2025 thus far. Left handed hitters have a combined .660 OPS against left handed pitchers... that is a statistical platoon advantage against 25% of pitching.

League wide in 2025 thus far. Left handed hitters have a combined .750 OPS against right handed pitchers... that is also a statistical platoon advantage against 75% of pitching.  

More left handers in the lineup is how you play the platoon because significantly more pitchers are right handed. Strip mining every young left handed hitter is not how you play the platoon advantage because it's playing the low end not the upper end. More left handed hitters is what I've been asking for. I've got it at the moment so no current complaint from me.   

The one big complaint. It might be too damn late for some of our players. They have spent the last 3 years providing no opportunity for any of our left handed hitting developing prospects and that develop time is gone as prospects have reached arbitration or about to reach arbitration. The decision makers in an attempt to go for it must have felt that the team was better off with Margot types taking those AB's away from them and I really think that was the wrong approach and I believe it why we are here right now with this sudden massive all at once correction. Every single young developing left handed hitter was strip mined for parts and kept away from left handed pitchers for the past 3 years as we kept the left handed hitters numbers down and constantly searched for lower dollar one year contracts to right handed hitting handcuffs. Not one left handed hitter was allowed to hit against left handed pitching. All teams will platoon but none of the other 29 teams did this so 100% to every single left handed developing prospect. Not one.  

I wanted some experimentation between the 5 to 6 inning starter and the 1 inning bullpen guy. I'm getting that it with Ohl and Adams. I don't know if these are the right guys to experiment with... I don't know if it will work out in the end but I appreciate the attempt because I'm pretty convinced that in the future there will be something different than a 5 man rotation and 1 inning bullpen guys. I don't know what that will be but something will be different and maybe the Twins could be that team to lead the way. 

In the end... I'm getting what I asked for so no complaints. I'm pretty convinced that the team's budget was maxed out and the team was going to run into a budget wall needing to fill at least 7 roster spots with maybe 10 million to work with. They had no other place to go. What they do from here will depend largely on one thing.

DEVELOPMENT. We will find out if we have the right guys.  

 

[jorgenswest]

Any new wants for next year?

[Riverbrian]

15 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Any new wants for next year?

Nothing new. 

We might be at 18-20 pre-arb players currently but it doesn't mean that the 18-20 pre-arb players are the right players. It doesn't mean this front office won't spend 20 million in the off season on 7 low value 1 year contract free agents and go right back into the same ditch. 

I want the development bottleneck cleared. I want the reason for the bottleneck identified and addressed.

If the system isn't producing players the manager trusts. I either want a new front office that can guide the organization toward sustaining development or I want the current front office to change priority immediately and simply succeed developing players that the manager will trust or I want a manager that WILL TRUST. Other teams are doing it with much greater success.  

I want the bottleneck identified and cleared, I don't want them spending a dime until they figure out what is wrong in the system... or a new front office that comes in with development as the #1 priority. 

I don't want to end up in this position again.

It's 2025... We don't have a catcher, 1B, SS or CF near major league ready. We are largely dependent on players developed by other organizations. 

I don't want to end up in this position ever again. 

[jorgenswest]

I don’t know how to describe it as a want other than I want them to compete.

The Berrios deal set the course for 2023. They moved Berrios for prospects. It wasn’t a salary dump. They took that same salary slot and traded a prospect for Sonny Gray. Gray’s salary slot helped pay for Lopez when he was extended. For the rest of 21 and 22 from Berrios and Chase Petty the Twins received two full seasons of Gray, Woods Richardson, Austin Martin, Francis Peguero and Kyle DeBarge (comp pick for Gray). Someone argued then that they didn’t have a plan. Why trade a starter for prospects and then trade prospects for a starter? They ended up trade the lost half season of 21 for the full season of 23. Brilliantly done.

How can they reinvest the savings in summer’s purge back into the team? They need the right veteran players too. They need to be at the top of the rotation or the top of the line up or late inning relievers. I like the way the Brewers and Mariners have acquired their relievers so preferably they keep Joe and Pablo for this year and trade for a really good bat.

[Riverbrian]

On 9/5/2025 at 7:53 AM, jorgenswest said:

I don’t know how to describe it as a want other than I want them to compete.

The Berrios deal set the course for 2023. They moved Berrios for prospects. It wasn’t a salary dump. They took that same salary slot and traded a prospect for Sonny Gray. Gray’s salary slot helped pay for Lopez when he was extended. For the rest of 21 and 22 from Berrios and Chase Petty the Twins received two full seasons of Gray, Woods Richardson, Austin Martin, Francis Peguero and Kyle DeBarge (comp pick for Gray). Someone argued then that they didn’t have a plan. Why trade a starter for prospects and then trade prospects for a starter? They ended up trade the lost half season of 21 for the full season of 23. Brilliantly done.

How can they reinvest the savings in summer’s purge back into the team? They need the right veteran players too. They need to be at the top of the rotation or the top of the line up or late inning relievers. I like the way the Brewers and Mariners have acquired their relievers so preferably they keep Joe and Pablo for this year and trade for a really good bat.

I want them to compete as well. There should be room on the 26 man roster for vets but we need better vets or at very least... we can't treat everyone of them like they can't be replaced regardless of the performance they are providing. I don't have a magic number of pre-arb players... 18 is fine... 15 is probably OK but I do know that I have a magic number of Dylan Bundy or Ty France type vets. That number is zero. We can't be 8 or 9 years into a regime and not have major league ready talent from the farm at the C, 1B, SS and CF positions.   

I truly believe the Twins front office hit a wall. It was a wall that I've been pointing at for a couple years now. There was a bill that would come due for the year over year parade of cheap one year vets that was sustaining them. They were going to run out of money this off-season and payroll wasn't going to go up... we all know that payroll wasn't going up. 7 expiring contracts were going to need replacements just to field a roster in 2026. Arb raises were going to eat the majority of money available from the expiring contracts and leave barely enough money to barely address the 7 expiring contract spots.  Luke Keaschall by himself as the lone farm system representative wasn't going to be enough to comfortably fill those 7 expiring contracts. 

If this 2025 team was competing and we didn't sell this past deadline. We would have had to do some selling in the off-season... the bill was due or past due because they were not producing enough major league minimum major league talent. 

In order to prepare for 2026 and replacing those 7 expiring contracts, the off-season would have required a trade of significant salary (Lopez or Correa for example) just to raise enough money to fill those 7 spots with low budget one year guys again for another year of holding the farm back... just sustaining the problem for another year of it. 8 spots actually because you will have to include the guy you traded to free up cash or 9  or 10 spots if its multiple guys traded to free up the cash needed to continue down the highway they chose.

A highway chosen either out of necessity of farm system failure or out of necessity due to a questionable faith in the one year vet 4 million dollar vet. I don't what the issue is... just reasonably certain that there is a major issue.  

The Twins put themselves in this position... it was unavoidable on the highway they chose to drive down. The trade deadline freed up cash. The Correa trade freed up cash, The trading of Duran and Jax removed a couple of significant arb raises. But... we are now in the position to seriously consider if we should actually spend that freed up money next year. I don't know the answer to that and it is certainly debate worthy.   

In regards to weather they should spend money this off-season. I'm not sure what I would do as the GM.

On one hand... I think the team is closer to contention than most of us feel right now. If they hang on to Ryan, Lopez and Ober with Matthews, SWR and with the additions of Bradley, Abel and Rojas, plus any kind of progress with the group of Morris, Raya and Lewis types. The team has the makings of a decent competitive starting staff with decent necessary depth in 2026. Offensively, I don't think that we are worse off after the deadline than we were before the deadline. The loss of Correa was a potential blow on paper but he hadn't been producing offensive numbers that much better than what a struggling still learning Brooks Lee is currently producing. Willi Castro was a nice player, Bader was a nice player but they were gone after the season. The Bullpen... that's another story. The bullpen is perhaps the easiest to fix but how long will it take? I don't know because we really did a number on it. In order to justify the blowing up of the bullpen... Development will be the key. We got to turn Abel, Tait, Bradley, Outman, Roden and Rojas into something or the trading of Duran, Jax and Varland was completely unnecessary. It's harder to turn them into something with Dylan Bundy and Ty France types limiting their exposure needed to eventually become what they need to make Bundy and France unnecessary in the first place.  

So far... what has the farm done in the past few years on the offensive side of the ledger? Larnach, Wallner, Kirilloff and Julien kept firmly away from left handed pitchers. Bride and Clemens chosen over farm system talent. Royce Lewis in a year long slump despite being paid arbitration money. Jeffers and nobody else produced at the Catcher position. Ryan Fitzgerald at age 31 the only SS option for the current roster after Lee. No 1B... CF needing recently acquired Rodan or Outman to give Buxton a breather.  

I don't care who the owner is... I don't believe that a new owner is going to raise payroll significantly and even if a new owner raised payroll significantly it won't be enough that it will lessen the need for development. An extra 20 million spent will not lessen the need for better development. Without development, the players will eventually price themselves out. The Bill will come due, the money will dry up and the wall will be struck head on like it just was. 

I've just come to the conclusion that this organization (and many other organizations) can't sustain competitive baseball without massive improvement in regards to development.

My jaw is still on the floor over this deadline. I don't disagree with it... it was necessary but the depth of it shocked me. By Depth... I mean the near complete dismantling of the bullpen was the shock to my system. Even after the mass exodus of players... we still don't have a major league ready C, 1B, SS or CF. 

I don't know if this front office can do it but I'd like to see if the Rocco can start placing more faith in players that will be back next year instead of more faith in the players who won't be. Let's start there. 

[amjgt]

5 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I don’t know how to describe it as a want other than I want them to compete.

 

I came here today looking to make a similar comment in whatever thread made the most sense. I figured there would be one. This thread is as good as any...

I want a front office that feels empowered to make tough decisions. Decisions that will undoubtedly be unpopular with many fans but are part of a long term plan. Sell offs like we had this year fall under that category and I largely supported (and still support) most of the individual decisions that were made. 

There are two problems with how things have gone after the trade deadline. 

1) The plan. Fans need to be able to see it. You don't need to tell us the plan, but we don't want to look at what's going on and think "is the plan just to slash payroll, not only in 2025, but 2026 and beyond?" At the trade deadline, there was still the massive unanswered question around ownership. So, while we maybe didn't understand the plan, it was easy to look at the overall situation and say to ourselves "new owners are coming. New owners = New plan." But then not long after the deadline we get the ownership news and we're back to wondering if the plan is almost exclusively tied to payroll decisions

2) The tank. I have no problem with a tank. Back to making tough decisions, a tank falls under that umbrella. The season is/was lost, so why not give the young guys a shot and make some trades that infuse your farm system with guys that will hopefully be part of your future. But I fear we've crossed a line here. When a team performs THIS poorly I believe it has an avalanche effect on everything. Rather than the story becoming the young guys getting a shot, the story morphs into one of utter failure and embarrassment. Once you become an embarrassment bad things start to happen. The parts of your team that ARE performing get ignored and the parts of your team that aren't performing get amplified. All everyone talks about is how much of an embarrassment you are. Media. Fans. Probably players behind the scenes. An attitude of pure apathy sets in and you reach a tipping point. You're no longer tanking. You're failing. Most people can see the logic of a tank, but those same people can't stand failure. 

So, did the front office (and ownership) not properly assess the damage that would be done by selling off as much as they did? Yeah. Probably. It feels that way.

 

[Mike Sixel]

I wanted pre arb players from the system, not Clemens and Gasper, and the chaffe from the team from the system gone, aka Julien. And I certainly didn't want Kiersey and outman both on the roster. 

We're going to read they have to keep some of those guys next year, because you can't replace so many people..... Had they called up fedko, Gonzalez , or whomever, they wouldn't be replacing them..... They'd be up. Same with Raya in the bullpen.....

[ashbury]

12 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I wanted pre arb players from the system, not Clemens and Gasper, and the chaffe from the team from the system gone, aka Julien. And I certainly didn't want Kiersey and outman both on the roster. 

 

 

"I can see now that I should have been more specific."

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

 

"I can see now that I should have been more specific."

Definitely how I feel!

[jorgenswest]

4 hours ago, amjgt said:

I came here today looking to make a similar comment in whatever thread made the most sense. I figured there would be one. This thread is as good as any...

I want a front office that feels empowered to make tough decisions. Decisions that will undoubtedly be unpopular with many fans but are part of a long term plan. Sell offs like we had this year fall under that category and I largely supported (and still support) most of the individual decisions that were made. 

There are two problems with how things have gone after the trade deadline. 

1) The plan. Fans need to be able to see it. You don't need to tell us the plan, but we don't want to look at what's going on and think "is the plan just to slash payroll, not only in 2025, but 2026 and beyond?" At the trade deadline, there was still the massive unanswered question around ownership. So, while we maybe didn't understand the plan, it was easy to look at the overall situation and say to ourselves "new owners are coming. New owners = New plan." But then not long after the deadline we get the ownership news and we're back to wondering if the plan is almost exclusively tied to payroll decisions

2) The tank. I have no problem with a tank. Back to making tough decisions, a tank falls under that umbrella. The season is/was lost, so why not give the young guys a shot and make some trades that infuse your farm system with guys that will hopefully be part of your future. But I fear we've crossed a line here. When a team performs THIS poorly I believe it has an avalanche effect on everything. Rather than the story becoming the young guys getting a shot, the story morphs into one of utter failure and embarrassment. Once you become an embarrassment bad things start to happen. The parts of your team that ARE performing get ignored and the parts of your team that aren't performing get amplified. All everyone talks about is how much of an embarrassment you are. Media. Fans. Probably players behind the scenes. An attitude of pure apathy sets in and you reach a tipping point. You're no longer tanking. You're failing. Most people can see the logic of a tank, but those same people can't stand failure. 

So, did the front office (and ownership) not properly assess the damage that would be done by selling off as much as they did? Yeah. Probably. It feels that way.

 

Do you think they got enough at the deadline? My argument was that teams don’t let go of prospects like they did in the 2010s. It took 5 years of service time of an all star to get a top 10 prospect. Less than 10 years ago it took a rental in Chapman to get that. Look at the prospects that have moved the last few years. The trading environment has shifted. There is a huge difference between a player in the mid 100s on the prospect list to a player in the top 10. If you are only getting FV 45 and 50 players for the very good relievers with 3 post seasons or more of control would you make the deals? Can you build a team on a bunch of guys with a future value of number 4 starter or average position player? The best they received is an FV50 with a high risk of getting there. Is that the foundation for building towards a team that contend for the World Series or is it continuing on the cycle of mediocrity?

[amjgt]

21 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Do you think they got enough at the deadline? My argument was that teams don’t let go of prospects like they did in the 2010s. It took 5 years of service time of an all star to get a top 10 prospect. Less than 10 years ago it took a rental in Chapman to get that. Look at the prospects that have moved the last few years. The trading environment has shifted. There is a huge difference between a player in the mid 100s on the prospect list to a player in the top 10. If you are only getting FV 45 and 50 players for the very good relievers with 3 post seasons or more of control would you make the deals? Can you build a team on a bunch of guys with a future value of number 4 starter or average position player? The best they received is an FV50 with a high risk of getting there. Is that the foundation for building towards a team that contend for the World Series or is it continuing on the cycle of mediocrity?

The future will tell us whether they, on an individual basis, made good deals or bad deals. I assume the front office made what they felt were the best deals possible.

I’m not arguing about the return. None of us really know.

I’m saying we cut SO deep into the roster that we went beyond a tank and are inadvertently doing real long term damage to the brand. A brand that doesn’t really have enough strength to be taking on extra damage. 

A tank is one thing. Trotting out this bullpen is an insult. And people don’t like to feel insulted. 

[DocBauer]

OK, who are YOU and where is the @Riverbrianwe all know and love? LOL

I'll pick up the mantle a bit here since you are obviously on meds of some sort. 😁

Having more LH bats is a GOOD THING. When those LH bats include Outman, Keirsey, and Julien, it's NOT a good thing. 

@LA VIkes Fanhas posted numbers recently that even though Wallner has had a disturbingly and unexpected down season, he's actually IMPROVED his numbers against LHP beyond a suck point. I think that was the plan all along sans his injury that has seemed to disrupt his whole season somehow. Larnach ended up inheriting those AB and has responded with a major OOMPH!

The fact that the current roster includes DOUBLE TROUBLE with BOTH Outman and Keirsey is beyond ridiculous! NEITHER can HIT AT ALL. (To be fair, maybe Keirsey hasn't been given an honest chance). But with so much 40 man roster flexibility available right now, why in HELL wouldnt the FO just add Fedko as a RH bat having the best season of his career and see if he might actually have potential for the future? He'd also be pre-arbitration at this point. And if you really didn't like what you saw, you could remove from the 40 man.

As far as relievers than can throw a couple solid innings and come back for more 2 days later? I still think it's a solid idea. I like it a hell of a lot better than throwing an arm to the wolves and swapping them out for a different arm. Rinse and repeat. 

IMO, you build a pen of 6 1 IP arms and have TWO guys at 7-8 who can go 1-2  IP every 2 days as a bridge to your other 6. Maybe they do 3 IP on occasion. But if it's only 40 pitches, 2 days off should be enough. I think the Twins are on to something here. Provided, of course, that you don't have a crappy rotation. 

The current problem is Adams and Ohl are not only rookies, and initial test subjects for this idea, but the rest of the pen is CRAP. But I still think it's a good way to re-invent the bullpen.

[DocBauer]

8 hours ago, amjgt said:

I came here today looking to make a similar comment in whatever thread made the most sense. I figured there would be one. This thread is as good as any...

I want a front office that feels empowered to make tough decisions. Decisions that will undoubtedly be unpopular with many fans but are part of a long term plan. Sell offs like we had this year fall under that category and I largely supported (and still support) most of the individual decisions that were made. 

There are two problems with how things have gone after the trade deadline. 

1) The plan. Fans need to be able to see it. You don't need to tell us the plan, but we don't want to look at what's going on and think "is the plan just to slash payroll, not only in 2025, but 2026 and beyond?" At the trade deadline, there was still the massive unanswered question around ownership. So, while we maybe didn't understand the plan, it was easy to look at the overall situation and say to ourselves "new owners are coming. New owners = New plan." But then not long after the deadline we get the ownership news and we're back to wondering if the plan is almost exclusively tied to payroll decisions

2) The tank. I have no problem with a tank. Back to making tough decisions, a tank falls under that umbrella. The season is/was lost, so why not give the young guys a shot and make some trades that infuse your farm system with guys that will hopefully be part of your future. But I fear we've crossed a line here. When a team performs THIS poorly I believe it has an avalanche effect on everything. Rather than the story becoming the young guys getting a shot, the story morphs into one of utter failure and embarrassment. Once you become an embarrassment bad things start to happen. The parts of your team that ARE performing get ignored and the parts of your team that aren't performing get amplified. All everyone talks about is how much of an embarrassment you are. Media. Fans. Probably players behind the scenes. An attitude of pure apathy sets in and you reach a tipping point. You're no longer tanking. You're failing. Most people can see the logic of a tank, but those same people can't stand failure. 

So, did the front office (and ownership) not properly assess the damage that would be done by selling off as much as they did? Yeah. Probably. It feels that way.

 

I don't understand the TANKING philosophy unless your organization is just at a DEAD END due to age, injury, lost talent to FA, etc.

It sometimes works in a more controlled environment like the NFL, for example, where draft picks and UDFA, and the signing of FA might provide a fairly quick turnaround. But it seldom works out the way as planned as MLB is still dependent on prospects for development or trade. Unless you have massive amounts of $ to spend freely. 

In fairly recent history, the Astro's were both smart and lucky and made it work. The Orioles climbed the ladder for about a season and then collapsed. The Royals endured how many poor seasons before throwing some $ at additions along with some good players and got their shot.

What happened to Falvey's comments about competitive competition?

Right now, TODAY, the Twins have a great 1-3 rotation arms and depth to compete. They have a few guys with great talent in Lewis and Wallner that need to "figure it out" and get ready for 2026. Hopefully, Lee keeps on an uptick to finally realize what zones he can HIT in and stop chasing crap he only makes week contact in. He SEEMS to be on the right path.

And the organization has so many top 100-ish players like Keaschall...already performing...and Jenkins, Rodriguez, and K-Pepper so very close.

STARTING PITCHING is the hardest thing to develop. And with a hopefully healthy Ober for 2026, with Matthews as #4, and tons of depth completion behind them, WHY IN HELL would you destroy what you have in place??!!

In what business world and product model do you just destroy everything you've built when you might about to reap dividends?

But maybe that's the Pohlad idea of success. Just settle for what you have, borrow against it, and then trade it in for less than you could have had.

 

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, DocBauer said:

OK, who are YOU and where is the @Riverbrianwe all know and love? LOL

I'll pick up the mantle a bit here since you are obviously on meds of some sort. 😁

Having more LH bats is a GOOD THING. When those LH bats include Outman, Keirsey, and Julien, it's NOT a good thing. 

There are two complaint boxes and I'm not sure what box this one goes in. The "do we have the right 18 to 20 pre-arb players" complaint box and the "left handed hitting" complaint box. 

The do we have the right 18 to 20 pre-arb players complaint box is on your left and the left handed hitting complaint box is on your right. Yeah I know... I admit that I need catchier titles for the boxes. 

Outman, Keirsay and Julien do one good thing though.

They make it impossible to platoon Wallner because left handed hitters make poor platoon partners with left handed hitters. 

And Lo and Behold... Turns out Wallner may have never needed to be platooned in the first place. 

 

[Riverbrian]

On 9/5/2025 at 12:50 PM, amjgt said:

I came here today looking to make a similar comment in whatever thread made the most sense. I figured there would be one. This thread is as good as any...

I want a front office that feels empowered to make tough decisions. Decisions that will undoubtedly be unpopular with many fans but are part of a long term plan. Sell offs like we had this year fall under that category and I largely supported (and still support) most of the individual decisions that were made. 

There are two problems with how things have gone after the trade deadline. 

1) The plan. Fans need to be able to see it. You don't need to tell us the plan, but we don't want to look at what's going on and think "is the plan just to slash payroll, not only in 2025, but 2026 and beyond?" At the trade deadline, there was still the massive unanswered question around ownership. So, while we maybe didn't understand the plan, it was easy to look at the overall situation and say to ourselves "new owners are coming. New owners = New plan." But then not long after the deadline we get the ownership news and we're back to wondering if the plan is almost exclusively tied to payroll decisions

2) The tank. I have no problem with a tank. Back to making tough decisions, a tank falls under that umbrella. The season is/was lost, so why not give the young guys a shot and make some trades that infuse your farm system with guys that will hopefully be part of your future. But I fear we've crossed a line here. When a team performs THIS poorly I believe it has an avalanche effect on everything. Rather than the story becoming the young guys getting a shot, the story morphs into one of utter failure and embarrassment. Once you become an embarrassment bad things start to happen. The parts of your team that ARE performing get ignored and the parts of your team that aren't performing get amplified. All everyone talks about is how much of an embarrassment you are. Media. Fans. Probably players behind the scenes. An attitude of pure apathy sets in and you reach a tipping point. You're no longer tanking. You're failing. Most people can see the logic of a tank, but those same people can't stand failure. 

So, did the front office (and ownership) not properly assess the damage that would be done by selling off as much as they did? Yeah. Probably. It feels that way.

 

Tanking is marketing term that has is often used and often used succussfully.

I remember a few years back when a bunch of free agents were unsigned with spring training underway. 2017-2018?. I remember reading a ton of articles all with the term tanking prominent in each article with the MLBPA and Boros quoted to keep the message resonating in an attempt to get the fans on their side to put pressure on MLB front offices to sign Mike Moustakas. Every CBA the tanking articles come out in force... it's coordinated and it takes practically no effort to crank the tanking engine up. It's part of the sports vernacular... It's an easy word for all to grasp. It's got a melody that the fans can sing to. 

The problem is that there really isn't an equal marketing catch phrase to represent the other side in these situations. Rebuild should be a positive term... Let's rebuild that chair. That's a positive phrase. In the end you get a better chair. Unfortunately... rebuild in sports implies losses with no guarantee of a better chair. 

The Twins are certainly going to absorb some short term damage to the reputation of the organization. Long term damage? I personally doubt it. In 1986 the Twins averaged 15,499 fans... They ranked 13th out of 14 American League teams in attendance by 1988 the Twins were averaging 37 thousand and ranked 1st out of 14 AL teams. I don't know what happened... perhaps that world series in win in 1987 helped. 

I agree with you... this rebuild was necessary. I was shocked by the depth of it but it was necessary. Was the degree of it necessary is worthy of debate... did we get the right return is worthy of debate but a new direction was needed because they ran out of road.

The organization is going to have to sleep in the bed they made and absorb the blows. If they can develop... don' t know if they can... but if they can. The blows will stop or at least come at a lighter frequency if they can develop.   

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 9/5/2025 at 12:43 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I wanted pre arb players from the system, not Clemens and Gasper, and the chaffe from the team from the system gone, aka Julien. And I certainly didn't want Kiersey and outman both on the roster. 

We're going to read they have to keep some of those guys next year, because you can't replace so many people..... Had they called up fedko, Gonzalez , or whomever, they wouldn't be replacing them..... They'd be up. Same with Raya in the bullpen.....

At least they finally released Kriske and called up Ohl. Hatch started off well and it has just fallen off a cliff. I completely agree with you. I don’t see any reason to keep running the same losers out there. Use this month to try out new guys you’re unsure about like Fedko, Baker, and Lawyerson.

[RpR]

1 minute ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

At least they finally released Kriske and called up Ohl. Hatch started off well and it has just fallen off a cliff. I completely agree with you. I don’t see any reason to keep running the same losers out there. Use this month to try out new guys you’re unsure about like Fedko, Baker, and Lawyerson.

Ryan fell off of a cliff also, time will tell.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

21 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Tanking is marketing term that has is often used and often used succussfully.

I remember a few years back when a bunch of free agents were unsigned with spring training underway. 2017-2018?. I remember reading a ton of articles all with the term tanking prominent in each article with the MLBPA and Boros quoted to keep the message resonating in an attempt to get the fans on their side to put pressure on MLB front offices to sign Mike Moustakas. Every CBA the tanking articles come out in force... it's coordinated and it takes practically no effort to crank the tanking engine up. It's part of the sports vernacular... It's an easy word for all to grasp. It's got a melody that the fans can sing to. 

The problem is that there really isn't an equal marketing catch phrase to represent the other side in these situations. Rebuild should be a positive term... Let's rebuild that chair. That's a positive phrase. In the end you get a better chair. Unfortunately... rebuild in sports implies losses with no guarantee of a better chair. 

The Twins are certainly going to absorb some short term damage to the reputation of the organization. Long term damage? I personally doubt it. In 1986 the Twins averaged 15,499 fans... They ranked 13th out of 14 American League teams in attendance by 1988 the Twins were averaging 37 thousand and ranked 1st out of 14 AL teams. I don't know what happened... perhaps that world series in win in 1987 helped. 

I agree with you... this rebuild was necessary. I was shocked by the depth of it but it was necessary. Was the degree of it necessary is worthy of debate... did we get the right return is worthy of debate but a new direction was needed because they ran out of road.

The organization is going to have to sleep in the bed they made and absorb the blows. If they can develop... don' t know if they can... but if they can. The blows will stop or at least come at a lighter frequency if they can develop.   

Along with not being able to pinch hit for Wallner and learning that Wallner can indeed hit lefties better than a mediocre rhh, I hope the Pohlads and Falvey have learned the cost of their indecision.

the FO didn’t have to blow it up this year. They could have taken an incremental approach prior to 2024 to build the prospect capital and develop minor leaguers before the team became too stale.

[Riverbrian]

10 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Along with not being able to pinch hit for Wallner and learning that Wallner can indeed hit lefties better than a mediocre rhh, I hope the Pohlads and Falvey have learned the cost of their indecision.

the FO didn’t have to blow it up this year. They could have taken an incremental approach prior to 2024 to build the prospect capital and develop minor leaguers before the team became too stale.

Exactly.

You see it. 

Incremental. Consistent.

And a probability that this could have been avoided. 

Instead... the path chosen produced a high probability that this was inevitable. 

Now we get to see what they can do with the... umm... All at once method.