2025 Vikings Offseason

[nicksaviking]

Yeah, I'll start it right away. Share your optimistic thoughts here everyone!

[TheLeviathan]

Sign DJ Reed.   Sign Trey Smith.

Draft DT.

JJ balls out.

[Mike Sixel]

Ol, ol, ol. Just buy two OL in free agency. 

Might want to make Turner play, since you used all those picks on him. 

Let Darnold walk. He's a backup. I was fooled.

I won't be upset if they fire everyone but Flores, but I won't be happy either. 

[nicksaviking]

The Vikings, Twins, Wolves and Wild need to all collaborate on a commissioned study as to why men's pro teams in this state always choke.

That sounds like a joke but it's not. There's zero chance it's a coincidence and the only common denominator seems to be atmosphere. What about this area specifically imparts this anti-clutch activity, and how do the teams counter it? I know it must be psychological, but there are cures for psychological issues. 

[Aggies7]

58 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The Vikings, Twins, Wolves and Wild need to all collaborate on a commissioned study as to why men's pro teams in this state always choke.

That sounds like a joke but it's not. There's zero chance it's a coincidence and the only common denominator seems to be atmosphere. What about this area specifically imparts this anti-clutch activity, and how do the teams counter it? I know it must be psychological, but there are cures for psychological issues. 

This is what Red Sox fans went through for generations. My grandpa was one. This will be the most cliche things ever, but you cure it by just going out and doing it! What did the ‘04 Red Sox do when they beat the Yankees? They made a few plays and it started rolling. They never looked back after that game 4 win. And then did it in the World Series. And then three more times just for the **** if it. I think having some mentally strong players definitely helps. The 04 Red Sox were just dudes (another cliche), mostly. Just ball players who came through when they had the chance. Vikings have had far too many mentally weak players. Talented but mentally not tough.

[Cap'n Piranha]

It starts with the inability to draft solid starters, let alone impact ones.  It continues with not valuing draft picks, leaving the Vikings with an old roster (oldest team in the NFL by weighted snap) and no real way to get younger until 2026–when either McCarthy and Turner have become busts, or you're getting ready to pay them a combined $80M a year.  It ends with all the chips on McCarthy to be better than Darnold, or at least better when it counts, sometime in the next 2 years.  If it doesn’t happen by then, either Kwesi needs to figure out how to draft or the window is closed.

There’s possibility to compete next year—another good FA class, minimal to no regression from the current roster, and the right guy in round 1, and we will have a shot.  The money in FA will need to be spent well, because right now, I think the roster needs 3 CB, 2 S, at least 1 DL, 1 RB, and 3 IOL.  It will be tough to get 10 quality players for $80M or so—it took almost $37M to get Greenard/AVG/Cashman.

[nicksaviking]

27 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

This is what Red Sox fans went through for generations. My grandpa was one. This will be the most cliche things ever, but you cure it by just going out and doing it! What did the ‘04 Red Sox do when they beat the Yankees? They made a few plays and it started rolling. They never looked back after that game 4 win. And then did it in the World Series. And then three more times just for the **** if it. I think having some mentally strong players definitely helps. The 04 Red Sox were just dudes (another cliche), mostly. Just ball players who came through when they had the chance. Vikings have had far too many mentally weak players. Talented but mentally not tough.

But that doesn't track, because the players on the four Minnesota sports teams don't come from Minnesota and there's no chance that all four of our teams coincidentally all just acquire mentally weak players by nature while the other cities don't. Something HERE makes them weak or allows them to think trying hard but losing, or just making the playoffs, or being happy to play the game is satisfactory enough. It's doubtful you can change the entire state culture, so you have to find out what exactly the source is and you have to find a way to counter it.

[Mike Sixel]

KOC saying they need to fix the IOL.... So they at least recognize one issue

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

KOC saying they need to fix the IOL.... So they at least recognize one issue

Yeah, that's positive. As I mentioned before, I think they need to get a new OL coach too. while the blocking is unacceptable the situational awareness is awful too.

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

But that doesn't track, because the players on the four Minnesota sports teams don't come from Minnesota and there's no chance that all four of our teams coincidentally all just acquire mentally weak players by nature while the other cities don't. Something HERE makes them weak or allows them to think trying hard but losing, or just making the playoffs, or being happy to play the game is satisfactory enough. It's doubtful you can change the entire state culture, so you have to find out what exactly the source is and you have to find a way to counter it.

sigh

This is just a fan narrative that makes the losses feel better. Also, you have to exclude professional women's sports and men's college hockey to make it work. The most likely reason is simple - ****** ownership and less resources than other teams. Men's hockey rules in MN so our colleges have a ton of talent to take from and have won the frozen four like 11 times since 2010. Women's basketball doesn't have to compete against massive payroll disadvantages that several of our teams have.

Other than the Vikings (who are in a period of good ownership now but have had bad ownership in the past), I don't think any of our other teams have had good owners in forty years.

(Also, for your crazy theory, you should've argued that our teams overachieve so that they get put into places they aren't suited for. These Vikings should have won 6 games and got a top 15 pick. Instead, they won 14 and went to the playoffs).

[gunnarthor]

Maybe to keep this on topic, the Vikings are actually in a pretty good spot. They'll have to fix the IOL - Trey Smith is gonna get a lot of money but we might pay him. And they'll need to add a few people to the secondary but the roster is pretty set and the places that need upgrading are obvious. I posted some of the free agents in the other thread but I suspect the Vikings will make a splash there.

I do hope the Vikings bring in another offensive mind though (I'd like to steal someone from Buffalo, Baltimore or Cincy). I thought KOC was outcoached two weeks in a row and didn't do well on adjusting to what was happening. He's a great coach but he needs someone in his ear b/c he doesn't seem to know when he's failing, too.

[nicksaviking]

4 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

sigh

This is just a fan narrative that makes the losses feel better. Also, you have to exclude professional women's sports and men's college hockey to make it work. The most likely reason is simple - ****** ownership and less resources than other teams. Men's hockey rules in MN so our colleges have a ton of talent to take from and have won the frozen four like 11 times since 2010. Women's basketball doesn't have to compete against massive payroll disadvantages that several of our teams have.

Other than the Vikings (who are in a period of good ownership now but have had bad ownership in the past), I don't think any of our other teams have had good owners in forty years.

(Also, for your crazy theory, you should've argued that our teams overachieve so that they get put into places they aren't suited for. These Vikings should have won 6 games and got a top 15 pick. Instead, they won 14 and went to the playoffs).

The losses absolutely don't make anyone feel better, at this point, each one makes it feel more and more like a lost cause. It's not ownership because the four men's pro sports teams have four very different kinds of ownership. 

I'm not going to make a definitive statement as to what the issue is (hence my request for a comprehensive study) but my guess is the fans and the media here aren't as aggressively vocal and don't demand as much from the players and the teams that the coastal, southern and rust-belt teams get. I'd guess the players get accustomed to a cozy, locally-focused regular season environment and when they get into the hostile, nationally-scrutinized post season environment it's like a bucket of cold water poured over their heads. 

But again, I'd like something researched. 

[Aggies7]

It will be interesting to see if the Vikings grab a running back, now that the RB position is enjoying a bit of a resurgence. They actually didn’t run the ball THAT poorly last night, they just couldn’t stick with it as the game got out of hand. Anything to take pressure off of McCarthy.

[TheLeviathan]

32 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It will be interesting to see if the Vikings grab a running back, now that the RB position is enjoying a bit of a resurgence. They actually didn’t run the ball THAT poorly last night, they just couldn’t stick with it as the game got out of hand. Anything to take pressure off of McCarthy.

Jones was fine, but absolutely this needs to be a focus.

[Vanimal46]

This needs to be a trenches focused offseason. The IOL needs to be addressed once and for all. It’s abundantly clear Brandel is a backup caliber player. Bradbury has bothered me for literal years. Risner is another backup caliber player. Beef up the OL. 

[Vanimal46]

The best guard we’ve had in the last 15 years is Joe Berger. Joe freaking Berger! It’s madness that we have not figured this out over the last 20 years. 

[nicksaviking]

9 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

This needs to be a trenches focused offseason. The IOL needs to be addressed once and for all. It’s abundantly clear Brandel is a backup caliber player. Bradbury has bothered me for literal years. Risner is another backup caliber player. Beef up the OL. 

For sure. I don't trust their drafting though so I'd rather the IOL be fixed via free agency.

As much as I'd rather not, I guess I wouldn't be against going after a RB early in the draft. It does feel like it might be one of the harder positions for Adofo-Mensah to completely whiff on again.

[Aggies7]

One of the things not being mentioned regarding this season, and going forward, is how healthy this team was in 2024. Compared to 2023, well there is no comparison. One vital player lost to IR, but overall, an incredible amount of luck in regards to injuries. Knowing how tough that is to replicate, I would not expect that to repeat next season. And that’s scary, we were almost entirely healthy the whole season and still couldn’t do anything with it.

[gunnarthor]

2 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

One of the things not being mentioned regarding this season, and going forward, is how healthy this team was in 2024. Compared to 2023, well there is no comparison. One vital player lost to IR, but overall, an incredible amount of luck in regards to injuries. Knowing how tough that is to replicate, I would not expect that to repeat next season. And that’s scary, we were almost entirely healthy the whole season and still couldn’t do anything with it.

We missed both Pace and Cashman for a bit, Addison for a few games, Jones was knocked out of a few games, Jones II for a few games, the kicker and long snapper for four games, Darrisaw for half the season, Hockinson for half the season, McCarthy for the full season, Blackmon for the full season, I think one of our DL guys. Also one of our back up TEs were out. One of the corners? Can't remember.

I think we actually had the normal amount of injuries but did a good job of "next man up" stuff. 

[Parfigliano]

18 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, I'll start it right away. Share your optimistic thoughts here everyone!

Wow body's not even cold yet.

[Parfigliano]

17 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

It starts with the inability to draft solid starters, let alone impact ones.  It continues with not valuing draft picks, leaving the Vikings with an old roster (oldest team in the NFL by weighted snap) and no real way to get younger until 2026–when either McCarthy and Turner have become busts, or you're getting ready to pay them a combined $80M a year.  It ends with all the chips on McCarthy to be better than Darnold, or at least better when it counts, sometime in the next 2 years.  If it doesn’t happen by then, either Kwesi needs to figure out how to draft or the window is closed.

There’s possibility to compete next year—another good FA class, minimal to no regression from the current roster, and the right guy in round 1, and we will have a shot.  The money in FA will need to be spent well, because right now, I think the roster needs 3 CB, 2 S, at least 1 DL, 1 RB, and 3 IOL.  It will be tough to get 10 quality players for $80M or so—it took almost $37M to get Greenard/AVG/Cashman.

Bad drafts sounds like a Kwesi problem.

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

One of the things not being mentioned regarding this season, and going forward, is how healthy this team was in 2024. Compared to 2023, well there is no comparison. One vital player lost to IR, but overall, an incredible amount of luck in regards to injuries. Knowing how tough that is to replicate, I would not expect that to repeat next season. And that’s scary, we were almost entirely healthy the whole season and still couldn’t do anything with it.

Other than win the third most games in the league, you mean?

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Other than win the third most games in the league, you mean?

Big deal, one more game played than 18 other teams.

[Aggies7]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

We missed both Pace and Cashman for a bit, Addison for a few games, Jones was knocked out of a few games, Jones II for a few games, the kicker and long snapper for four games, Darrisaw for half the season, Hockinson for half the season, McCarthy for the full season, Blackmon for the full season, I think one of our DL guys. Also one of our back up TEs were out. One of the corners? Can't remember.

I think we actually had the normal amount of injuries but did a good job of "next man up" stuff. 

Ok, either way, it’s not usually something you can count on repeating because it’s largely out of anyone’s control. I wonder how 2023 would have gone with this year’s health and vice versa. It seems like the league is becoming more of one of attrition since they added the extra game.
 

The healthiest teams are surely more successful. This guy attempts to quantify it for 2024 https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/2024/12/26/which-nfl-teams-have-been-most-and-least-impacted-by-injuries/

Seems to make sense in the Vikings case. 13th in total points per game missed to IR, but 6th fewest total points lost overall. Had a couple long term IR guys like but less missed on the shorter term (I would assume)

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

32 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Big deal, one more game played than 18 other teams.

If all you care about is winning it all, you probably need a new hobby, because you're going to be disappointed.

[Aggies7]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If all you care about is winning it all, you probably need a new hobby, because you're going to be disappointed.

Haha what else is there? My dad is 70 years old and I looked at him last night and I’m like, this guy may legitimately never see a Super Bowl win and he’s been a fan his entire life. I’ve thought about that before but he had heart surgery over the summer and it hit me this time. He’s been right there with me watching all these losses. That’s really sad, as far as being a fan goes. Just give me one and I’ll enjoy the ride. Til then, 14 win wild card exits don’t move the needle

[gunnarthor]

48 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Big deal, one more game played than 18 other teams.

Everyone can enjoy sports however they want but suggesting 14-3 and a team that goes 4-13 are comparable might make you enjoy sports less. The Vikes swept the Packers this season. It was a fun season where we far exceeded expectations. But to each his own.

[Aggies7]

25 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Everyone can enjoy sports however they want but suggesting 14-3 and a team that goes 4-13 are comparable might make you enjoy sports less. The Vikes swept the Packers this season. It was a fun season where we far exceeded expectations. But to each his own.

I said they have nothing to show for their record, and nothing to show for having a good year healthwise which is true. 
 

You can appreciate the fun times of the season (I will eventually) while still recognizing it ultimately ended in failure.

[TheLeviathan]

29 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I said they have nothing to show for their record, and nothing to show for having a good year healthwise which is true. 
 

You can appreciate the fun times of the season (I will eventually) while still recognizing it ultimately ended in failure.

The ultimate failure is frustrating, but I try not to let that stain the fact that I had fun watching them this year.  Someday, we'll get the whole package!

[Aggies7]

7 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The ultimate failure is frustrating, but I try not to let that stain the fact that I had fun watching them this year.  Someday, we'll get the whole package!

Yeah I’m hoping to see one before my dad goes. We both have suffered together. Two idiots in Pennsylvania who chose to be fans of teams in Minnesota. Last night my mom asked why we don’t just put teams in a hat and pick a new one lol in her defense she’s been asking that for years!