VIKES @ LIONS 1/5/25

[Aggies7]

Just now, AlwaysinModeration said:

Or if Vikings lose, of course.

No if Washington and Green Bay lose. It’s round 3 in Detroit 

[Aggies7]

Is what Darnold did more shocking than the fact that KOC was wildly out coached 

[AlwaysinModeration]

It was a 1-point game with about 3 minutes left in the 3rd.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, AlwaysinModeration said:

It was a 1-point game with about 3 minutes left in the 3rd.

Vikings should have been up at least ten. You can't fold over and over against an elite team. 

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

It was a 1-point game with about 3 minutes left in the 3rd.

The lions had two turnovers and two failed 4th down conversions and still won by 22 points 

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Maybe Sam was worried about losing millions of dollars as he did tonight, I guess I can’t blame him there 

The pressure of this game got to him as soon as the lights turned on. That much is for sure. Very few have what it takes to calmly lead an offense down the field for TDs in games like this. Everyone is watching and he knew it. He melted under the heat lamp. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Is what Darnold did more shocking than the fact that KOC was wildly out coached 

People here vastly underestimate the Detroit coaches. 

[Aggies7]

10 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The pressure of this game got to him as soon as the lights turned on. That much is for sure. Very few have what it takes to calmly lead an offense down the field for TDs in games like this. Everyone is watching and he knew it. He melted under the heat lamp. 

The worst part is that he has the physical talent. You expect a guy like ponder or keenum or Joe Webb to struggle in those games. Darnold put together a top ten season and just completely fell apart mentally. There were a couple flashes of it last week but I thought overall he played well.
 

Off the top of my head I can’t think of another playoff or playoff type game where I saw a Vikings QB look so rattled for the entire game. Even cousins had 2/3 good playoff games. Maybe Tarvaris Jackson against the eagles? But again, he didn’t have the talent.

[AlwaysinModeration]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The pressure of this game got to him as soon as the lights turned on. That much is for sure. Very few have what it takes to calmly lead an offense down the field for TDs in games like this. Everyone is watching and he knew it. He melted under the heat lamp. 

He’ll better next week against a worse team and hopefully get a shot a redemption in two weeks.  Don’t count Sam out yet.

[Aggies7]

3 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

He’ll better next week against a worse team and hopefully get a shot a redemption in two weeks.  Don’t count Sam out yet.

I mean, yes the crowd was wild and loud and it was a national game. But if he performed like this in not even a playoff game….if they have the misfortune of playing in Philly, he might need a catheter 

[mnfireman]

17 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Is what Darnold did more shocking than the fact that KOC was wildly out coached 

This, all night...

[Aggies7]

18 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

People here vastly underestimate the Detroit coaches. 

The offense just made no adjustments. No screens, no draws. Not even any quick passes to the flat. They even said on the broadcast well into the 4th quarter how receivers were running downfield routes against the cover 0 all out blitz. If you’re going to be labeled an offensive genius I feel like you’re got to game plan out of that 

[Aggies7]

Look how wide open Addison was on 4th down in the 3rd quarter. This would have given the Vikings the lead. He’s looking right at him 🤦‍♂️ I was an average at best QB in high school and the quick slant is probably the easiest throw to make. Clearly this play was designed to go to Addison 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I guess I would take Darnold back next year? I am 100% confident he turns into a Jets pumpkin again if he goes anywhere else that is competitive next season.

But on to next week..

[Aggies7]

Tonight was such a gut punch to the organization in a lot of ways. To be exposed like that on a national stage. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

It’s been a good year, but it’s pretty clear that this is a good-not-great team that lucked its way into a favorable schedule.  The Vikings only played 4 playoff teams all year (6 games) and went 3-3.  The three wins came against Houston, who finished with a 0 point differential, and is widely viewed as the weakest team in the playoffs, and the Packers, who only had two wins against a playoff team—the aforementioned Texans, and the Rams in a game that neither Nucua or Kupp played in.

Even in the 9 game win streak, 8 of the victories were against non-playoff teams, and non-playoff teams to the point that only one of those 8 teams (the Falcons) was playing a meaningful game today.

That said—there’s no reason we can’t turn into the Giants or the Packers, and get hot in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl out of nowhere.  But it sure seems like Detroit provided a pretty good blueprint to beat us tonight—continue to pound away in the run game on offense, and pressure Darnold on every single snap on defense.  I feel reasonably confident about beating the Rams, because I don’t think they can do the former (although the last time we played in LA after playing Detroit, it did not go well).  However, both Philly and obviously Detroit are pretty well equipped to execute the Vikings-beating strategies, so I’m not super high on our chances to beat either, much less both in consecutive weeks.

Given that, I think we should all be cheering very hard for Washington next week, and Green Bay the next two.

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Look how wide open Addison was on 4th down in the 3rd quarter. This would have given the Vikings the lead. He’s looking right at him 🤦‍♂️ I was an average at best QB in high school and the quick slant is probably the easiest throw to make. Clearly this play was designed to go to Addison 

This right here is the entire game.  I'm sorry for those of you that think Darnold wasn't protected - you're wrong.  I'm sorry for those of you that think this was a play-calling issues - you're wrong.

This was a QB who couldn't calm his feet.  Who couldn't trust his eyes and make throws.  

He missed Hockenson open on an out route on the first drive.  He missed him wide open in the seam for a huge gain.  He missed an open Jefferson multiple times in the endzone.  Addison was open on a whip route on 3rd down the first time in the red zone. Nailor open in the end zone.  He had Nailor wide open with a DB down and managed to bungle a huge play by throwing it inaccurately and forcing Nailor out of bounds.

All game.  That's the story....our QB turned into a brick throwing pumpkin.

[AlwaysinModeration]

9 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

The lions had two turnovers and two failed 4th down conversions and still won by 22 points 

Although one of those 4th downs was with :33 seconds left and the game was already decided.

The Lions were 2 for 2 on their other 4th downs; one was TD and one was followed immediately by a TD.  On a third 4th down they totally fooled the D with a hard count, and then immediately scored the last TD.

I like the mentality - our offense is so good, I don’t ever want to voluntarily give the ball up.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

This right here is the entire game.  I'm sorry for those of you that think Darnold wasn't protected - you're wrong.  I'm sorry for those of you that think this was a play-calling issues - you're wrong.

This was a QB who couldn't calm his feet.  Who couldn't trust his eyes and make throws.  

He missed Hockenson open on an out route on the first drive.  He missed him wide open in the seam for a huge gain.  He missed an open Jefferson multiple times in the endzone.  Addison was open on a whip route on 3rd down the first time in the red zone. Nailor open in the end zone.  He had Nailor wide open with a DB down and managed to bungle a huge play by throwing it inaccurately and forcing Nailor out of bounds.

All game.  That's the story....our QB turned into a brick throwing pumpkin.

Yeah the ball should have already been out in that picture I posted above. And he’s not even ready to throw it. That’s mental stuff right there. It’s been a long time since I saw a guy actually scared on a field like that. Joe Nathan pitching to the Yankees in 2009 (I think) comes to mind 

[TheLeviathan]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yeah the ball should have already been out in that picture I posted above. And he’s not even ready to throw it. That’s mental stuff right there. It’s been a long time since I saw a guy actually scared on a field like that. Joe Nathan pitching to the Yankees in 2009 (I think) comes to mind 

That is an apt comparison.  

And thanks for the PTSD flashback.

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

That is an apt comparison.  

And thanks for the PTSD flashback.

I honestly think this is a thing that just hangs over the franchise. Everyone is always waiting for the bottom to fall out and not many franchises are like that. I don’t know how you fix it until you get a group of guys that just say enough. Like the Red Sox in ‘04. And you might be able to get by with a lineman who lacks confidence but it can’t be from your quarterback. Every season has moments where plays have to be made and the championship teams make enough of those plays. The losers don’t and that’s what we saw last night. Reminded me a bit of the saints championship game with the turnovers. We were all just waiting for another missed pass in a crucial spot.

[TheLeviathan]

Here's a helpful video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thRfUD-VBX8

How do you not make this throw?

 

He's looking at Addison.  The pick play worked perfectly.  It's an easy TD.

At the 2:12 mark....throw it towards the goalpost and not short and you have a TD.  

At 2:17 you can see how much separation JJ has and Darnold throws him a catch he has to pull a circus move to try and catch.

Then at 2:23 JJ has no one near him and we can't land that throw.

This is all freaking night.  Those are all quick throws that can beat a defense that is blitzing, so I don't want to hear the play calling stuff.  You can't playcall your way out of your QB being unable to hit open receivers.  The protection holds up 3+ seconds every time which is all you can ask against an all out blitz.

There aren't adjectives for how bad Darnold was last night.  They don't exist in our language.  

[Aggies7]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Here's a helpful video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thRfUD-VBX8

How do you not make this throw?

 

He's looking at Addison.  The pick play worked perfectly.  It's an easy TD.

At the 2:12 mark....throw it towards the goalpost and not short and you have a TD.  

At 2:17 you can see how much separation JJ has and Darnold throws him a catch he has to pull a circus move to try and catch.

Then at 2:23 JJ has no one near him and we can't land that throw.

This is all freaking night.  Those are all quick throws that can beat a defense that is blitzing, so I don't want to hear the play calling stuff.  You can't playcall your way out of your QB being unable to hit open receivers.  The protection holds up 3+ seconds every time which is all you can ask against an all out blitz.

There aren't adjectives for how bad Darnold was last night.  They don't exist in our language.  

The only thing I will say as far as the coaching is concerned. If you recognize that your quarterback has pee running down his leg, you maybe have to try something other than lining him up in shotgun 90% of the time inside the ten. Maybe run the ball or run a quick screen like they did last week against GB. Got them a touchdown on that play. KOC just kept trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole. If you can’t pickup 2-5 yards in 4 plays on the ground then I guess you don’t belong on the field. I don’t know.
 

Then again, it seems like Aaron jones has a great quarter or so then just disappears. I don’t know if was injury related or what, but man KOC abandons the run faster than anyone I’ve ever seen.

[gunnarthor]

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit. They lost on the road to the best team in football and turned the ball over twice inside the Lions 5 yard line. They left a ton of points on the field. We're 14-3 in a rebuild year. This is a good team with a good coaching staff. Detroit, Philly, Buffalo, KC, Baltimore are probably better. And the Packers went 1-5 in the NFC North. It's a good year.

1) Darnold played his worst game since the Jags game, but, worse, we didn't make the adjustments that we needed to do. Last week, Packer fans were saying that MLF is better at making halftime adjustments than KOC and, while it didn't look like that last week, Detroit's game plan got better in the second half. We had too many plays called where the QB had to hold the ball for over 3 seconds as the receivers ran 12+ yard routes. He was pressured like crazy.

2) I think getting a monster guard is our #1 priority. Brandel was pushed into Darnold a number of times. And, without a power rushing option, our red zone offense is a bit one dimensional. This isn't the first game where we've been iffy in the red zone and, for all our pieces, we should be better than we are. Hockinson was not much of a factor.

3) I thought the defense was really good last night although the score didn't reflect it. But Smith and Bynum didn't have their best games. Smith is slow and Bynum isn't a great tackler. Both got exposed a few times, especially on some long runs. Bynum's a free agent and I think bringing back Murphy is more important. 

[Vanimal46]

Darnold has to flush this game from his memory ASAP or else this 14 win season will swirl down the drain. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

The only thing I will say as far as the coaching is concerned. If you recognize that your quarterback has pee running down his leg, you maybe have to try something other than lining him up in shotgun 90% of the time inside the ten. Maybe run the ball or run a quick screen like they did last week against GB. Got them a touchdown on that play. KOC just kept trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole. If you can’t pickup 2-5 yards in 4 plays on the ground then I guess you don’t belong on the field. I don’t know.
 

Then again, it seems like Aaron jones has a great quarter or so then just disappears. I don’t know if was injury related or what, but man KOC abandons the run faster than anyone I’ve ever seen.

I was calling for that midgame and I agree he could've done more.  However, when you look back at it.....you can't screen pass your whole game.  If your QB can't hit Addison on those two images we posted, you can't do anything.  It's really that simple.

[gunnarthor]

19 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I was calling for that midgame and I agree he could've done more.  However, when you look back at it.....you can't screen pass your whole game.  If your QB can't hit Addison on those two images we posted, you can't do anything.  It's really that simple.

Yeah, but let's not remove all blame from the receivers. Jefferson dropped a touchdown and had a few other drops. In fact, we had a lot of drops all around. Hutchinson in particular played a really bad game. 

I have no idea what the all-22 cameras and what real coaches are going to see - hopefully our coaches are really good at this - but, while Darnold played badly, I didn't think he looked like a deer in headlights or anything. A few times he held the ball too long but mostly he was throwing off his back foot against the blitz. And we were able to move the ball between the 20s. 

[Vanimal46]

Our left side of the OL was very bad last night 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit. They lost on the road to the best team in football and turned the ball over twice inside the Lions 5 yard line. They left a ton of points on the field. We're 14-3 in a rebuild year. This is a good team with a good coaching staff. Detroit, Philly, Buffalo, KC, Baltimore are probably better. And the Packers went 1-5 in the NFC North. It's a good year.

1) Darnold played his worst game since the Jags game, but, worse, we didn't make the adjustments that we needed to do. Last week, Packer fans were saying that MLF is better at making halftime adjustments than KOC and, while it didn't look like that last week, Detroit's game plan got better in the second half. We had too many plays called where the QB had to hold the ball for over 3 seconds as the receivers ran 12+ yard routes. He was pressured like crazy.

2) I think getting a monster guard is our #1 priority. Brandel was pushed into Darnold a number of times. And, without a power rushing option, our red zone offense is a bit one dimensional. This isn't the first game where we've been iffy in the red zone and, for all our pieces, we should be better than we are. Hockinson was not much of a factor.

3) I thought the defense was really good last night although the score didn't reflect it. But Smith and Bynum didn't have their best games. Smith is slow and Bynum isn't a great tackler. Both got exposed a few times, especially on some long runs. Bynum's a free agent and I think bringing back Murphy is more important. 

Detroit had the worst defense in football the five weeks before this...

[Mike Sixel]

Turner, just another bad draft pick so far.