Twins Daily Exclusive Interview With Hall Of Fame Pitcher Jim Kaat

[Al from SoDak]

To celebrate the release of the documentary film Kitty To Cooperstown, Hall of Fame pitcher Jim Kaat talked to Twins Daily about his experiences in life and baseball.

Image courtesy of © Bruce Kluckhohn-Imagn Images

We want to thank Jim Kaat and Winter State Entertainment for allowing us to watch their new documentary film, Kitty to Cooperstown, and coordinating this interview with the legendary Twins pitcher.

You can find the documentary on Amazon Prime by clicking here.

Kitty to Cooperstown is a new documentary about 2022 Baseball Hall of Fame inductee Jim Kaat, now available on Amazon Prime. It includes commentary from Kaat himself, Twins teammate Tony Oliva, broadcast partner Bob Costas, teammate and fellow broadcaster Tim McCarver, Reds Manager Pete Rose, teammate Keith Hernandez, and many others. Former Twins broadcaster Dick Bremer provided the narration. 

Recently, I was fortunate to talk with Twins legend Jim Kaat about the movie and his career.

This new 2024 documentary provides a 90-minute review of Jim’s life and career. I found it enjoyable and informative. I learned a lot about his upbringing and career as a player and broadcaster. I also learned—or maybe confirmed—that he just seems to be a good person.

Winter State Entertainment from Owatonna, Minnesota, initiated and produced the documentary. Kaat explained that the project took two years of interviewing, filming, editing, etc., before completion. The idea began in the spring of 2022 after Kaat received the news of his election to the Hall of Fame, but it was before the induction, which took place later that summer. 

UPBRINGING AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT
James Lee Kaat was born November 7, 1938, in Zeeland, Michigan. He grew up in a family with four children. His next closest sibling was nine years older. 

Jim was attracted to sports at an early age, playing baseball and basketball as a child. He also really enjoyed the history of baseball. Early in the documentary, Kaat talks about the Base Ball Guides his dad collected from the early 1900s. Jim studied those books, which gave him an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the game's history. This knowledge must have contributed to his successful post-playing career as a baseball analyst. Broadcasting games allowed Kaat to showcase his knowledge of baseball and its history while covering the game he loved.

One of the documentary's highlights is Jim’s father – known to locals as John – and his parenting skills. Jim shared a story about a youth basketball game where he had maybe double the points he would usually score. The first thing his dad did after the game was talk about how many great passes Jim’s teammate had thrown Jim’s way. The father was instilling a lesson to give credit to your teammates in a team game; nobody can do it all themselves. That’s a great lesson for any kid to hear.

There are other anecdotes about Jim’s father throughout the biopic. Jim’s dad meant a lot to him, and he must have mentioned him frequently to friends and teammates. Tim McCarver mentioned that he had never met Jim’s father but wished he had. Later in the film, there is a quote from Mike Schmidt, “All of the personality traits he (Jim) has, I wish I had them all.” What a compliment! I’m sure many of those personality traits are due to Jim’s upbringing. 

Jim explained that his mother was also vital to his upbringing and development. Jim made a point to explain to me:

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 “I had the perfect parents for an athlete. They never let me get too big, never let me think too much of himself, never made me the center of attention.”

Kaat asserts that his mother only saw him pitch once, in the second game of the 1965 World Series. She never went to any of his games growing up. His father often attended those youth games, but it was always far down the line, far away from the action. Neither parent made a big deal of their son’s athletic ability. 

Back to baseball and Jim’s upbringing, Kaat finishes the documentary with a childhood memory of going to a Tigers game, his first professional game, when he was seven and a half years old. He was struck first by the green of the outfield walls, the green of the grass, and just the overall grandeur of the ballpark. He was seven years old, and it made a deep impression. From that day forward, he told people he would be a baseball player.

After high school, Jim went five miles to Holland, Michigan, and Hope College where the left-handed pitcher joined the baseball team. He played a single season and gave up one single run all season. Around this point, Jim had grown from five-foot-ten to six-four-four, and professional scouts started to notice him.

SIGNING AND MINOR LEAGUES
After that first year in college, Jim was offered contracts from multiple major league teams. His largest offer of $25,000 was from the White Sox. Jim’s dad convinced him to decline that offer. Kaat told me that the offer was about five times what the elder Kaat received in annual pay. The Kaats declined the offer because it would have triggered the bonus baby rule in MLB at that time, whereby any player signed for a contract over $4,000 would have to be immediately placed on the active roster of the major league team for two full seasons. The problem is many of those players were too young and inexperienced to be able to jump right into MLB and succeed. At his dad’s urging, Kaat declined the offer and took Washington’s offer of $4,000, which allowed him to be assigned to the minor leagues. Kaat would spend 1957 to 1959 in the minor leagues. I am amazed at the father’s foresight to decline the White Sox offer. His ability to see the bigger picture was probably crucial to Jim’s development into a successful MLB pitcher.

Conversely, Kaat’s future teammate, Harmon Killebrew, signed for an amount that triggered the rule. As a result, Harmon was immediately placed on Washington’s rosters, and for those two initial years (1954-55), he garnered only 104 plate appearances in 47 games. In two years! That cannot have been good for Killebrew’s development, but those were the rules. Then, in 1956-58, Killebrew played a majority of each season in the minor leagues because he was past the two-year requirement. Finally, in 1959, Harmon’s first complete MLB season where he was fully utilized, he hit 42 home runs, and that was the start of the career we all know. I asked Jim if he and Harmon ever talked about the bonus baby rule and signing and what effect they think it had on each of their careers. Kaat reported that signing for the lesser amount was best for him. Too many of the other guys went bust. Thankfully for Killebrew and Twins fans, Harmon eventually made it. 

THE MINNESOTA TWINS
As we all know, Kaat had a long and successful career with the Twins, and I will not rehash it all here. It’s all there in the documentary. I did ask Kaat about a few years I thought were noteworthy. 

Of course, Kitty to Cooperstown covers the 1965 World Series and Kaat’s three showdowns against Sandy Koufax. I asked Kaat if there was anything the Twins could have done differently to win the 1965 series. Kaat speculated:

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“Maybe if we had more singles hitters, maybe we could have done more offensively.”

I think it’s probable that they simply ran into tremendous pitching. The Twins scored only two runs in their four losses. Sandy Koufax shut them out twice and won World Series MVP honors. Sometimes, the other team just performs better. 

In 1967, the Twins were in a heated pennant race with the Red Sox and Tigers. Kaat started the second to last game in Boston. He had given up no runs into the third inning. However, he felt something in his elbow and had to come out of the game. Kaat said:

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“It was the Tommy John injury before the Tommy John surgery was invented.”

It was a tear of the ulnar collateral ligament. In today’s day, he would have had the Tommy John surgery immediately and missed at least a year of action. In 1967, the prescribed treatment was to rest all winter and then go out and pitch in 1968. Kaat mentioned:

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“I had to learn to pitch a different way. It was about three to four years before I was back to normal.”

Because of Kaat’s injury, the Twins lost that penultimate game, the next day’s season finale, thereby losing the American League by one game. Bruce Cornblatt is an MLB Network producer and, in 1967, was a young Red Sox fan. He was interviewed for the documentary. Cornblatt shared a story Kaat had relayed to Cornblatt when they first met about Jim playing golf with Red Sox great Carl Yastrzemski many years later. Yaz said to Kaat the Sox never would have scored in that 1967 game if Kaat’s elbow injury didn’t happen. He was pitching that well. 

In August of 1973, the Twins waived Kaat, and the Chicago White Sox claimed him. I asked him what happened there. Was that an example of Twins owner Calvin Griffith’s penny-pinching? Kaat responded: 

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“Calvin was tough to get a dollar out of. But I hadn’t been performing very well, and Calvin simply thought I was done. Keep in mind I was 34 at that time, getting older for a ballplayer. But I thought I was far from done.”

The White Sox not only picked him up but immediately gave him a raise for the following season. 

LATER CAREER
After leaving the Twins, Kaat bounced around a little. As mentioned, he played for the White Sox. From there, he went to the Phillies. He reports in the documentary that those were some of his favorite years of his career. The team was good and improving; the players were tight with each other, and all got along. Unfortunately for Kaat, he was sold to the Yankees in 1979, missing the Phillies’ 1980 World Series Championship. Then he was sold to the Cardinals during the 1980 season, missing the Yankees’ 1981 World Series appearance. It appeared increasingly probable that Kaat would never win a World Series despite his illustrious career. That changed with the 1982 Cardinals.

When asked about finally winning a World Series in 1982 with St. Louis, Kaat relayed to me two pieces of trivia. I think he seems proud of both, as they illustrate his perseverance, determination, and persistence. He holds the record for the longest period between World Series appearances, 17 years between 1965 and 1982. In addition, the 24 seasons he played before winning a championship is also a record for any of the four major sports in North America. I can’t imagine that record ever being broken. 

From the high to the low. Baseball-Reference reports that Kaat was released by the Cardinals on July 6, 1983, less than a year after the World Series victory. That was his 25^th season. He was 44 years old. Kaat said he wanted to pitch until he was 50. It’s easy to see he was one of those players who would have to have the jersey ripped off their back rather than voluntarily retire. Some guys just love the game more.

Bob Costas talked about the six degrees of Jim Kaat. Within six acquaintances, Costas believes you can connect Kaat to anyone in MLB history. I asked Kaat how many teammates he had. He didn’t know for sure, but Kaat reported Costas thought the number was around 580. I asked Kaat about his best or favorite teammate. He said:

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“There were too many to mention, but Harmon, Tony, and Rod of course. Then there’s Phil Roof, Dick Allen, Mike Schmidt, Graig Nettles, Goose Gossage, and there are others.”

Kaat seems like a real people person who probably has a good relationship with almost everyone, whether they were teammates or people outside the game. Heck, he gave me 45 minutes of his time and couldn’t have been more pleasant!

POST-PLAYING CAREER
After his playing career, Cincinnati Reds manager Pete Rose hired Kaat as pitching coach. Kaat served in that capacity in 1984 and 1985 but turned quickly to television broadcasting. Dick Bremer mentioned Kaat as a big baseball history nut and that Kaat himself was a part of baseball history. When asked, Kaat said he turned to broadcasting because it required far fewer hours, and because of his interest in baseball history, probably going back to his father’s almanacs, he had tremendous historical recall of baseball events that he could interject into the conversation. I think Kaat is simply a natural storyteller and better suited for the television booth. He did that job for various teams and media outlets from 1986 until recently.

BASEBALL TODAY
Jim and I talked briefly about today’s game. It is so different than when Jim pitched. The pitchers pitch so many fewer innings. I mentioned, and he agreed there’s little accountability. When a pitcher gets in trouble, teams rarely allow the pitcher to try to work out of the jam. Kaat stated the obvious, that it’s a different game now, speculating:

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“There’s too much science in the game now, and perhaps the game has lost a little of its soul.”

Kaat pitched so many innings in his day—totals we simply don’t see today. Look at the 1971 statistics. Kaat, Bert Blyleven, and Jim Perry all threw 260 innings or more, and the team allowed fewer runs than today. The MLB leader for innings pitched in 2024 had 208.2 innings, and only four pitchers in all of Major League Baseball threw more than 200 innings. 

HALL OF FAMER
Bob Costas talked about Kaat’s and Oliva’s careers being opposite trajectories. Oliva came out of the gate very strong on a definite Hall of Fame track for his first eight years before injury hit. Kaat’s career may be without the peaks of Oliva, but it is very steady, very good, and very long. I think it’s almost humorous that after such a long time with such different careers, the one-time teammates were each selected to the Hall of Fame the same year. This might be a case where the tortoise and the hare made it to the finish line simultaneously. 

I asked Kaat what he thinks of the current finalists for this year’s Classic Baseball Era Committee vote, which is scheduled to be announced December 8, 2024, for the class of 2025. This committee was the one that elected Kaat. Kaat responded immediately:

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“Tommy John is deserving of the Hall of Fame. He should have gone in ahead of me. His numbers are better than mine.”

Kaat said the others he would choose are contemporaries, Steve Garvey and Dick Allen.

Many former teammates in Kitty to Cooperstown say wonderful things about Kaat. Carew, Schmidt, McCarver, and Hernandez all said they thought the world of him. Kaat is grateful and validated by those types of comments. He also deflects credit and spreads it to teammates and coaches. He did that during his career, his Cooperstown induction speech, and his Twins jersey retirement. I bet the attitude goes back to his parents.

REVIEW AND WRAP
Kaat said when he broadcasted a game, he imagined being in a box seat behind the plate with a first-time fan, a lukewarm fan, and an avid fan. He said this thought process was the best way to analyze and comment on the game, providing a little something for everyone. That can also be said for the documentary on his life, Kitty to Cooperstown. If you know little or much about Kaat, I think you will learn something and increase your appreciation of his career and commitment to baseball. If you are interested in Jim Kaat, Twins history, or baseball history, please look at this documentary. It’s available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime. I enjoyed it immensely. Check it out.

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[Richie the Rally Goat]

I have it on my Prime list! Great write-up

[Blyleven2011]

Kitty had an amazing career  and is a wonderful human being , very approachable just like Harmon  , Rod and Tony too ...

Today's game and players are alot different ...

I remember when Calvin released him , I was maybe 10 , I cried but followed his whole career with joy ...

Thanks kitty for the memories  ...

I definitely will watch the documentary  , but have to go back to work  now  ...

[Rod Carews Birthday]

Great article!  I'm excited to go watch the documentary. 

Are there any other documentaries out there about the Twins or their players over the years? 

I have watched the Harmon Killebrew on David Letterman episode a couple of times.  It's awesome as well. 

[CRF]

Always liked Kitty. Great pitcher, and seems like a great guy by all accounts. Enjoyed him as a broadcaster too. 

[Doctor Gast]

Fascinating article, Al. Kitty is a very knowledgeable & wise baseball guy. I like most his statements on the '65 team could have done better with more single-hitting guys (I assume more clutch hitting & less strike-outs) & how there too much science that removes the soul of the game. IMO the most important part of the game is heart (the love, knowledge & feel for the game) which drives the analytical part. Focus on the analytical with bad philosophy is bad baseball. He's always pleasant & humble which is refreshing. All that made for a great broadcaster.

[GNXman]

As a lefty myself, Kaat was one of my heroes growing up. I was hearbroken when Kaat came out of the game against Boston in 1967. The Twins ended up losing that game and the next to lose the pennant to the Red Sox. The Twins had one of their best teams ever that year and the 13 year old me mourned the entire winter. If you look up Kaats stats for 1967, he won six games.... in September! no wonder his arm blew out at seasons end! Yet he came back and had even more success over the ensuing years. Still one of my heroes today....

[JD-TWINS]

Kaat was a childhood favorite.

What a great perspective and voice of the game as a color commentator!! Jim Kaat with Bob Costas is an awfully entertaining broadcast!

The 1st Championship after 24 years into his career is a big time achievement and sweet Trivia Question……..17 years between World Series appearances is really something as well.

I believe he had near 17 gold gloves through his career.

Another chunk of trivia is, I believe he’s a 5 handicap or less in golf, from both left and right sides!

Look forward to viewing the documentary.

[Al from SoDak]

9 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Kitty had an amazing career  and is a wonderful human being , very approachable just like Harmon  , Rod and Tony too ...

Today's game and players are alot different ...

I remember when Calvin released him , I was maybe 10 , I cried but followed his whole career with joy ...

Thanks kitty for the memories  ...

I definitely will watch the documentary  , but have to go back to work  now  ...

Carew said in the documentary, "It's doesn't cost anything to be nice." Harmon taught that to Carew, Oliva, and Kaat, and probably others.

[JD-TWINS]

Bought the documentary and watched on Prime this a.m. - best $13 I’ve spent in a long time!

Essentially, a revered guy all around baseball - Tim McCarver, Mike Schmidt, Rod Carew, Bob Costas & Pete Rose all had glowing things to say about Kitty. John Stuper (game 6 winner in ‘82 Series), Keith Hernandez, & Ozzie Smith were all ‘82 Teammates and were equally, if not more, affected by Kaat’s personality and guidance as young players.

Describes meeting Sandy Koufax prior to Game 2 of ‘65 Series and seeing him pitch for the first time ever, that day. Faced him 3 times in the Series and they became friends over the following decades.

Really well done!

[IndianaTwin]

With his knowledge and history in the game, he seems like a no-brainer to be on one (or more) of the Hall of Fame Era Committees.