The Twins Faced a No-Win Situation with Byron Buxton’s Injury Plan

[ladrossetwin]

It is frustrating Buxton is back on IL, but it is his hamstring not his knee, there are many knee conditions that might linger that do not require knee replacement surgery. His recent performance was on the upswing and ultimately he is needed if twins have any hope of a playoff run. I trust the training staff/doctors wouldn't have him out there if he was doing long term damage to his knee

[HokieRif]

In hindsight the team should have put Buxton on the shelf early this season when it was apparent that whatever was bothering him was hampering performance at the plate. I don’t fault the team’s decision to give DH a try, but when that started to yield limited results over long stretches they should have called it a lost season. It was pointed out earlier in the thread that the team seems to be playing better without him, and at least since the all-star break I would have to agree with that assessment.

[shabbos1]

3 hours ago, davidborton said:

The right knee is probably bone on bone or a minimal amount of meniscus left in there. Grab a bat, take your normal swing, and imagine pushing off with Buxton's right knee as you swing.

It's the knee, not the head. The man is playing with pain.

It's been reported in the past he's dealing with patellar tendinitis.  There are a multitude of other knee conditions outside of cartilage tears and ligament injuries.  That's not to say he might be dealing with something else in addition to his tendinitis, but a 29 year old athlete is highly unlikely to be so arthritic that his meniscus is completely gone. 

https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/offseason-knee-surgery-on-the-table-for-byron-buxton-knee-patellar-tendonitis/

https://www.startribune.com/byron-buxtons-knee-surgery-is-a-long-time-coming/600209988/

[ewen21]

17 hours ago, Tibs said:

There's no way to answer this without knowing the situation with his knee. All we've heard is it is a chronic issue.

If his knee can be fixed, then fix it. They should take whatever time is required to do that.

This veneer of mystery as to what’s up is important to note.  Talk of the knee didn’t start until he went into a slump.  Even as he entered this slump he was stealing bases and doing his thing.  Remember, DH thing was a way to keep him healthy.  He stole a bunch of bases in May and there was talk about CF as the slump progressed.  Once that talk got to be too much Rocco spouted off saying “he can’t play CF”  Then talk about the knee intensified.  Patterns are sometimes hard to fathom, but in the case of Buxton when he slumps usually he goes on the injured list.

It almost feels to me like the knee isn’t the issue as much as it his between his ears.  His uncanny lack of consistency and deep deep slumps are problematic.  When he goes into these deep valleys the speculation starts  The assumption becomes: he must have some physical ailment.  What if that isn’t the case?  Since there is nothing concrete from Buxton himself or the doctors it leaves the door open for speculation and that’s on him.  The 10 day for the hammy is genuine, but I’m not so sure about the knee.  Rocco is the type of manager who’d run cover for his guy.  Falvey and Levine openly admitted in early 2019 that they needed to repair the relationship.  Rather than actually get to the bottom of this Buxton and the Twins just won’t get specific and leaves room for an excuse.  I hate to say it, but that might be what’s happening here.  Would not surprise me

I have officially become suspicious.  It is highly possible the Twins are running cover and Buxton is going through something personally.  

[Dave Borton]

53 minutes ago, shabbos1 said:

It's been reported in the past he's dealing with patellar tendinitis. 

I have read that in the past. The Twins have no responsibility to level with those of us who are curious. It is their business.

I, however, remain a bit skeptical when 6-8 wks is normal recovery from patellar tendinitis. He had 7 months off from time of surgery to ST.

55 minutes ago, shabbos1 said:

There are a multitude of other knee conditions outside of cartilage tears and ligament injuries

Absolutely.

56 minutes ago, shabbos1 said:

but a 29 year old athlete is highly unlikely to be so arthritic that his meniscus is completely gone. 

His skeletal/muscular system is unique unto himself.

The Natl Institute of health suggests that young athletes do indeed have meniscus issues:

"Isolated meniscus tears are relatively common in young athletes and cause significant loss of time from athletic pursuits with meniscus repair causing greater loss than debridement. Lateral meniscus tears are more prevalent in this population." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4901664/

Do I know? Of course not. Do I believe something larger than pat. tend. is at play. Yes.

We will know in time. Till then, we all speculate.
 

[JD-TWINS]

It’s not being a DH - Right!! His head was maybe messed up with an impending birth??? He went for 7 hits in 4 games back after the Paternity Leave/birth of child - then hamstring. Can’t get a break!!

Having lunch and watching MLB 50 top plays of the month of July. 3 of the Top 25 catches were against Buxton, All in the Baltimore series. Robbed of double, triple, & single……..diving catch - catch jumping off the wall - snagged a line drive respectively. He’s not getting breaks and then other times he’s just not executing - bad combination!

Not mentally soft because he’s not playing CF.

[shabbos1]

10 minutes ago, davidborton said:

 

The Natl Institute of health suggests that young athletes do indeed have meniscus issues:

"Isolated meniscus tears are relatively common in young athletes and cause significant loss of time from athletic pursuits with meniscus repair causing greater loss than debridement. Lateral meniscus tears are more prevalent in this population." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4901664/

Do I know? Of course not. Do I believe something larger than pat. tend. is at play. Yes.

We will know in time. Till then, we all speculate.
 

The only thing I'll add is that meniscal tears in young athletes are of course very common, but they're completely different than the "bone-on-bone" arthritis and knee replacement references people are making.  Also, tendinitis can be a chronic issue.  

[JesusisLord7]

We passed on CF Corbin Carrol in the 2019 draft. He was the obvious pick and the highest rated pick on the board and I'm watching the draft at the time thinking oh wow we are going to land Carrol. Instead the Twins reached for Keoni Cavaco who was projected to go in the 2nd round. Corbin Carrol is hitting .276 average on Diamondbacks with .357 OBP with 21 HR's and 36 stolen basis. Meanwhile Cavaco is at high A Cedar Rapids hitting .176. That was such a reach. I think there needs to be some accountability. We also passed on Mike Trout for Kyle Gibson (even though Trout's relative played for Twins) and picked Kohl Stewart over Aaron Judge. I think the last two drafts have been good but we miss so bad sometimes. 

[gman]

I highly suspect he has had his knees, hips, ankles, feet and any other lower body part that could be part of the problem thoroughly examined by multiple high level professionals. That's why he is not playing the field. They probably told him long ago not to be playing. period.

[Dave Borton]

2 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

then I would check with the insurance company to see if they will pay the salary

Now, that one I will take to the bank. Bet there is no rider. No insurance company would touch that policy to ensure his salary of $100MM with his history of injuries.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, JesusisLord7 said:

We passed on CF Corbin Carrol in the 2019 draft. He was the obvious pick and the highest rated pick on the board and I'm watching the draft at the time thinking oh wow we are going to land Carrol. Instead the Twins reached for Keoni Cavaco who was projected to go in the 2nd round. Corbin Carrol is hitting .276 average on Diamondbacks with .357 OBP with 21 HR's and 36 stolen basis. Meanwhile Cavaco is at high A Cedar Rapids hitting .176. That was such a reach. I think there needs to be some accountability. We also passed on Mike Trout for Kyle Gibson (even though Trout's relative played for Twins) and picked Kohl Stewart over Aaron Judge. I think the last two drafts have been good but we miss so bad sometimes. 

I was watching thinking the same exact thing.  Could not believe they passed on Carroll who had 70 grade speed and a 60 hit tool.  I have been bitching about it for 4 years.

[insagt1]

its tough to watch a can't miss multi-talented athlete be unable to play. Bobby Orr's career was cut so short because of his knees, that couldn't be fixed to allow him to be Bobby Orr. Buxton may be sliding down that same hill. Maybe he's just not fixable. The number and variety of his injuries sure seems to bear that out.

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I was watching thinking the same exact thing.  Could not believe they passed on Carroll who had 70 grade speed and a 60 hit tool.  I have been bitching about it for 4 years.

Those sicko baseball fans (like myself)  who actually know and follow many of the top twenty-five or so players were pretty distraught when the Twins chose Cavaco when Carroll was just sitting there waiting for his name to be called. It was so disappointing and remains an enigma.

Still, one cannot just suggest that the Twins should have drafted this guy or that guy who was rated much lower but became a successful MLB player. Even the Angels chose another guy ahead of Mike Trout. The draft is a crap shoot many times. We can be relieved that the Twins stuck to the consensus by drafting Walker Jenkins at #5 this year and did not succumb to a college player.

[MABB1959]

19 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I am in alignment with several others... have the knee thoroughly checked and get second and third opinions.  If it is NOT chronic and can be repaired, DO IT NOW!  If it is chronic and will NOT IMPROVE with surgery, then I would check with the insurance company to see if they will pay the salary and if so request that he retire to get those $ off the books while making him whole financially.  If the insurance will not cover this, then it is fully between the Twins and Buxton.  Possibly some sort to buyout can be established to allow him to retire and allow the team to move forward.  I do not think that they can go to the end of his contract with him as the DH only.

If he must be the DH only and will not retire, then the Twins should do what they can to make him a contact hitter reducing the impact that trying to pull everything and hit homers does to his right (anchor) knee.  Have him hit the other way and go for singles and doubles and forgo the HR swing.

Either way, this is a difficult situation given his performance and the number of years remaining on his contract.

You would think they have the best of the best medical professionals available to them and have had many opinions. I was under the impression that they did surgery and it did not take  His choice seems to be figuring out how to play with pain and if he can be even half as good it would be a win. Maybe it will strengthen by playing?  Otherwise sadly it is time to retire.  Pretty sure there is some type of insurance, if not he should be financially set for life and can be like Mauer and spend quality time with his kids.  There are many other careers available in baseball.  I am 100% sure that he feels worse than all of us put together about how his playing time hurts this team.  Here is hoping for the best for Bryon.  

[MABB1959]

16 hours ago, davidborton said:

Now, that one I will take to the bank. Bet there is no rider. No insurance company would touch that policy to ensure his salary of $100MM with his history of injuries.

Hopefully they took it out at the very beginning of his career.