What's wrong with Jose Miranda? How long is his leash?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

20 hours ago, CRF said:

I'm sure this is an over simplification, but he needs to look at some video of his swing. A lot of the time, he looks like he's swinging an ax out there, instead of a level on plane swing. It's like he's trying to chop down on the pitch, not square it up. He's never going to win a gold glove at 3rd, but it does kind of look like his arm/shoulder may still be bothering him. 

Good catch, maybe there is somthing to this. There are now axe handle baseball bats, bats with asymmetric handles, that MLBers are using. I remember a lot of press in 2016 about Kurt Suzuki switching to one, and his numbers improved immediately. Won't help you to lay off a bad pitch out of the zone, however.

Also, give the guy a day off once in a while ferpetessake 

[ashbury]

6 hours ago, davidborton said:

Ah, but where to put him to get those reps?

Brutal at 3B (career .950 IMSM). Farmer returning. Lewis right behind him. Kirilloff on 1B. Buxton tying up DH.

We had this problem under Terry Ryan and I had hoped we were past this.  Too many players on the roster with the end of their evaluation reading, "and if all else fails, he can DH."  There are only so many plate appearances for a DH during a season, whereas you need guys who can competently field.

[Squirrel]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

We had this problem under Terry Ryan and I had hoped we were past this.  Too many players on the roster with the end of their evaluation reading, "and if all else fails, he can DH."  There are only so many plate appearances for a DH during a season, whereas you need guys who can competently field.

And yet our focus is 'but the offense'. While I think the offense is mighty important and has been super frustrating, I hear arguments for one player over another based solely on their offense. And this is where it gets us, imo. But, I still have hopes that Miranda isn't THIS bad. While his defense has always been the weaker part of his game, it has been simply awful lately. And his offense does not compensate enough and don't know if it could. I really advocate a resent in AAA and then re-evaluate. If Lewis comes on as the better fielder, which he will, Miranda may be out of a position, which I thought he was a couple years ago.

[The_Phantom]

It’s amazing how many people slaughtered me (especially on Reddit) for saying it’s crazy to trade Urshela for peanuts with the justification that Miranda is ready to go. You can never assume a second year is going to replicate a decent first year, and his defense was always bad 

[USAFChief]

Today has to be the final straw, no? If Farmer is ready?

[KirbyDome89]

Count me amongst those not exactly excited about the idea of Kyle Farmer playing 3B every day. I get it, kind of, but he barely posted more than 1 fWAR in 145 games last year, and he wasn't off to a particularly great start this season despite being platooned in more favorable matchups. His defense at the corner maybe raises the floor a little, but he's not going to step onto the diamond and make the Twins a better team. SSS yada yada, and if you told me he holds down 3B with average-slightly below average play for 6 weeks until Lee is called up, ok I guess, but I'd still give Miranda a bit more time facing major league pitching. 

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Today has to be the final straw, no? If Farmer is ready?

Farmer is ready.

[stringer bell]

There are several choices with what to do with Miranda: 1) Let him work through it as the regular third baseman. 2) Reduce his workload by using Farmer as the alternate 3b, play him some at first and DH. 3) Option him to the minors or 4) place him on the Injured List, if there is still some problem with his right shoulder. 

Right now, playing Miranda essentially every day isn't working and the replacements give us no reason to be optimistic for an offensive surge. Kyle Farmer is a decent defender and very good against left handed pitching. Willi Castro is a utility player, with a lifetime 87 OPS+. Because of this, I think you keep Miranda on the team, for now, unless he is bothered by an injury. If there is an injury concern, I would hope the Twins give him ample time to heal up and then rehab to find his stroke.

Miranda seems to be pressing mightily. He is jumping at pitches early in the count and making a lot of weak contact. He's not hitting line drives much and hitting plenty of grounders, leading to a lot of double plays. He has been poor in the field, both handling grounders and throwing. It is time for some sort of reset. If there was a better option in the wings, it could be a demotion, but I think he might lose some playing time and get some first base time. If I'm GM, I DFA Donovan Solano tomorrow.

[Riverbrian]

If Miranda doesn't stop chasing. His defense won't buy him time to work through it and his teammates are not hitting well enough to cover for his chasing.

If he doesn't stop chasing he will play himself to AAA regardless if Lewis or Lee are ready.

You can't play every day what he is giving us every day.  

I still believe in him but... this team is in contention. We are 128 AB's into his season. This is beyond a slump.  

Chasing that first pitch with the bases loaded after a hit batter followed by two walks was my final straw. 

I'm ready. 

[Craig Arko]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Farmer is ready.

Apparently Farmer has one final dental procedure on Monday, and based on that it will be either Tuesday or Wednesday he’s activated.

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Count me amongst those not exactly excited about the idea of Kyle Farmer playing 3B every day. I get it, kind of, but he barely posted more than 1 fWAR in 145 games last year, and he wasn't off to a particularly great start this season despite being platooned in more favorable matchups. His defense at the corner maybe raises the floor a little, but he's not going to step onto the diamond and make the Twins a better team. SSS yada yada, and if you told me he holds down 3B with average-slightly below average play for 6 weeks until Lee is called up, ok I guess, but I'd still give Miranda a bit more time facing major league pitching. 

But it would still be better than what we are seeing.  When its not professional at bats a solid veteran is an enticing option.

What's the chances they give Gallo a shot at 3rd, maybe in something of a platoon with Farmer?  I'm not usually one to throw someone into a spot like that but he has played there passably before and is apparently a magical baseball unicorn athlete.  Once or twice a week would be great flexibility. 

I ask as I'm wondering it the Farmer roster move is direct for Miranda, maybe an IL stint for the shoulder.  It might be the cleanest and the same methodology as AK/Larnach.

[mrtwinsfan]

23 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

He would be passable at 3rd if he was hitting a bunch. He's going to have issues staying there when both Lewis and Lee could be better on both sides of the ball.

Speaking of Cuddyer, what's the chance Miranda could play a functional left field? A young RH outfield bat fits this roster much better.

Speaking of Cuddyer, what's the chance Miranda could play a functional left field? A young RH outfield bat fits this roster much better.,  Great idea ,    its the weakest part ,  Ill call Rocco  see what he thinks,

[stringer bell]

17 minutes ago, mrtwinsfan said:

Speaking of Cuddyer, what's the chance Miranda could play a functional left field? A young RH outfield bat fits this roster much better.,  Great idea ,    its the weakest part ,  Ill call Rocco  see what he thinks,

The Saints tried Miranda in left for a game or two IIRC. From what I recall it did not go well. 

[Jocko87]

40 minutes ago, mrtwinsfan said:

Speaking of Cuddyer, what's the chance Miranda could play a functional left field? A young RH outfield bat fits this roster much better.,  Great idea ,    its the weakest part ,  Ill call Rocco  see what he thinks,

Glad you could help. 

[Jocko87]

21 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

The Saints tried Miranda in left for a game or two IIRC. From what I recall it did not go well. 

Any worse than 1B or 3B?  Worse than Garlick?  Serious question.  It was 3 games, 25 innings 5 for 5 on chances but I don't have video.  He also has almost 1700 innings in the middle infield that were predictably not stellar.  I'm not expecting him to be at either the Miguel Sano or Robin Yount ends of the spectrum but just average would be fabulous considering his skills and fitting the roster construction. 

For the record I don't think he's healthy.  Missing Farmer and Solanos glove being worse has been a real strain.  He should not be leading the team in plate appearances.  It's pretty obvious he needs some days off and maybe he has played himself into a longer break.  Being slightly injured but still a better option than Solano or Castro would explain a lot. 

I also don't think he has a long term home at 3rd with Lewis and Lee on the horizon.  The fit as a LF/1B/DH RH platoonish bat is actually very tantalizing. 

[William K Johnson]

I stated many times during the off-season that the trade of Urshela was a mistake.   Miranda has no defensive abilities at all.    And now, with his inability to hit, he is no asset to this team.    Farmer goes to third once he is healthy and stays there until Lewis is ready.    Lewis stays there until Lee is ready, then him and Lee man second and third.

[Doctor Wu]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:53 AM, stringer bell said:

Or to stay at third base ( and go back a few more years) Danny Valencia. 

Or even further back, albeit with less hoopla, Terry Jorgensen.

[Doctor Wu]

1 hour ago, William K Johnson said:

I stated many times during the off-season that the trade of Urshela was a mistake.   Miranda has no defensive abilities at all.    And now, with his inability to hit, he is no asset to this team.    Farmer goes to third once he is healthy and stays there until Lewis is ready.    Lewis stays there until Lee is ready, then him and Lee man second and third.

I'm not sure the trade was so much of a mistake, seeing as how the Twins wanted to give Miranda more playing time, plus guys like Lewis and Lee are waiting in the wings. But I agree that Urshela is missed. It would be nice to have his bat in the lineup this year!

[chpettit19]

16 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Count me amongst those not exactly excited about the idea of Kyle Farmer playing 3B every day. I get it, kind of, but he barely posted more than 1 fWAR in 145 games last year, and he wasn't off to a particularly great start this season despite being platooned in more favorable matchups. His defense at the corner maybe raises the floor a little, but he's not going to step onto the diamond and make the Twins a better team. SSS yada yada, and if you told me he holds down 3B with average-slightly below average play for 6 weeks until Lee is called up, ok I guess, but I'd still give Miranda a bit more time facing major league pitching. 

I'm hoping he's serviceable while getting the majority of the playing time for the rest of May, and Lewis takes the job on June 1 when his rehab assignment is done, if Miranda hasn't figured it out. Give Miranda the Padres series off and see what Farmer can do. Give Miranda the first game against the Cubs, and if he's still swinging at first pitches 6 inches inside after the pitcher hit a guy, and walked 2 guys, put him back on the bench for a week.

I'm generally against talking about player's hearts, mental status/focus, etc. because it's stuff we simply can't know, but Miranda certainly looks like he's in his own head, and really forcing things right now. There's half a dozen cuts to the dugout a game where he's on the ipad watching video it feels like. I think the kid is working, but he looks like a guy who's thinking about every ball hit to him, and trying to do too much at the plate. I think he needs a few days off to just relax, and get his approach back. It can't be fun for him right now. Let the kid come back up for air for a series. It's tough to watch him drown right before our eyes.

[William K Johnson]

12 hours ago, mrtwinsfan said:

Speaking of Cuddyer, what's the chance Miranda could play a functional left field? A young RH outfield bat fits this roster much better.,  Great idea ,    its the weakest part ,  Ill call Rocco  see what he thinks,

Comparing Miranda to Cuddyer is like comparing me to Harmon Killebrew

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, William K Johnson said:

Comparing Miranda to Cuddyer is like comparing me to Harmon Killebrew

Is that because Miranda has been lightyears better than Cuddyer at this point of their careers?

[stringer bell]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Is that because Miranda has been lightyears better than Cuddyer at this point of their careers?

I want to preface my comment by saying that Michael Cuddyer is my all-time favorite Twin. I think Miranda and Cuddyer is an interesting comparison. Cuddy was being groomed (when that wasn't a bad word) to be a major league third baseman in the minors. He came to the Twins when they were on the upswing and finding playing time was tough despite a good bat. Cuddy finally broke through at age 27 as a right fielder, a position he played sparingly in the minors. I never thought right field was Cuddyer's best position, but that is where he played the bulk of his time with the Twins. 

Miranda also came up as a third baseman. Out of necessity, he played a lot of first base his rookie year and after a slow start, he had a good year at the plate. Like Cuddyer, I don't think he is a long-term answer at third base and despite his good rookie season at an age where Cuddyer was fighting for playing time, I don't know if I consider him established as a hitter. He is going to have to be a considerably above-average hitter to get regular at-bats in the major leagues IMHO.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

24 minutes ago, William K Johnson said:

Comparing Miranda to Cuddyer is like comparing me to Harmon Killebrew

You are comparing total careers.  Cuddyer had a 15 year career that you are comparing to a 1 1/4 year career.   MIranda was an OPS+ of 114 in his age 24 season.  Cuddyer was an OPS+ of 97 in his (in only a small number of plate appearances), and didn't exceed 100 until his age 27 season, when he reached his Twins high of 124. 

Neither of them would or will be confused with Harmon Killebrew. 

Miranda needs a break, maybe temporarily while staying at the MLB level but more likely longer in St. Paul. Time for a reset. 

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I want to preface my comment by saying that Michael Cuddyer is my all-time favorite Twin. I think Miranda and Cuddyer is an interesting comparison. Cuddy was being groomed (when that wasn't a bad word) to be a major league third baseman in the minors. He came to the Twins when they were on the upswing and finding playing time was tough despite a good bat. Cuddy finally broke through at age 27 as a right fielder, a position he played sparingly in the minors. I never thought right field was Cuddyer's best position, but that is where he played the bulk of his time with the Twins. 

Miranda also came up as a third baseman. Out of necessity, he played a lot of first base his rookie year and after a slow start, he had a good year at the plate. Like Cuddyer, I don't think he is a long-term answer at third base and despite his good rookie season at an age where Cuddyer was fighting for playing time, I don't know if I consider him established as a hitter. He is going to have to be a considerably above-average hitter to get regular at-bats in the major leagues IMHO.

Miranda's going to have an interesting career to follow. I think he has tremendous bat to ball skills, but he doesn't have great power. Not bad power, but not the kind of power you'd want from someone who struggles so much with the glove at a corner position. To me, he's either going to have to find more power, or be a much better fielder. I think he's kind of Kepler like in that he's not the heart of the order type hitter that he's talked about as, or put in the lineup as, and it's going to make people think he's a bad player when the truth is he's more likely just a solid regular who should be hitting 6-9 in an order instead of 3-5.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm generally against talking about player's hearts, mental status/focus, etc. because it's stuff we simply can't know, but Miranda certainly looks like he's in his own head, and really forcing things right now. There's half a dozen cuts to the dugout a game where he's on the ipad watching video it feels like. I think the kid is working, but he looks like a guy who's thinking about every ball hit to him, and trying to do too much at the plate. 

Well said. It's very easy for me to say... send him down without the information you are talking about but yeah... you and I and all of us are not responsible for his career and the future of club and the short term and long term impact of each day to day move. 

I am certainly not qualified for these decisions and I shouldn't be. 

With that said. SEND HIM DOWN! 😉  

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Is that because Miranda has been lightyears better than Cuddyer at this point of their careers?

Explain to me how this is true.

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Explain to me how this is true.

Lightyears is an exaggeration (just like comparing any TD poster to Harmon), but you can go look at what they'd done by either age or first 600+ PAs in the majors and Jose Miranda has been better than Michael Cuddyer was. 

[William K Johnson]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Is that because Miranda has been lightyears better than Cuddyer at this point of their careers?

When Miranda wins a batting title, come talk to me.    Cuddyer could hit, catch and throw.    Miranda has yet to show he can do any of those three things.

[chpettit19]

Just now, William K Johnson said:

When Miranda wins a batting title, come talk to me.    Cuddyer could hit, catch and throw.    Miranda has yet to show he can do any of those three things.

The point is that Michael Cuddyer didn't establish himself as an above average big leaguer until he was 27. Miranda is 24. The comparison is pretty apt. As others have pointed out, you're comparing Cuddyer's full 15 year career to Miranda's first 159 games. Cuddyer appeared in parts of 4 seasons before he got 159 games under his belt.

[William K Johnson]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

The point is that Michael Cuddyer didn't establish himself as an above average big leaguer until he was 27. Miranda is 24. The comparison is pretty apt. As others have pointed out, you're comparing Cuddyer's full 15 year career to Miranda's first 159 games. Cuddyer appeared in parts of 4 seasons before he got 159 games under his belt.

He will never be as good as Cuddyer.   I see him at best as a Trevor Plouffe caliber player.   Even at that, he has a way to go to reach that status.