Article: Top Stories for 2013: What to expect from the middle infield

[Seth Stohs]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1483-Top-Stories-for-2013-What-to-expect-from-the-middle-infield

[tjsyam921]

How much offense is required when a player is providing great value with the glove? I've always wondered.....How much defense is required when a player is providing great value with the bat? I haven't seen Rosario play but how good will his defense have to be to get his bat to the majors?

[Seth Stohs]

That is the great, fair opposite question that is also fair to ask. Most Twins fans say that Drew Butera doesn't provide enough offense to make up for his lack of offense. But we rarely hear the opposite.

[fairweather]

"That is the great, fair opposite question that is also fair to ask. Most Twins fans say that Drew Butera doesn't provide enough offense to make up for his lack of offense. But we rarely hear the opposite."--Not since Delmon left anyway. Something tells me that any sort of extended slump at the plate for Willingham would bring back those same grumblings.

[fairweather]

I expect good things out of the Twins middle infield this season. I don't expect those things to happen until Florimon and Dozier are replaced by Escobar and Carroll. Am I the only one who thinks Florimon and Dozier aren't ready to be big league starters? I'll take consistency over potential up the middle.

[LoganJones]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Carroll traded as part of a deal absorbing salary to take on a starter. Someone like Capuano, Lilly or someone from another team that is on the last year of a pricey deal.

[MNTwinsinCT]

The thing to be seen if both Dozier and Florimon play well in the field will be if their bats can contribute and keep innings alive. Dozier has more upside offensively and would fit in nicely in the 2 hole giving some balance to the lineup with Hicks switch hitting and Willingham likely in the 4 hole. The Twins lineup, if healthy could be set up pretty well, especially if Parm can hit too out of the 7 or even 8 hole. I thought going into 2012 the lineup looked nice, and I feel the same way this season. The lineup should be good enough to make a splash...now for the starting pitching...

[stringer bell]

Offensively, Florimon's track record looks substandard to the point that he can't be a regular player. However, he has a better chance at developing an acceptable hit tool than Jamie Carroll has of turning back the clock and also developing extra base pop. Of the four MIs mentioned here, I like Dozier the best. I was extremely impressed with his "D" in Florida, including doing a fine job of turning double plays. He has enough pop to turn on a few pitches and get several extra-base hits. I think he will be a regular until Rosario takes over. I have openly asked if Escobar has the speed and range to be a plus defender. In watching him a few games last year on TV and a few more in person in Florida, I can't tell. If his range is only average or adequate, his good glove and strong arm make him only an average middle infielder defensively and no one is expecting him to be a strong hitter.

[stringer bell]

How much offense is required when a player is providing great value with the glove? I've always wondered.....How much defense is required when a player is providing great value with the bat? I haven't seen Rosario play but how good will his defense have to be to get his bat to the majors?

Don't the Twins have the flip side of Drew Butera in the person of Ryan Doumit? IMHO, Doumit offers enough offense as an occasional catcher to make up for his shortcomings as a receiver.

[Halsey Hall]

I feel what will be intersting is to see how Florimon and Dozier handle struggles. With young players so often the struggles in the box are taken onto the field and vice versa Probably every player playing has gone thru that. Hopefully both can develop very short memories and just play in the moment.

 

As far as Carroll goes, I really enjoy watching him play the game. He knows it inside and out, and others can learn by watching him. He plays hard on every play. He'll get alot of playing time and I wouldn't be a bit surprised alot of it comes with Florimon and Dozier also on the field.

[old nurse]

How much offense is required when a player is providing great value with the glove? I've always wondered.....How much defense is required when a player is providing great value with the bat? I haven't seen Rosario play but how good will his defense have to be to get his bat to the majors?

 

The components of WAR are fielding and hitting. You would have to find how each position counts the fielding. MI fielding counts more so I would think it would have to be quite a bit better hitting.

[cwzimmerman]

Fingers crossed here. I fully expect that with the relative lack of quality MIs in the minor league system, Dozier and Florimon would have to almost horrific to be yanked from the lineup, and that's not to say that it can't or won't happen with either one. Of the two, I would imagine that Dozier will have a bit longer leash because there is at least some reason to believe he can provide a bit of offense to boot. Harder to say with Florimon vs. Escobar, as neither one is likely able to hit his way out of a wet paper bag for anything resembling a reasonable period of time.

 

Kind of makes one long for the days of Christian Guzman and Luis Rivas.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think you could have summed up this article in two words: "Not much".

 

I have hope for Dozier, but the rest of the guys listed there don't look like much more than backups.

[TheLeviathan]

I think you could have summed up this article in two words: "Not much".

 

I have hope for Dozier, but the rest of the guys listed there don't look like much more than backups.

 

i was thinking they warranted the invention of a new word: "pudridity"

[ALessKosherScott]

[video=youtube;lSPNQ82Sq4E]

[Badsmerf]

The Twins are not trading Carroll for a starter... (I'm not going to verbally assault you because its against the rules, but you might deserve it for that). How that comment as gone unnoticed so far is beyond me.

 

The only guy that deserves a starting spot out of all these guys is Dozier. Carroll is a legit back-up and has been his entire career. Basically, the MI is most likely going to be bad again.

[Seth Stohs]

I feel what will be intersting is to see how Florimon and Dozier handle struggles. With young players so often the struggles in the box are taken onto the field and vice versa Probably every player playing has gone thru that. Hopefully both can develop very short memories and just play in the moment.

 

As far as Carroll goes, I really enjoy watching him play the game. He knows it inside and out, and others can learn by watching him. He plays hard on every play. He'll get alot of playing time and I wouldn't be a bit surprised alot of it comes with Florimon and Dozier also on the field.

 

I'd say how anyone handles struggles tells a lot. Hicks will be the same, Parmelee, Plouffe. What makes Mauer so great is his ability to handle them so calmly, and then quickly.

 

I enjoy watching Carroll too. I truly think that Dozier will take off this year. Not like All Star level, but to a .700-.720 OPS which would be about league average for 2B. Florimon will struggle. Escobar is the youngest of the group by quite a bit. I think they'll be OK once they settle in.

[chuchadoro]

For the sake of Twins fans mental health, Twins Daily should try to avoid posting articles regarding RF, MI and the rotation in a 12 hour span.

[Brock Beauchamp]

For the sake of Twins fans mental health, Twins Daily should try to avoid posting articles regarding RF, MI and the rotation in a 12 hour span.

 

Hah. Fair point.

[70charger]

I'm bullish on Dozier, bearish on Florimon, and uncertain on Escobar. The article really didn't have much on him at all (not knocking it; it was a good article).

 

I think Dozier OPSes at around 700-725. I think Florimon may very well be demoted half a season in. I think Jamey Carroll actually does better this year than last, given last year's very slow start.

 

What's a realistic expectation for Escobar?

[ashbury]

What's a realistic expectation for Escobar?

 

If 2012 was a fluke and his minor league progression before that is any guide, I think .250/.300/.350 is very attainable and he has potential for more. I see the Florimonster as 50 to 100 OPS points below that; I would love for him to prove me wrong of course. I know better than to trust spring numbers, and yet it happens that both of them have spring numbers roughly in line with this.

[jun]

"That is the great, fair opposite question that is also fair to ask. Most Twins fans say that Drew Butera doesn't provide enough offense to make up for his lack of offense. But we rarely hear the opposite."--Not since Delmon left anyway. Something tells me that any sort of extended slump at the plate for Willingham would bring back those same grumblings.

How about Trevor Plouffe?

[jun]

I expect good things out of the Twins middle infield this season. I don't expect those things to happen until Florimon and Dozier are replaced by Escobar and Carroll. Am I the only one who thinks Florimon and Dozier aren't ready to be big league starters? I'll take consistency over potential up the middle.

 

Let's give Dozier some time to adjust to his new 2B position.

[jun]

Offensively, Florimon's track record looks substandard to the point that he can't be a regular player. However, he has a better chance at developing an acceptable hit tool than Jamie Carroll has of turning back the clock and also developing extra base pop. Of the four MIs mentioned here, I like Dozier the best. I was extremely impressed with his "D" in Florida, including doing a fine job of turning double plays. He has enough pop to turn on a few pitches and get several extra-base hits. I think he will be a regular until Rosario takes over. I have openly asked if Escobar has the speed and range to be a plus defender. In watching him a few games last year on TV and a few more in person in Florida, I can't tell. If his range is only average or adequate, his good glove and strong arm make him only an average middle infielder defensively and no one is expecting him to be a strong hitter.

 

Escobar has some speed, he is about 3 years younger than Florimon, he hits better than Florimon, he also plays good defense.

[jun]

Fingers crossed here. I fully expect that with the relative lack of quality MIs in the minor league system, Dozier and Florimon would have to almost horrific to be yanked from the lineup, and that's not to say that it can't or won't happen with either one. Of the two, I would imagine that Dozier will have a bit longer leash because there is at least some reason to believe he can provide a bit of offense to boot. Harder to say with Florimon vs. Escobar, as neither one is likely able to hit his way out of a wet paper bag for anything resembling a reasonable period of time.

 

Kind of makes one long for the days of Christian Guzman and Luis Rivas.

Escobar is 3 years younger than Florimon, statistically he hits better than Florimon.

[stringer bell]

Escobar has some speed, he is about 3 years younger than Florimon, he hits better than Florimon, he also plays good defense.

How much is "some speed"? It seems to me that despite a strong arm and a reliable glove, both the Whities and the Twins are reluctant to have Escobar play short. In viewing his SB numbers, he doesn't appear to have SB potential. Connecting the dots tells me that Escobar is just not fast enough or have enough range to be an outstanding defender

.

[Mr. Brooks]

How about Trevor Plouffe?

 

Even with the defensive struggles last year, Plouffe still put up a positive WAR, so even last year his bat overcame his defense.

 

Like you say above regarding giving Dozier some time to adjust to his new position, Plouffe was also playing a new position last year.

I think he'll be much better there this year.

He was brought up as a SS, so its not as if he doesnt have defensive talent. He came into last year preparing and expecting to play the OF, then was moved to a position he'd only played a handful of times since 2008 (and didnt play a lot of 3B even before then).

[Mr. Brooks]

How much is "some speed"? It seems to me that despite a strong arm and a reliable glove, both the Whities and the Twins are reluctant to have Escobar play short. In viewing his SB numbers, he doesn't appear to have SB potential. Connecting the dots tells me that Escobar is just not fast enough or have enough range to be an outstanding defender

.

 

I'm not defending Escobar, I really havent seen enough of either of them, but you don't need elite baserunning speed to be a good SS. JJ Hardy is about as slow as they come on the basepaths, but he is a very good defensive SS. You can make up for the lack of speed with good instincts, good footwork, and being in the right alignment.

[ThePuck]

How much is "some speed"? It seems to me that despite a strong arm and a reliable glove, both the Whities and the Twins are reluctant to have Escobar play short. In viewing his SB numbers, he doesn't appear to have SB potential. Connecting the dots tells me that Escobar is just not fast enough or have enough range to be an outstanding defender

.

 

Escobar played 518 games at shortstop in the minors...less than 60 at 2B. Escobar didn't play a lot of shortstop for the White Sox because Alexi Ramirez is there.

 

Now granted Escobar hasn't played much in the majors so gotta take the next with a grain of salt...but his UZR/150 for shortstop last year for 21.3. His RZR was .870. No starting shortstop was higher on either stat.

 

at 3B his UZR/150 was 14.9.

 

So, I mean, he seems to have some range in what limited time he's been up.

 

As far as 2B goes, he's a negative UZR/150. So maybe he should stay on the 3B side of the diamond...