ESPN's Schoenfield Twins Offseason Report Card

[diehardtwinsfan]

Mr.Ryan acomplished just what he wanted to do....

 

yes, I'm sure Mr. Ryan's goal was to build a losing team... I'm not terribly happy about the offseason, but there are some extremes on this board that border on ridiculous. I'd give Ryan a pretty poor grade for 2013 for much the same reasons everyone else did, but he set this team up very nicely for 2014/15 and beyond, and given the state of the team, that makes far more sense than spending everything to win now. Hopefully, come this July, he's flipping Morneau and Willingham for a SS and an SP that can help as well.

[drjim]

Hey, I would have preferred Marcum and/or McCarthy over Correia, but people are vastly overrating those guys (and Saunders) if they think it would have been much more than a marginal upgrade (win or two, maybe three if they have a great and healthy season and Correia completely collapses). If that is enough to have made you so much more happy with this offseason then your standards are much lower than I thought.

[TheLeviathan]

Hey, I would have preferred Marcum and/or McCarthy over Correia, but people are vastly overrating those guys (and Saunders) if they think it would have been much more than a marginal upgrade (win or two, maybe three if they have a great and healthy season and Correia completely collapses). If that is enough to have made you so much more happy with this offseason then your standards are much lower than I thought.

 

This response was pretty predictable. Calling them "marginal" upgrades is a bit silly not because they are great players, but moreso because our options last year really were THAT awful. Even signing an average pitcher is more than a marginal upgrade. Much less Marcum who has been well above average.

[edavis0308]

Sign two SP, SS, and 2B each that can post a 1-2 WAR improvement (shooting from the hip only here) and all of a sudden we could be approximately 8 wins better. Where is the line between "only a few extra wins" and "enough wins to matter"? I yearn for competent competitive baseball To watch all season, even if its not winning baseball.

[one_eyed_jack]

Going from godawful to mediocre is more than a marginal upgrade.

 

Now in the case of Correia, you're talking about going from godawful to just plain awful. That's a marginal upgrade.

[Ultima Ratio]

Going from godawful to mediocre is more than a marginal upgrade.

 

Now in the case of Correia, you're talking about going from godawful to just plain awful. That's a marginal upgrade.

 

But he's been awfully durable.

[TheLeviathan]

Sign two SP, SS, and 2B each that can post a 1-2 WAR improvement (shooting from the hip only here) and all of a sudden we could be approximately 8 wins better. Where is the line between "only a few extra wins" and "enough wins to matter"? I yearn for competent competitive baseball To watch all season, even if its not winning baseball.

 

I guess the conclusion I'm drawing from drjim's argument is that we have to wait to sign players that are 5-6 WAR before we bother? I'm not sure what qualifies as more than "marginal".

[nicksaviking]

What about Marcum and Haren? That would have bred some optimism in my soul. Maybe the Twins and Astros are just both angling for Carlos Rodon come the 2014 draft.

[Ultima Ratio]

I guess the conclusion I'm drawing from drjim's argument is that we have to wait to sign players that are 5-6 WAR before we bother? I'm not sure what qualifies as more than "marginal".

 

Right, but then we can't even give money away to get them.

[Top Gun]

More BEER!

[ashbury]

I'm not sure how happy a clam can get

 

Geico probably has an ad in the works that covers this.

[Top Gun]

More beer!!

[Twins Twerp]

Reading that article was like jumping in the frozen lake after a session in the sauna. I was looking for the 90+ wins category on the SN vote--but I couldn't find it.

 

For me, it was like that first freezing football practice where your hands are frozen. Then you go inside and tell the guys from dlwn south that u need to immediately put those hands under hot running water. I got that tingly feeling in my head and stomach. Needles. All said tho, this is oneguys opinion and I even read that the twins got a vote from a top executive for most improved al team. Espn even

[FrodaddyG]

I even read that the twins got a vote from a top executive for most improved al team.

It is kind of suspicious that that vote claimed the Twins did some "pretty darn good executiveing" this offseason. Hmmm...

[ThePuck]

..and I even read that the twins got a vote from a top executive for most improved al team. Espn even

 

Do you have a link so all of us can read it?

[drjim]

This response was pretty predictable. Calling them "marginal" upgrades is a bit silly not because they are great players, but moreso because our options last year really were THAT awful. Even signing an average pitcher is more than a marginal upgrade. Much less Marcum who has been well above average.

 

I was thinking more in regards to upgrade on what they had already done as opposed to upgrade on tbe slop from last year.

 

I just find the premise hilarious that if the Twins did what Rocketpig suggested that people on this board would be happy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I was thinking more in regards to upgrade on what they had already done as opposed to upgrade on tbe slop from last year.

 

I just find the premise hilarious that if the Twins did what Rocketpig suggested that people on this board would be happy.

 

Many would. Most of the board is thrilled about the trades. Had Ryan made anything more than token offers on the free agency market, I think the board's attitude would be generally positive.

 

Most of us realize that we're in a bridge year to the future. Only delusional people expecting the Twins to make a run at Greinke.

[Badsmerf]

Only delusional people expecting the Twins to make a run at Greinke.

 

I hate you so much right.

 

This article is a joke. This guy obviously knows nothing about the Twins. I don't disagree with everything he wrote, but blasting Parmelee, not even mentioning Benson, suggesting Perkins should start, not even mentioning Hendriks, this guy is clueless about this team. The only "D" grade I can agree with is starting pitching, even then I say it is a D+ with potential to be better with some luck. I'm as disappointed as anyone about the lack of attention to the ML roster, but at least there is promise here. This team could be competitive as early as next season. I'm hoping JR is saving money this offseason to sign some good starting pitching next....

[silverslugger]

Like it or not, this article is probably a good barometer of the national perception surrounding the Twins right now. Let's face it, our 25 man roster doesn't exactly strike fear in any opponents. I'm not exactly happy with what Ryan accomplished in FA. I am happy with the trades and very excited to watch all of our young talent continue to develop. It just means I'll be paying that much more attention to what's going on down on the farm and probably that much less attention to what's going on at Target Field.

[ThePuck]

Like it or not, this article is probably a good barometer of the national perception surrounding the Twins right now. Let's face it, our 25 man roster doesn't exactly strike fear in any opponents. I'm not exactly happy with what Ryan accomplished in FA. I am happy with the trades and very excited to watch all of our young talent continue to develop. It just means I'll be paying that much more attention to what's going on down on the farm and probably that much less attention to what's going on at Target Field.

 

Reality is a tough pill for some to swallow.

[fairweather]

These are the kinds of articles that should be in the star trib every day. Their should be no end the the public berating and belittling of the Twins ownership and front office by the media for their off season actions.

[ND-Fan]

The twins didn't need to sign the top of free agents lists for pitchers to improve this team but put much more effort into signing some of one year deals with free agent pitchers. First they had payroll fexibility to do so and even if season was a bust they could trade these pitchers for

a prospect or for a player that might fit into organization longterm planning. Aslo there have been a few middle infielders they could have signed to upgrade the level the twins have. Another possibility they could have traded for SS prospect that is major league ready and would still fit with total

rebuild the Twins are in now.This use of one year deals would not affected longterm goal or rebuilding and would still leave club option when this team is really ready to compete. This use of short term contracts would have left twins with a club that would have played 5oo ball and on outside chance they may have made the playoffs something for fans watch and optimism of future to come. The bottom line is philosophy of Twins and Terry Ryan is build within and be patience to get where your at. The Twins did well with this plan back in Terry's first stint as GM and this will probably work well again to building a team with least amount of dollars spent. The other side of this is what does it do to the revenue stream for club in the future by lost future attendance and Tv revenue if

Twins go through dark period like last time it makes Twins brand name less desireable product to put on TV. I think this was little bit of what you saw was difference with Bill Smith and Twins ownership he wanted use free Agent market to build team in near future but costs look to risky from ownership. Also Bill Smith track record on player aquitions were poor and had shown no where of improvement. I think Twins do wonderful job of scounting and identifying talent under Terry Ryan's leadership but when it comes to free agents Twins really fall down on this

because their behind on the curve. They are not using sabermetrics on prooven players to determine where they are at in their carreers but still using scounting and what they think they can be. Until they update this part of organization and start using it we are left with a team rebuilding from within waiting until they get right mix of playes to compete again.

[Nick Nelson]

I just find the premise hilarious that if the Twins did what Rocketpig suggested that people on this board would be happy.

 

What makes you say that? They made pretty much the smallest dent possible in the free agent market (short of not signing anybody). It's just not an impressive group of additions from any perspective really. If your assertion is that people are going to complain about anyone the Twins sign, you should probably go back and take a look at the responses to the Willingham and Doumit signings last year.

[snepp]

I just find the premise hilarious that if the Twins did what Rocketpig suggested that people on this board would be happy.

 

Is it more hilarious than taking what's obviously an extreme position, while being absolutely convinced that it's right?

[Mike Sixel]

I would not hold my breath on local writers holding the team that accountable. D for 2013 sounds about right. They are likely worse at two OF spots, did nothing to improve the infield, and added bad starters to the rotation. B sounds about right for the future.

[ThePuck]

B sounds about right for the future.

 

If we assume Worley. May and Meyer all work out, absolutely.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If we assume Worley. May and Meyer all work out, absolutely.

 

You cannot really look at it that strictly. Odds are good one of those guys won't work out... that's just a fact. The team desparately needed pitching, and it went and got some. You are going to have to take some risks... Hopefully, Ryan did a better job doing one of those type of "trade from surplus" trades than what Smith did for his. As his two big pitching surplus trades look really bad right now.

 

I'd also add that Worley has ML time at this point and you know what his floor is. Looking at his minor league numbers, the guy could still improve a bit too.

[ThePuck]

You cannot really look at it that strictly. Odds are good one of those guys won't work out... that's just a fact. The team desparately needed pitching, and it went and got some. You are going to have to take some risks... Hopefully, Ryan did a better job doing one of those type of "trade from surplus" trades than what Smith did for his. As his two big pitching surplus trades look really bad right now.

 

I'd also add that Worley has ML time at this point and you know what his floor is. Looking at his minor league numbers, the guy could still improve a bit too.

 

So, give them a grade of B for the future based on something other than the results of the players they got for the future? If they end up dogs, still give them a B?

[Mike Sixel]

You should judge the trade twice.....first in what you know at the time of the trade. Second, years later. But, really, the most fair is the first, given what you know now, would you make the trade? Anyone can make a good decision five years later. Now, that said, we do not have the same information as Ryan....so that makes it a bit harder.....if all three out pitchers work out, it is an A for the future......

[LoganJones]

The Twins outlook isn't surefire rosy, but this is a crap article. They have at least as much on-field talent as every team in the division except Detroit. That isn't saying much, I know.