5 Phillies test postive for COVID-19, they and 3 other teams shut down camps

[Nine of twelve]

This is an AP article posted on the StarTrib web site. And we haven't even started real full-time training yet. I have a LOT of trouble visualizing a feasible path toward full-time nationwide baseball if this is happening at this stage.

 

https://www.startribune.com/phillies-5-players-test-positive-for-virus-at-florida-camp/571371162/

[Doctor Gast]

Again, our fears shouldn`t be focused on whether non or low risk athletic persons get covid 19 or not because I haven`t heard 1 case where anyone has died or even been seriously ill & when we start testing more regularly we`ll see that many had had it & didn`t know they had. Why don`t we focus on high risk persons. The narrative is so worried to keep baseball players from getting covid 19 but it doesn`t care about high risk persons. 1st narrative was "embrace the public, there`s no problem" many high risk persons contracted it & died 2nd  No covid 19 patient can be denied entrance in a nursing home many contracted it & died 3rd even though there was adequate facilities many covid 19 patients were not separated from the general patients, common protocol wasn`t enforced.

CDC has been wrong every step because they believed in Beijing. We can`t believe the narrative because there`s agenda behind it. But we should observe & diligently seek out non-agenda facts. It seems that they aren`t urgent on getting the needed data

[Squirrel]

How this affects baseball is something of a logistics problem, imo. While many players might be considered 'low risk' we don't know their specifics ... one might have asthma, another might have hbp, (heh, that's high blood pressure, not hit by pitch), and what about their families and other employees, and there may also be some who are outliers and could get it bad ... because they were forced into a situation of playing games and just couldn't protect themselves better because of close contact to others. Who is responsible for this? And even if they are low risk and contract it ... it could mean the entire team then tests positive or falls ill, even if only mildly. Some may be asymptomatic and able to continue playing ... but should they? No. How this affects a baseball team ... what happens if half the team contracts it? It's not even about what their risk is when/if they get it ... it's that they could spread it to others ... their families, other employees, teammates, opposing players ... and so on. And once a player tests positive, they are out for a minimum of two weeks, longer if they get ill, and even longer if more seriously ill. What happens when a third to half the team needs to be quarantined? The feasibility of playing is really questionable for me. Again, this isn't even talking about what risk they bear in how sick they could get, it's how spreadable it is, who they spread it to and who then is out and for how long. It's really a logistics question. And I say this from my perspective of being in the 'entertainment' industry. Those who attend games, that's a choice we get to make ... but players? Hmm, are we 'forcing' them into a potentially hazardous situation just because we want to be entertained? 

 

[mikelink45]

Don't disregard this.  The virus is spread from supposedly healthy to those who are vulnerable and each step of the way the virus mutates and becomes more dangerous.  This is a big set back in what has been a very painful process of non-negotiations.  I will be surprised if there is any season.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I agree with what Doctor Gast was starting to say, that professional athletes would seem to be in the lower risk groups for getting sick from the virus even if they do acquire it. There are too many details we don’t know about the story.

 

Honestly, I’m surprised the players haven’t accepted living and playing in a “bubble” for this season. We’re only talking 3-4 months at this point. (I make it sound like I think MLB should try to play through it, because it seems the other pro sports leagues will be doing so, or have already started doing so.)

[Doctor Gast]

What I`ve stated before & didn`t just prior is that no one at risk should be forced to play. I believe like Kyle Gibson could be at risk, I`d hate to see him come down seriously w/ this

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I agree with what Doctor Gast was starting to say, that professional athletes would seem to be in the lower risk groups for getting sick from the virus even if they do acquire it. There are too many details we don’t know about the story.

 

Honestly, I’m surprised the players haven’t accepted living and playing in a “bubble” for this season. We’re only talking 3-4 months at this point. (I make it sound like I think MLB should try to play through it, because it seems the other pro sports leagues will be doing so, or have already started doing so.)

so baseball players are robots, segregated from the rest of society, no family or homes?

 

I’m not so worried about low risk people getting it, I’m worried about them giving it to high risk people. We can’t expect everyone to isolate all of the time, but even low risk people need to avoid high risk situations.

 

I was hopeful for baseball soon, but I am less optimistic now.

[Platoon]

The whole thing is hard for me to understand. The Covid hasn’t changed. It’s the same now is it was when it reared it’s ugly head. It’s us who are trying to change. Trying to justify and explain away the belief that we can congregate now, when we didn’t think we could 2-3 months ago. The Covid hasn’t changed. There are businesses that HAVE to be open. Health care, food processing, farming, and many others. Are major league sports included? Or for that matter sports in general. Do the Mankato Moon Dogs have to play? MN just opened up summer outdoor sports with games allowed 6/24. Indoor sports 7/1. What’s the difference between those dates, besides 6 days. The Covid hasn’t changed. My grandson was to play in a tourney in Cooperstown this summer, which was cancelled due to the Covid. So now what? They are going to WI Dells in August. I asked what’s changed? The Covid hasn’t changed. After a long series of justifications, my daughter finally admitted, "well you gotta do something".  The Covid will be glad to hear that the people have changed, they have given up. The Covid hasn’t. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

so baseball players are robots, segregated from the rest of society, no family or homes?

I’m not so worried about low risk people getting it, I’m worried about them giving it to high risk people. We can’t expect everyone to isolate all of the time, but even low risk people need to avoid high risk situations.

I was hopeful for baseball soon, but I am less optimistic now.

I’m always surprised when I see this take — not talking about you specifically. Servicemembers are separated from their families for much longer periods than we are talking about here. We should also have a better idea about how long quarantines should last after a player finishes his season or leaves the team (or reports to the team). Originally it was 14 days, just to be on the safe side. Isn’t 3-5 days more realistic? I don’t know.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The whole thing is hard for me to understand. The Covid hasn’t changed. It’s the same now is it was when it reared it’s ugly head. It’s us who are trying to change. Trying to justify and explain away the belief that we can congregate now, when we didn’t think we could 2-3 months ago. The Covid hasn’t changed. There are businesses that HAVE to be open. Health care, food processing, farming, and many others. Are major league sports included? Or for that matter sports in general. Do the Mankato Moon Dogs have to play? MN just opened up summer outdoor sports with games allowed 6/24. Indoor sports 7/1. What’s the difference between those dates, besides 6 days. The Covid hasn’t changed. My grandson was to play in a tourney in Cooperstown this summer, which was cancelled due to the Covid. So now what? They are going to WI Dells in August. I asked what’s changed? The Covid hasn’t changed. After a long series of justifications, my daughter finally admitted, "well you gotta do something".  The Covid will be glad to hear that the people have changed, they have given up. The Covid hasn’t.

 

I agree with both you and your daughter. Whether the public gives a damn or not, the public still does not understand how the virus is transmitted, and that’s a failure that transcends politics. I think taking advantage of summer and outdoor activities is wise. It seems like kids should be allowed to play little league, but that’s just me.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I’m always surprised when I see this take — not talking about you specifically. Servicemembers are separated from their families for much longer periods than we are talking about here. We should also have a better idea about how long quarantines should last after a player finishes his season or leaves the team (or reports to the team). Originally it was 14 days, just to be on the safe side. Isn’t 3-5 days more realistic? I don’t know.

yeah, but this isn’t a deployment into ‘Nam on a Huey, it’s baseball.

 

What do you mean “realistic”? According to the WHO people with Covid are Presymptomatic on average 5-6 days, up to 14. If anyone is going to be presymptomatic 14 days, isn’t it the strongest and healthiest?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

What do you mean “realistic”? According to the WHO people with Covid are Presymptomatic on average 5-6 days, up to 14. If anyone is going to be presymptomatic 14 days, isn’t it the strongest and healthiest?

Checking a CDC faq page, it looks like about half the people who get symptoms will show symptoms after about 4 or 5 days. But that research might be out of date or not applicable to the present time.

[Nine of twelve]

 

Again, our fears shouldn`t be focused on whether non or low risk athletic persons get covid 19 or not because I haven`t heard 1 case where anyone has died or even been seriously ill & when we start testing more regularly we`ll see that many had had it & didn`t know they had. Why don`t we focus on high risk persons.

Doing whatever is necessary to prevent the spread of COVID-19 IS focusing on high risk persons. A young healthy individual who has the virus but has few or mild symptoms is probably the worst case scenario. Someone like that often feels no need to restrict his or her activities and as a result the virus can get spread extensively.

People seem to have trouble understanding that the issue is not just the health of the infected individual. The big issue is trying to control the spread of a very contagious virus.

[Dantes929]

 

What I`ve stated before & didn`t just prior is that no one at risk should be forced to play. I believe like Kyle Gibson could be at risk, I`d hate to see him come down seriously w/ this

 

 

Again, our fears shouldn`t be focused on whether non or low risk athletic persons get covid 19 or not because I haven`t heard 1 case where anyone has died or even been seriously ill & when we start testing more regularly we`ll see that many had had it & didn`t know they had. Why don`t we focus on high risk persons. The narrative is so worried to keep baseball players from getting covid 19 but it doesn`t care about high risk persons. 1st narrative was "embrace the public, there`s no problem" many high risk persons contracted it & died 2nd  No covid 19 patient can be denied entrance in a nursing home many contracted it & died 3rd even though there was adequate facilities many covid 19 patients were not separated from the general patients, common protocol wasn`t enforced.

CDC has been wrong every step because they believed in Beijing. We can`t believe the narrative because there`s agenda behind it. But we should observe & diligently seek out non-agenda facts. It seems that they aren`t urgent on getting the needed data

I don't ever remember the CDC saying "embrace the public, there's no problem".   I do remember one person saying it but not the CDC.   I could be wrong.   I also remember the CDC saying high risk people are the concern and a lot of other things that are still considered valid.   They probably have been wrong here and there along the way and maybe it was because they believed Biejing but that is really a rather reasonable starting point for a novel virus.      As far as agenda facts the only fact I really don't trust is the death rate.   Just seems to vary so much by county, state and country.     I feel like death attribution has been inflated in some areas and deflated in others, like you said, to support an agenda.    I don't distrust the CDC though of course there is bias in everything.   I just think this is an incredibly complex situation.

[Dantes929]

 

The whole thing is hard for me to understand. The Covid hasn’t changed. It’s the same now is it was when it reared it’s ugly head. It’s us who are trying to change. Trying to justify and explain away the belief that we can congregate now, when we didn’t think we could 2-3 months ago. The Covid hasn’t changed. There are businesses that HAVE to be open. Health care, food processing, farming, and many others. Are major league sports included? Or for that matter sports in general. Do the Mankato Moon Dogs have to play? MN just opened up summer outdoor sports with games allowed 6/24. Indoor sports 7/1. What’s the difference between those dates, besides 6 days. The Covid hasn’t changed. My grandson was to play in a tourney in Cooperstown this summer, which was cancelled due to the Covid. So now what? They are going to WI Dells in August. I asked what’s changed? The Covid hasn’t changed. After a long series of justifications, my daughter finally admitted, "well you gotta do something".  The Covid will be glad to hear that the people have changed, they have given up. The Covid hasn’t. 

As soon as the restrictions lifted I talked to my staff about being more conscientious of cleanliness and distancing.     I suspect it fell on deaf ears.    Thankfully, there are a lot of business that still take the issue seriously and reopened with all precautions in place.   That doesn't mean its 100% safe.   Then there are businesses that protested the lockdown saying they could open safely and they have taken no precautions whatsoever as far as I can see.   It doesn't mean they will all contract covid.   Just means they are more likely to.   Big picture maybe it is better for the world to develop the herd immunity even at great cost.   Who knows?   Little picture, I want the ones I love that are high risk to be safe and am sad that people out there just don't even consider anything but themselves.   

[Squirrel]

Moderator hat: Please keep the discussion of Covid related to baseball and resuming play safely or not. We tried to have a Covid discussion thread in the Sports Bar forum and it devolved into a political discussion and a lot of misinformation, depending on which individual website posters decided was the most factual and which expert/non-expert we felt was most trusted. We probably won't really know what's what in regards to rates of anything until we are truly on the other side of this, and all data is collected and analyzed. So ... back to baseball related conversation.

 

Non-moderator, regular poster hat: I still go by what I said above ... I really don't see the feasibility in keeping teams fielded. I think it becomes logistically difficult. Whatever your belief on risk and safety, the minute someone tests positive, three test positive, and quarantine protocols will be put in place. What happens if half a team needs to be quarantined? And when members of one team test positive, how will that affect whether or not a team wants to play at that team's facility? And that doesn't even begin to discuss issues of risk for family members and on-field staff and other personnel, which is yet another aspect. While we have all been focussed on the money issues and owner vs player issues, I think this is the issue that will potentially sink the season more than disagreeing about money.

[Nine of twelve]

 

While we have all been focused on the money issues and owner vs player issues, I think this is the issue that will potentially sink the season more than disagreeing about money.

Will potentially sink? To me it's already sink sank sunk. Good morning, good afternoon, good night. See you in 2021.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Will potentially sink? To me it's already sink sank sunk. Good morning, good afternoon, good night. See you in 2021.

If the most important thing here is to avoid getting the virus until you are vaccinated, do you think there is even a chance at a 2021 season?

[cardsfan]

If the most important thing here is to avoid getting the virus until you are vaccinated, do you think there is even a chance at a 2021 season?

You do know that the mumps vaccine was the fastest to market at 4 years?

[Vanimal46]

Negotiating the finances to start playing was supposed to be the easy part. If players and coaches are already testing positive with a skeleton crew at these facilities, it's going to get worse when the whole team shows up. 

[Tomj14]

 

If the most important thing here is to avoid getting the virus until you are vaccinated, do you think there is even a chance at a 2021 season?

Maybe is my answer your question. But can't imagine a full normal season.

 

Lets say they have a vaccine by the end of the year. My thought would be the first people to get them would be the high risk (unknown amount of people, medical field (16 million), police (~800,000) , teachers and other school staff (3.2 million teachers) then the kids.

And you have to figure the rest of the world would do something similiar, so the low risk people wouldn't be getting that until much later in the year, thus pushing sports out again.

(and if they gave the professional athletes the vaccine prior to the teachers, thus not allowing kids to go back to school, well IMO could cause professional sports to lose money, because I would never attend a game again.)

 

But if you change 'most important thing here is to avoid getting the virus until you are vaccinated" to most important thing is minimizing the spread to allow life to go on, then baseball will happen for sure next year because there are enough people willing to go a little further than others and IMO there will be enough of those people to support a season.

 

 

 

[dbminn]

Young, healthy people have a low risk of dying from Covid-19 but they still can require hospitalization. CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under. Many of those will have effects from the virus long after they are "recovered". As others have said, this doesn't even consider how many organization employees are older or have underlying conditions that make them susceptible. Of course, nearly everyone has relatives or friends that fall into the "danger" category for death.

 

Hospitalization rates can be found here. 

 

A recent collection of anecdotes regarding heathy young people and ongoing symptoms can be found here. I can send links to peer-reviewed research on this developing issue if someone wants it.

 

Baseball could be played again if leaders would take their responsibilities seriously. Starting the game in two states, Florida and Arizona, that have rapidly increasing case rates is not a good idea. 

[Tomj14]

 

Young, healthy people have a low risk of dying from Covid-19 but they still can require hospitalization. CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under. Many of those will have effects from the virus long after they are "recovered". As others have said, this doesn't even consider how many organization employees are older or have underlying conditions that make them susceptible. Of course, nearly everyone has relatives or friends that fall into the "danger" category for death.

 

Hospitalization rates can be found here. 

 

A recent collection of anecdotes regarding heathy young people and ongoing symptoms can be found here. I can send links to peer-reviewed research on this developing issue if someone wants it.

 

Baseball could be played again if leaders would take their responsibilities seriously. Starting the game in two states, Florida and Arizona, that have rapidly increasing case rates is not a good idea. 

Which part of the website shows - "CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under"

 

Not saying it isn't there, just wondering how you came up with 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under?

[nicksaviking]

 

Which part of the website shows - "CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under"

 

Not saying it isn't there, just wondering how you came up with 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under?

 

I don't know why we are focusing on the young people. Even if someone wanted to give them a mortality rate of .1%, are we just supposed to tell Dusty Baker and Ron Gardenhire tough luck? There are plenty of non-20-year-olds who will still be involved.

[Tomj14]

 

I don't know why we are focusing on the young people. Even if someone wanted to give them a mortality rate of .1%, are we just supposed to tell Dusty Baker and Ron Gardenhire tough luck? There are plenty of non-20-year-olds who will still be involved.

Sorry, was just trying to figure out how they dbminn got that number.

 

I don't think the start of the season this year or next should be based on young people covid stats,going on your logic (which seems pretty legit) MLB can't start without a vaccine. And I have been saying that since March, because nothing has changed since March, it is still around, no vaccine, no other meds to help,

and no end in site. And no amount of prevention (Which of course I am 100% on board with the owners of this site on mask prevention) is going to stop it.

So how do you start a season in a team sport without taking chances with the virus?

[Craig Arko]

 

 

So how do you start a season in a team sport without taking chances with the virus?

Maybe you don’t. Maybe you shouldn’t. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You do know that the mumps vaccine was the fastest to market at 4 years?

More details into why and how vaccine testing and approval works

 

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/here-s-why-we-can-t-rush-covid-19-vaccine

[dbminn]

 

Which part of the website shows - "CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under"

 

Not saying it isn't there, just wondering how you came up with 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under?

 

You are correct! Wrong CDC page. I've spent a bit of time and searching and cannot find it back. I promise I will look later. I'm very sorry! I don't like screwing up with this data.

 

In the meantime, here's a summary from UT Southwestern re: Covid in the Dallas area. Fourth slide shows that 50% of those hospitalized are now under the age of 50, as of June 19. 

[dbminn]

 

Which part of the website shows - "CDC reports 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under"

 

Not saying it isn't there, just wondering how you came up with 30-35% of all hospitalizations are people 45 and under?

 

Let's try again: Here

 

Top left chart, change to "percent" and expand. CDC puts their data in about 30 different sections of their website. None of it is intuitive.

[biggentleben]

 

I agree with what Doctor Gast was starting to say, that professional athletes would seem to be in the lower risk groups for getting sick from the virus even if they do acquire it. There are too many details we don’t know about the story.

Honestly, I’m surprised the players haven’t accepted living and playing in a “bubble” for this season. We’re only talking 3-4 months at this point. (I make it sound like I think MLB should try to play through it, because it seems the other pro sports leagues will be doing so, or have already started doing so.)

 

I'm taking you away from your family for 3-4 months. Sounds good?

 

An estimate is that there are 150 MLB babies to be born by the end of the year, meaning many players will be leaving behind very pregnant wives.

 

Frankly, we're looking at the very real possibility that a large contingent of notable names opt out of the season. At that point, is it really a legitimate season anyway? Do you want the league back if that's what's being played?