Coronavirus

[Squirrel]

 

So now All things are used politically Mr Absolutist? So my statement about the danger of the virus is invalidated by you, because of my points on it being used politically - and your comeback is "well of course all things are used politically?
If indeed you believe this / and to read your mind like you are attempting to read mine/I don't think you really do - then how do you conclude I'm being disingenuous saying the virus is dangerous by making what you call an obvious point about political motivations? You are the one sir who is being disingenuous in claiming you believe this virus is being used politically. I don't believe you or my post would not have elicited this response from you, and your shifting arguments. Did you even read the study I referenced? 2 posters challenged me on the existence of the study I referred to. I gave them the study, and I heard crickets. It was the results of this study that spurred my comment. Rather than fly off the emotional handle in your aggression to squash what you perceive as dissent, open your eyes to the whole truth. Not just the truth you prefer. Narratives are dangerous. They force everything to fit within a predetermined idea, whether they do or not. This is how the big lie becomes the truth. This Country thinks the virus kills 9% of those that get it. That is not the truth - so why is this? Because a political party is trying to win an election. That's the study, hence my comment - therefore according to you I cannot possibly believe the virus is dangerous. Ok

 

 

No one responded to the study because the source of study was a bit iffy (in that it was difficult to determine the basis of the organization it came from) and didn't seem like something on which to base one's entire opinion of the virus, given all the resources out there. Doing that seems to point to having an opinion and finding one study to justify it; or liking the conclusions of one study and going with only that. That level of holding an opinion can't really be debated or discussed. That said ... 'This country thinks the virus kills 9% of those that get it.' No, this country does not. You are in this country, yes?, and you don't. I don't and I'm a citizen. It's those kinds of statements that lead nowhere and are not sourced in anything correct but you stating hyperbole. If you want to have a discussion on the virus, false and misleading data points are not acceptable. You can believe what you want to, no one is stopping you ... but be careful in how you state these opinions for public consumption at TD. With more being learned every day through scientific research, we all need to be very cautious in how we present our opinions and not base them in hyperbole.

 

That said ... I'm going to ask you, Levi and everyone ... to agree to disagree. This is not a debate to the death of absolutes. For me the bottom line is ... too much unknown at this point so being cautious, diligent, reading whatever I can and following experts' directives or following leaders' policies based on those directive seems the way to go for today. Anyone is welcome to disregard anything they want, but this is not the place for misleading, disproven or hyperbolic statements.

 

As for making this political ... everyone ... don't.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A couple of months ago, the UK was tracking in similar death numbers proportional to the US given their respective populations.

Then the UK started taking it seriously, at least in part because Johnson himself came down with COVID.

Now the UK is tracking between 10-20 deaths a day while the US is still averaging around 1,000 deaths a day.

Embarrassing.

I don’t see how the US comes out the other side of this with fewer than 250,000 deaths. We just passed 180,000.

[Squirrel]

 

[Craig Arko]

PSA.

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/fda-please-dont-drink-hand-sanitizer-even-if-its-sold-in-a-beer-can/

[Dodecahedron]

 

A couple of months ago, the UK was tracking in similar death numbers proportional to the US given their respective populations.

Then the UK started taking it seriously, at least in part because Johnson himself came down with COVID.

Now the UK is tracking between 10-20 deaths a day while the US is still averaging around 1,000 deaths a day.

Embarrassing.

I don’t see how the US comes out the other side of this with fewer than 250,000 deaths. We just passed 180,000.

 

I read a UK government report, and their take was the people who died early on "would have died anyway." This is of course a ridiculous take. The people may have died in six months or six years, they don't know.

 

Yes, the death rates in the US and the UK have gone down from their peaks (the US not far enough), but one must remember this is a global pandemic. The global death rate has been flat since the pandemic took off early this year. The global death rate has not fallen at all! This means the UK and the US cannot simply start to believe it's over -- as long as the pandemic is active anywhere it can strike the UK and US again at any time.

 

As for the response in the USA, if you ignore some very vocal pundits and politicians (who have been proven wrong, again and again), the response in the US has been pretty good. Retail stores have all adjusted very quickly. Overall, I am proud of the response in the US, and I'm doubly proud of how organizations ignored politicians and pundits to do what is right and obvious.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I read a UK government report, and their take was the people who died early on "would have died anyway." This is of course a ridiculous take. The people may have died in six months or six years, they don't know.

 

Yes, the death rates in the US and the UK have gone down from their peaks (the US not far enough), but one must remember this is a global pandemic. The global death rate has been flat since the pandemic took off early this year. The global death rate has not fallen at all! This means the UK and the US cannot simply start to believe it's over -- as long as the pandemic is active anywhere it can strike the UK and US again at any time.

 

As for the response in the USA, if you ignore some very vocal pundits and politicians (who have been proven wrong, again and again), the response in the US has been pretty good. Retail stores have all adjusted very quickly. Overall, I am proud of the response in the US, and I'm doubly proud of how organizations ignored politicians and pundits to do what is right and obvious.

My problem is that private interests have had to work around and against politicians and pundits to get where we are today.

 

That in itself means we're constantly facing more sickness and death than is necessary, as mindspace and opinion is being wasted by arguing with experts in this field and it's usually being argued by the least qualified among us to debate these points (and, as such, the points are rarely debated honestly).

[Vanimal46]

On this day in 2020 I was in Atlanta for a work conference, and Covid was starting to pop up in the news. That was the last work trip I took, and now I’ve been working remote for over a year. Pretty crazy to think about. One year of our lives is gone and we’ll never get it back due to the pandemic.

[Craig Arko]

 

On this day in 2020 I was in Atlanta for a work conference, and Covid was starting to pop up in the news. That was the last work trip I took, and now I’ve been working remote for over a year. Pretty crazy to think about. One year of our lives is gone and we’ll never get it back due to the pandemic.

Yes. Of course for over half a million Americans, all the years of their life is gone.

[Vanimal46]

Yes. Of course for over half a million Americans, all the years of their life is gone.

That is true. There’s been suffering throughout the country. My intention of posting in this thread again wasn’t to start any arguments about mishaps along the way. Rather, a reflection on a date that sticks out in my mind before our new normal.

 

It was the last date I was without a face covering in public places... If you went to the first few pages of this thread I did not take it seriously at first. There’s not enough crow in the Austin area for me to eat with my attitude at the start. It’s been a roller coaster of emotions throughout this ordeal. And I’ve learned a lot of lessons along the way.

[Craig Arko]

 

That is true. There’s been suffering throughout the country. My intention of posting in this thread again wasn’t to start any arguments about mishaps along the way. Rather, a reflection on a date that sticks out in my mind before our new normal.

It was the last date I was without a face covering in public places... If you went to the first few pages of this thread I did not take it seriously at first. There’s not enough crow in the Austin area for me to eat with my attitude at the start. It’s been a roller coaster of emotions throughout this ordeal. And I’ve learned a lot of lessons along the way.

To be sure. Each of us, everyone, has had our own battles to fight. I do not mean to diminish yours, my young friend.

[Vanimal46]

 

Exciting development! Welcome back to the new world, Minnesota!

[MMMordabito]

I got my first shot yesterday (Pfizer).  I thought only the second one was supposed to make you feel like crap.  Anyway, this confirms that I will be passing zero judgement on anyone who passes on these vaccinations.  

[Squirrel]

 

I got my first shot yesterday (Pfizer).  I thought only the second one was supposed to make you feel like crap.  Anyway, this confirms that I will be passing zero judgement on anyone who passes on these vaccinations.  

 

 

I got my first shot yesterday (Pfizer).  I thought only the second one was supposed to make you feel like crap.  Anyway, this confirms that I will be passing zero judgement on anyone who passes on these vaccinations.  

I got my first one almost 3 weeks ago (getting the 2nd one tomorrow) ... other than a slightly sore arm, no reaction after the first.

 

It's different for everyone, but, imho, not a good excuse not to get one. You aren't alone, though ... a lot of people fear the needle and/or side effects more than the benefits to society at large. Again, still imho. The reaction will be short-lived, from what I've heard from all my friends who have gone before me. My 91 yr old mother had zero reaction from either of her (Moderna) shots, not even much arm soreness. If we could all be so lucky!

[MMMordabito]

 

I got my first one almost 3 weeks ago (getting the 2nd one tomorrow) ... other than a slightly sore arm, no reaction after the first.

 

It's different for everyone, but, imho, not a good excuse not to get one. You aren't alone, though ... a lot of people fear the needle and/or side effects more than the benefits to society at large. Again, still imho. The reaction will be short-lived, from what I've heard from all my friends who have gone before me. My 91 yr old mother had zero reaction from either of her (Moderna) shots, not even much arm soreness. If we could all be so lucky!

 

I'm still going to get my second one, but I'll definitely raise an eyebrow when someone calls out someone like Simmons.  I think the main thing for me is that I know people who are or have children that are allergic to what seems like everything.  I'm not sure that's Simmons' reason, but I know the worry that goes on in those situations.  However, they are less than 15% of the people I know, so in my circle 85% is still achievable.  These crappy side effects just firm up my opinion on that.  

[Squirrel]

 

I'm still going to get my second one, but I'll definitely raise an eyebrow when someone calls out someone like Simmons.  I think the main thing for me is that I know people who are or have children that are allergic to what seems like everything.  I'm not sure that's Simmons' reason, but I know the worry that goes on in those situations.  However, they are less than 15% of the people I know, so in my circle 85% is still achievable.  These crappy side effects just firm up my opinion on that.  

Well ... again, imo ... unless your personal physician has said otherwise, it's still a good idea. I'm not going to publicly call out Simmons, but I do raise an eyebrow wondering at his choice, as you raise an eyebrow for those who call him out. Still his choice, and I won't deny his choice, but I still won't and don't agree with it ... unless his physician has said to hold off or abstain for personal medical conditions. I can't deny the wariness some have, but a lot of that comes from misleading or false information. A friend of mine at Mayo has been surprised that of the patients she has given the vaccine to, it's been men who have been the most wary ... whether it's a needle issue or not wanting to be inconvenienced with side effects. (Her words and thoughts, not mine.)

 

Anyway ... mostly, for me ... it's an issue of society at large. I've said this before, I work in an industry that was the first to close, and will be the last to reopen. If this helps my friends and my organization and like organizations to (finally) be able to try and get back on their feet, I'm for it.

[Squirrel]

 

I got my first shot yesterday (Pfizer).  I thought only the second one was supposed to make you feel like crap.  Anyway, this confirms that I will be passing zero judgement on anyone who passes on these vaccinations.  

I mean ... if you are posting here, it can't be worse than period cramps. Imagine having to deal with that side effect for 5-7 days every month from age 13 to age 55 (approx)

 

Yes, we know who's tougher

[MMMordabito]

 

I mean ... if you are posting here, it can't be worse than period cramps. Imagine having to deal with that side effect for 5-7 days every month from age 13 to age 55 (approx)

 

Yes, we know who's tougher

 

Waah ... Once again, it's not bad enough that I personally won't get the second shot. I just won't judge or question those who don't get a shot.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think the main thing for me is that I know people who are or have children that are allergic to what seems like everything.

That's why it's important to not be obstinate about vaccinations. Some people are far more likely to have adverse reactions, which makes the "but I don't wanna" crowd all the more insufferable.

 

BTW, after being vaccinated once, I had three days of "Covid toe", which is pretty close to gout and left me immobile for most of three days so my tolerance for "but I don't wanna" is pretty damned low.

 

(I get my second shot in two days)

[a-wan]

Maybe it is my years of taking care of critically ill patients in the emergency department or my board certification as a nurse practitioner that makes me annoyed at this. But alluding to the immune response after vaccination in the same sentence as a reason not to be vaccinated is completely and absolutely idiotic.

 

You want to know what is even more uncomfortable than an immune response post vaccination? Being intubated due to severe respiratory distress from covid. Or the associated urinary catheter that we shove into you or OG or NG tubes that we shove down so we can suction gastric contents of your stomach while you're intubated so you don't choke on it. Or the central line that goes into your neck.

Or maybe you'll argue about the young healthy that don't need to be vaccinated. Such as Marco Rossi of the Wild who hasn't been able to do anything due to the myocarditis post infection. Or Jason Tatum of the Celtics who still has problems.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That's why it's important to not be obstinate about vaccinations. Some people are far more likely to have adverse reactions, which makes the "but I don't wanna" crowd all the more insufferable.

 

BTW, after being vaccinated once, I had three days of "Covid toe", which is pretty close to gout and left me immobile for most of three days so my tolerance for "but I don't wanna" is pretty damned low.

 

(I get my second shot in two days)

 

A few hours of discomfort for the good of all society and to help those at risk seems like a small price to pay.  Vaccines work by eradicating the opportunity for a virus to spread.  That requires buy-in from us all.

 

It's ok not to love having to get a shot, but we need to get back to a point where we recognize we're all in this crazy ride together.  Our greatest accomplishments have come when we recognize the shared sacrifice rather than indulge our self-centered nature.

[MMMordabito]

I'm sorry, but nothing that's been said here is going to convince me to pass judgement on people who don't want to get vaccinated. My wife and I will get our second shots in three weeks. My son will get vaccinated after his lacrosse season is over. After that, it's live and let live.

[gunnarthor]

I don't actually think you're sorry. 

[MMMordabito]

 

I don't actually think you're sorry. 

 

You're correct.  It's just a figure of speech.

[Craig Arko]

 

I don't actually think you're sorry. 

Perhaps just not in the apologetic usage of the word.

[Vanimal46]

We’ll never hit 100% vaccination rate, nor should that be a realistic goal. Some people are too far gone down the path of misinformation.

 

I think in the next week or 2 we should open it up to all ages and start getting the kids involved. As of yesterday, the county Austin is in has 58% of the population age 16 and above receiving at least one shot. It’s time to get close to a herd immunity and start living again.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/n0th03/travis_county_covid19_confirmed_cases_have_risen/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[Squirrel]

2nd one done! Woohoo!

[biggentleben]

I'm a few weeks past having my second shot done.

 

Both shots knocked me down pretty good for 24 hours. Neither was ANYTHING like when I had COVID.

[Nine of twelve]

 

I just won't judge or question those who don't get a shot.

OK, but I will. I think it is wrong not to be vaccinated unless you have a documented medical reason not to be vaccinated.

[Dodecahedron]

We hear about how the two top-shelf vaccines have a ~95% efficacy rate against severe disease.  Very good.

We also hear that the J&J vaccine efficacy rate is ~65% against severe disease.  Alright.

I'm wondering what the level of immunity against severe disease is among the unvaccinated?  I ask because that 65% rate seems to be less than the number of unvaccinated people who have severe reactions to Covid. 

I'm certainly not advocating that no one get the J&J vaccine, but I'm thinking it won't move the needle for herd immunity because we are already starting at 65% (or higher) for innate immunity from severe Covid disease.  Certainly the J&J vaccine will help some people, those who are for whatever reason more susceptible to the disease, but if the goal is "herd immunity," this vaccine has no chance.  And, heck, it may even be dangerous as it seems useless against a person's body creating and spreading a new variant?

Someone tell me I'm not getting it.  (Yes, I know we will not hit "herd immunity" anyway for cultural/political reasons.)

[TheLeviathan]

One advantage I can think of is that it's a single shot.  Perhaps the convenience of it is enough to push a few people across the line.

At this point that seems to be the strategy: keep nudging any rational person willing to at least consider it.