Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[Jim Hahn]

For any baseball organization there are 2 main considerations when dealing with players (both major and minor leaguers). What is best for the player and what is best for the organization. In Buxton's case what was best for Buxton is pretty clear to me. If he was healthy, once it was clear that his timing was back, he should of been brought back to the majors. He should have been given as many ab's as possible. This would have given him a chance to work with major league coaches, and see major league pitching again. If he did well, he would of gained some confidence going into the off-season. If he did poorly, he could have given a plan of what to work on.

 

Interestingly enough, this was probably the best thing for the organization as well. Anything they could do that has the best chance of getting Buxton to be the best player he can be as soon as possible surely should be the goal. So for me the question is, is gaining the extra year of control worth delaying Buxton s development?

 

Buxton may not become the superstar his talent says he could be. Still, I am pretty uncomfortable with a strategy that is not in the best interests of the player. Especially when the major benefit to organization, the extra year of player control, could be potentially achieved through an extension. It is also likely that this strategy made an extension more difficult to achieve.

[ewen21]

I cannot fault the Twins for Buxton's development (or lack thereof) offensively.  He was given so much support and PLENTY of at bats for him to learn.  A lot of his lack of offensive prowess falls on him.

[Riverbrian]

 

Interestingly enough, this was probably the best thing for the organization as well. Anything they could do that has the best chance of getting Buxton to be the best player he can be as soon as possible surely should be the goal. So for me the question is, is gaining the extra year of control worth delaying Buxton s development?

 

 

Yes... without question... Yes. I'll take the year. 

 

In my opinion, the Twins should be done thinking about development at this point. He has over 1,000 plate appearances. When players reach arbitration, there should be something to arbitrate.

 

This isn't Royce Lewis getting called up seeing major league sliders for the first time. He's seen a major league slider before. 

 

The Twins are going to give him another chance and probably another chance after that. It's all in his hands. They will offer him every tool available to the organization to start flying right. It is all in his hands.

 

If he is as good as advertised... this will all take care of itself. He will be incredibly rich, and fans will buy his merchandise. He just has to start making contact with the ball. 

 

If he is not... if this is what he is. See Billy Hamilton, See Ben Revere, See Jerrod Dyson and slide Buxton into that grouping. 20 years from now... someone will bring up his name while i'm in the Old Folks home and I won't remember him. 

[jorgenswest]

It could be the pivotal decision of this front office. I am going to assume that they had little hope of an extension after attempting negotiations last winter. It certainly wouldn't be a surprise that a talented player coming off a good season is advised not to engage in extension negotiations.

 

Without question this decision did not sit well with anyone in the clubhouse. It could turn out that this season is rocky and they have difficulty with the roster. If it carries through to a poor season the Twins will need to clean out the front office. The additional year of service time will be to the benefit of the Twins and the next leadership. 

 

The safer short term decision would have been to call Buxton up September 1. Our leadership is in it for the long term. I hope they are right on this one.

[ewen21]

 

It could be the pivotal decision of this front office. I am going to assume that they had little hope of an extension after attempting negotiations last winter. It certainly wouldn't be a surprise that a talented player coming off a good season is advised not to engage in extension negotiations.

 

Without question this decision did not sit well with anyone in the clubhouse. It could turn out that this season is rocky and they have difficulty with the roster. If it carries through to a poor season the Twins will need to clean out the front office. The additional year of service time will be to the benefit of the Twins and the next leadership. 

 

The safer short term decision would have been to call Buxton up September 1. Our leadership is in it for the long term. I hope they are right on this one.

 

This assumes that he turns out to be a special player and that he wouldn't leave for more money as soon as he can.  Two different scenarios and neither work out for the Twins.  Any third or fourth scenario is far less likely than either of these two.  By a mile.

 

I happen to think that extending Buxton last winter was not a sound idea.  He wasn't going to do that anyway, unless we got crazy and offered him stupid money.

[Jim Hahn]

Yes... without question... Yes. I'll take the year. 

 

In my opinion, the Twins should be done thinking about development at this point. He has over 1,000 plate appearances. When players reach arbitration, there should be something to arbitrate.

 

This isn't Royce Lewis getting called up seeing major league sliders for the first time. He's seen a major league slider before. 

 

The Twins are going to give him another chance and probably another chance after that. It's all in his hands. They will offer him every tool available to the organization to start flying right. It is all in his hands.

 

If he is as good as advertised... this will all take care of itself. He will be incredibly rich, and fans will buy his merchandise. He just has to start making contact with the ball. 

 

If he is not... if this is what he is. See Billy Hamilton, See Ben Revere, See Jerrod Dyson and slide Buxton into that grouping. 20 years from now... someone will bring up his name while i'm in the Old Folks home and I won't remember him.

 

Of course development is a part of this . You don't believe a player can't improve after 1000 at bats? But that isn't really the issue. Largely this strategy of the Twins both punished him for getting injured/having migraines and failed to help him work on improving by sending him home. Having the extra year of control only benefits the Twins if Buxton becomes a very good player.

 

All I am saying here is I don't think that this was the best strategy if the goal is to help to help Buxton become the best player possible.

[Dr. Evil]

Two philosophies come to mind regarding MLB playing time.

 

a. Earn it through results.

b. Get chances due to perceived "ceiling."

 

The Twins have believed in his ceiling and continued rolling him out there(when health has permitted it) even when his results have been poor. So, regaining a year of service time should not overshadow their belief in him as a player.

 

First and foremost, the best "ability" is availability. His frequent injuries have prevented him from gathering any career momentum. I hope the extended offseason gets him free of any lingering injuries and he finds a way to tweak his playing style in a direction that keeps him on the field.

[Riverbrian]

 

Of course development is a part of this . You don't believe a player can't improve after 1000 at bats? But that isn't really the issue. Largely this strategy of the Twins both punished him for getting injured/having migraines and failed to help him work on improving by sending him home. Having the extra year of control only benefits the Twins if Buxton becomes a very good player.

All I am saying here is I don't think that this was the best strategy if the goal is to help to help Buxton become the best player possible.

 

I'm not going to look at a month of time and think it was crippling length of time for a player who is three years developed. 

 

Teams routinely send home younger prospects in September who haven't had a year of development.

 

Why do they do that? 

 

 

[jokin]

 

All I am saying here is I don't think that this was the best strategy if the goal is to help to help Buxton become the best player possible.

 

Are you factoring in "Reality Check Wake Up Call" as possibly a better strategic alternative in order to kick-start Buxton's career in becoming the best player possible?

 

If Buck isn't spending a lot of off-season time on self-reflection and actualizing a plan on improving his plate approach and mitigating his tendency towards injury/migraines, he's destined to be added to the long line of incredibly talented 1st round busts.

 

I think he can still turn this thing around, The wake-up call was the first time in his career he wasn't given the benefit of the doubt and just thrown into the lineup because he was available to play.

[jokin]

 

 

 

Why do they do that? 

 

I have a sneaking suspicion.

 

I'm guessing Rocco and Buck have been in frequent contact in the last 2 months. And that dividends will result from their interactions. And I'll go further out on a limb and predict Buxton is in the final group for 2019 Comeback Player of the Year.

[old nurse]

 

Are you factoring in "Reality Check Wake Up Call" as possibly a better strategic alternative in order to kick-start Buxton's career in becoming the best player possible?

 

If Buck isn't spending a lot of off-season time on self-reflection and actualizing a plan on improving his plate approach and mitigating his tendency towards injury/migraines, he's destined to be added to the long line of incredibly talented 1st round busts.

 

I think he can still turn this thing around, The wake-up call was the first time in his career he wasn't given the benefit of the doubt and just thrown into the lineup because he was available to play.

It is the players fault that he has migraines and can immediately not have them? As it has been a few years that he has had these it is more than reasonable to think that people have worked to control them.

[Major League Ready]

 

Of course development is a part of this . You don't believe a player can't improve after 1000 at bats? But that isn't really the issue. Largely this strategy of the Twins both punished him for getting injured/having migraines and failed to help him work on improving by sending him home. Having the extra year of control only benefits the Twins if Buxton becomes a very good player.

All I am saying here is I don't think that this was the best strategy if the goal is to help to help Buxton become the best player possible.

 

60 ABs for a guy who has had 1000 ABs is going to have a meaningful difference? So much so it's worth of losing an additional year of control? 

 

Last year was also a lost season so him coming back was of no value to the team. Hopefully, this team comes together and they are in contention that final year. Is it not the job of leadership to make decisions that put a contender on the field?

 

Why is it OK for players to always do what is in their best interest but the team is held to a different standard? Are they in the least bit interested in keeping the team together if they can get a little more money in free agency? 

 

Players are all too anxious to flee at the first opportunity. Dozier could not wait to be a free agent. I am with Riverbrian. We should be for us (team) first. I will take the extra year if I can get it.

[ewen21]

 

 

 

Players are all too anxious to flee at the first opportunity. Dozier could not wait to be a free agent. I am with Riverbrian. We should be for us (team) first. I will take the extra year if I can get it.

He said he wanted to be a Twin for his entire career one sentence after he said he was not on the same page with them. I wish he would have just taken the high road.  He was an event to help sick kids at a children's hospital.  Couldn't he have easily said, "Today is about the kids.  I will see you guys in Fort Myers.  Take care"

 

He was that bothered by what went down.  I get that, but he at least take ownership and express disappointment in his own play?  If he wants to get mad then he ought to watch those at bats from the first 12 games before he went on the shelf.  Plenty there to keep him "pissed"

 

Wouldn't it be nice if he got through April hitting .250 instead of .150?

 

[Jim Hahn]

I'm not going to look at a month of time and think it was crippling length of time for a player who is three years developed. 

 

Teams routinely send home younger prospects in September who haven't had a year of development.

 

Why do they do that?

 

Teams also routinely send players to the Arizonia fall league in October. Why do they do that? Often because they have lost time to injuries. I am not claiming that this strategy will cripple his development or that it matters if he is pissed off or even that manipulating service time is a bad strategy. What I am saying is the best strategy is to help Buxton to be the best player he can be. I think that up to 100 more at bats, time with major league coaches, swings against major league pitchers, all of that, would of been greater benefit to the team than sending him home.

 

Also and finally, I am not sure that the benefit of having an extra year of control is greater than those benefits. You and others disagree. That is fine, I am done debating. The damage,if there is damage is done.

[Riverbrian]

 

It could be the pivotal decision of this front office. I am going to assume that they had little hope of an extension after attempting negotiations last winter. It certainly wouldn't be a surprise that a talented player coming off a good season is advised not to engage in extension negotiations.

 

Without question this decision did not sit well with anyone in the clubhouse. It could turn out that this season is rocky and they have difficulty with the roster. If it carries through to a poor season the Twins will need to clean out the front office. The additional year of service time will be to the benefit of the Twins and the next leadership. 

 

The safer short term decision would have been to call Buxton up September 1. Our leadership is in it for the long term. I hope they are right on this one.

 

I just can't attach that much drama to it. 

 

I've never been in a major league clubhouse. But, it's still a typical employer/employee environment I assume. 

 

They just can't be that emotionally fragile that Buxton bleeds over to everyone in the room and now they are all under performing like matches in a matchbox after one catches fire. . 

 

They have advisors/agents who explain it's a business and if they don't have that... they learn it's a business every time they watch a player/friend/co-worker get cut, sent down to the minors or traded. 

 

I understand that some of the players may not have liked the decision and some of the players stand in full support of Byron Buxton but it can't mean that they are going to throw their own career away over it.

 

They can't be that fragile. It can't work that way because clubhouses would be broken in pieces across the MLB landscape. 

 

I'd imagine there are varying to degrees of selfishness to team first attitudes in the dug out just like our workplaces and I believe feeling like you can win or not is the ultimate key to keeping a clubhouse attitude the way you want it or don't want it. 

 

I really think it comes down to... Did we piss Buxton off? Maybe. Will he get over it? He better for his sake.  

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I just can't attach that much drama to it.

 

I've never been in a major league clubhouse. But, it's still a typical employer/employee environment I assume.

 

They just can't be that emotionally fragile that Buxton bleeds over to everyone in the room and now they are all under performing like matches in a matchbox after one catches fire. .

 

They have advisors/agents who explain it's a business and if they don't have that... they learn it's a business every time they watch a player/friend/co-worker get cut, sent down to the minors or traded.

 

I understand that some of the players may not have liked the decision and some of the players stand in full support of Byron Buxton but it can't mean that they are going to throw their own career away over it.

 

They can't be that fragile. It can't work that way because clubhouses would be broken in pieces across the MLB landscape.

 

I'd imagine there are varying to degrees of selfishness to team first attitudes in the dug out just like our workplaces and I believe feeling like you can win or not is the ultimate key to keeping a clubhouse attitude the way you want it or don't want it.

 

I really think it comes down to... Did we piss Buxton off? Maybe. Will he get over it? He better for his sake.

 

why would you assume that?

 

I feel you are being deliberately obtuse here. Please view the Buxton move in context. The word fragile doesn't belong here. In the offseason, the front office brought in a bunch of mercenary free agents (Levine's word, not mine) who cost the team some important games early in the season. In July, the front office traded their most popular player when the players felt they were finally making a rally in the standings (indeed, had won four straight games). Escobar's teammates saw the trade announced on the ESPN ticker. Dozier was traded days later. In August, Fernando Rodney was traded, prompting Ervin Santana to sound off against the front office, in turn prompting many fans to ridicule Santana for it (where do you stand on that one, by the way).

 

All of that came before Buxton was snubbed.

 

 

Edit: hoping that didn't come off as too harsh against the poster I quoted!

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I have a sneaking suspicion.

 

I'm guessing Rocco and Buck have been in frequent contact in the last 2 months. And that dividends will result from their interactions. And I'll go further out on a limb and predict Buxton is in the final group for 2019 Comeback Player of the Year.

 

I like your optimism... well said on the previous post too. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

All of that came before Buxton was snubbed.
 

 

I'm not sure I can agree.  As a matter of fact, this thread has hit 12 pages... a lot of people don't agree. Buxton earned that... like it or not. 

[Riverbrian]

 

why would you assume that?

I feel you are being deliberately obtuse here. Please view the Buxton move in context. The word fragile doesn't belong here. In the offseason, the front office brought in a bunch of mercenary free agents (Levine's word, not mine) who cost the team some important games early in the season. In July, the front office traded their most popular player when the players felt they were finally making a rally in the standings (indeed, had won four straight games). Escobar's teammates saw the trade announced on the ESPN ticker. Dozier was traded days later. In August, Fernando Rodney was traded, prompting Ervin Santana to sound off against the front office, in turn prompting many fans to ridicule Santana for it (where do you stand on that one, by the way).

All of that came before Buxton was snubbed.


Edit: hoping that didn't come off as too harsh against the poster I quoted!

 

Ok I've gone from Hyprocritical to Obtuse. 

 

Wonderful

 

Deliberately? Absolutely. My participation in this discussion is intentional and thought through. 

 

Obtuse? Well that's gonna be in the eye of the beholder. If you agree with me... my comments are not annoyingly insensitive or stupid... If you disagree with me... Well I suppose so. 

 

But please keep in mind from the other side of the fence. The very second you type and post that I'm being Deliberately Obstuse. You become that yourself by attaching it to me when all we have is a difference of opinion. 

 

Carrying on in response to your post. 

 

"In the offseason, the front office brought in a bunch of mercenary free agents (Levine's word, not mine) who cost the team some important games early in the season".

 

When people read a quote from someone... they take what they believe and attach that quote to what they believe... they mold it to fit the direction of their personal narrative.  

 

The truth is, you (and I) have no idea where the genesis of that quote came from or the context. Is Lavine in the locker room taking the temperature of the atmosphere by hand or relying upon information from others? Is he taking a quote from a fired manager when asked what is going wrong and then repeating it? Does it mean he's right or wrong? In the end it's a paragraph that probably needs a couple of chapters to express. 

 

When someone asks you what happened? Weather it's Lavine being asked that question by Falvey or Pohlad or St. Peter. Or If it's Lavine being asked that by Aaron Gleeman for public consumption. Or if it's Paul Molitor being asked that question by his superiors or a fan in the supermarket. .

 

The one answer you can't give is this: I Don't Know.  

 

My strong assumption is this: They don't know. If they knew... We'd win all the time. 

 

When you ask the President of the United States of America, The General Manager of the Minnesota Twins, The sales director of a banana wholesaler or your 10 year child what happened. That's when the excuses come out because they can't say I don't know. Providing an answer buys you time and a moment of peace, saying I don't know, creates the exact opposite.  

 

You can't condense the complexity required to provide that answer. If you want to drill down on the complexity comprehensively, Aaron Gleeman wouldn't have been able to ask a second question because of the sure length of the answer to the first question. Was he talking about Lynn and Morrison specifically? Did he mean two players took us down? Was it every player with a expiring contract? Does the list include players like Sano and Buxton who don't have an expiring contract? 

 

I read the quote... I dismissed it immediately... I didn't say to myself "Oh Good, That's all figured out, I'll book my world series hotel now". I recognized it as an excuse in the same class of excuse when I ask someone what happened and they start talking about the economy being down so nobody is buying at the moment.  

 

You are just doing what everyone (including me) does with insufficient information. We mold it into our own personal narrative, because that's how the information can best serve us. I'm no hypocrite... I do the same thing because we believe what we believe. 

 

"In July, the front office traded their most popular player when the players felt they were finally making a rally in the standings (indeed, had won four straight games). Escobar's teammates saw the trade announced on the ESPN ticker. Dozier was traded days later". 

 

The Twins were 49-57 at the end of July when the Dozier trade capped off the flurry. After the flurry of moves, the Twins were 29-27. That's a better winning percentage. I wonder why they didn't make moves sooner. Did the clubhouse atmosphere improve after the trade was announced on ESPN surprising Escobar or did they start collectively playing players who played collectively better? Could this be part of the context that created the excuse offered by Thad Lavine when asked by Aaron Gleeman? We traded off all the expiring contracts and we played above .500 baseball afterwards so Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

 

Personally, I doubt it was that simple but I do believe as part of my personal narrative, the team started playing better when they started playing players who were playing better or the players started playing better. 

 

BTW... Same thing in 2017. We traded our closer Kintzler and shipped Garcia to the Yankees shortly after acquiring him at the deadline. The players were quoted as being disappointed. We were 50-53 at the time. We went 35-22 over the final two months. So what are we talking about here? 

 

"In August, Fernando Rodney was traded, prompting Ervin Santana to sound off against the front office, in turn prompting many fans to ridicule Santana for it (where do you stand on that one, by the way)".

 

How do I stand on that one? He had a microphone in front of his face and he expressed an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. This is why the P.R.department urges all players to use tried and tested cliches. Were his expressed feelings responsible for his 22 innings of an 8.03 ERA and 1.62 WHIP? The comments came after a loss to the Tigers in a game that he started. The team was 53-62 after that loss. They went 25-22 after the comment. Did the comment have anything to do with a better record afterwards? 

 

How do I stand on that one? Ervin Santana is not part of the front office.What does the acquisition of Dakota Chalmers do for him? What does the acquisition of Luke Raley do for him? He needs to be concerned about beating the Tigers and he failed to do that on this particular night. He needs to let the front office do the job they were hired to do. He does the job that he was hired to do. There is a clear separation of responsibility, Kevin Gorg asked a question and he expressed his feelings. I don't blame Gorg, Santana, the front office or anyone and I don't believe it proves anything other than... Santana didn't like the deals made and his viewpoint is going to be different than mine, yours and the front office. 

 

It was September 1st when the news broke that Buxton was not being brought back to the majors. 

 

The team was 63-72 when the announcement was made. They went 15-12 afterwards. 

 

Are we talking cause and effect here or are we simply talking about players not being happy. 

 

I know I wasn't happy and as a result, I'm not in the mood to tolerate poor performance from the players, the manager or the front office anymore and I want accountability. I don't listen to any of the excuses being offered by Falvey or Lavine because they are typical responses to direct questions begging an explanation for something that didn't go as planned.

 

This is the professional ranks, there is long line of players who want the job that they have. Perform or the lose the job. There are people who are doing dirty work in the front offices around baseball who'd love to have Falvey or Lavine's job. Perform or lose the job. Same thing for the manager, the coaches and scouts. 

 

I'm not going to fight for Byron Buxton. Byron Buxton needs to fight for himself and he needs to produce or get out of the way so someone else can produce in his absence. I was miserable watching Buxton, Sano, Morrison, Wilson and Dozier because they were not being held accountable. I was much happier watching Cave, Austin and Astundillo. And I'm standing here today saying to Cave, Austin and Astundillo. You are going to have to do it again. 

[jorgenswest]

I have no idea how the clubhouse will respond. I don't know how Buxton will respond. We won't be able to measure how this decision impacts the 2019 season. It is a critical year for Buxton and Falvey. If the Twins aren't buyers at the deadline, Falvey needs to be removed. If Buxton can't manage 2 WAR, the Twins need to look elsewhere for a CF.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Riverbrian, I am a million miles away from your position but will take that as a thoughtful reply. So thank you.

 

As far as the win-loss records you kept reciting, I think there's a pretty strong answer there: the Twins piled up a lot of wins in September against divisional teams who were intentionally playing lesser players in order to improve their draft position in 2019 (or for whatever reason--not necessarily that). It's reasonable to think those games would have been won with the players Falvey and Levine traded away, too.

[Don Walcott]

 

I just can't attach that much drama to it. 

 

I've never been in a major league clubhouse. But, it's still a typical employer/employee environment I assume. 

 

They just can't be that emotionally fragile that Buxton bleeds over to everyone in the room and now they are all under performing like matches in a matchbox after one catches fire. . 

 

They have advisors/agents who explain it's a business and if they don't have that... they learn it's a business every time they watch a player/friend/co-worker get cut, sent down to the minors or traded. 

 

I understand that some of the players may not have liked the decision and some of the players stand in full support of Byron Buxton but it can't mean that they are going to throw their own career away over it.

 

They can't be that fragile. It can't work that way because clubhouses would be broken in pieces across the MLB landscape. 

 

I'd imagine there are varying to degrees of selfishness to team first attitudes in the dug out just like our workplaces and I believe feeling like you can win or not is the ultimate key to keeping a clubhouse attitude the way you want it or don't want it. 

 

I really think it comes down to... Did we piss Buxton off? Maybe. Will he get over it? He better for his sake.  

Get over it? Again with the diva assumptions?

 

He can both continue to be pissed at the Twins FO and play well. Those are not mutually exclusive. And I see no evidence for the assumption that because he said he's pissed that he's also so fragile that he won't be able to play well until he "gets over it."  Obviously, Kris Bryant has gone out and performed despite continuing to be pissed at the Cubs FO.

 

I also have not seen anyone say that the rest of the clubhouse will stop performing well because they support Buxton and also are fragile. These are straw man arguments.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I have no idea how the clubhouse will respond. I don't know how Buxton will respond. We won't be able to measure how this decision impacts the 2019 season. It is a critical year for Buxton and Falvey. If the Twins aren't buyers at the deadline, Falvey needs to be removed. If Buxton can't manage 2 WAR, the Twins need to look elsewhere for a CF.

I would be ready to say that about both Buxton and the front office in 2020 or certainly 2021.

[ewen21]

Wasn't Buxton the one said he didn't want to sugar coat?  Well, for now on that needs to be the policy when it comes to his hitting.

[Don Walcott]

I"m amazed at the pessimism around Buxton. Migraines and a broken toe. Why would we fault him for 2018? Why wouldn't we expect him to be as good as he was in 2017? Remember, when he got MVP votes, the platinum glove and got caught stealing once (when he overslid the bag)? The potential replacements for him are not even in the same universe of upside. Why wouldn't we support him and support the team that hands him the center field job that he so obviously deserves when he's healthy? If you want this team to continue to be mediocre, put Jake Cave in there instead of Buxton. That might just convince me to stop watching this team.

[Riverbrian]

 

Riverbrian, I am a million miles away from your position but will take that as a thoughtful reply. So thank you.

As far as the win-loss records you kept reciting, I think there's a pretty strong answer there: the Twins piled up a lot of wins in September against divisional teams who were intentionally playing lesser players in order to improve their draft position in 2019. It's reasonable to think those games would have been won with the players Falvey and Levine traded away, too.

 

It's Ok to disagree. It's ok to be a million miles away. We are all dancing in the dark here. 

 

I hate to say it, but the answer you provide isn't strong and no different than what Thad Lavine provided to Aaron Gleeman.

 

Also, the won-loss records that I recite are not strong either.

 

The story can't be condensed into a paragraph. Each game, is a separate set of small sample sizes, bad hops, bloops and blasts,  just plain stuff that determines the eventual scoreboard at each conclusion. The other team you play is absolutely a factor that prevents you from trying to lay blame entirely on the shoulders of your team but again, trying to be comprehensive is going to end up with a really, really long post or a real long question and answer session between Gleeman and Lavine. 

 

I simply posted the records to produce a question mark over any thought by Lavine, you or anyone that the clubhouse stuff is prove positive of anything. 

 

I believe in atmosphere in the context of any team. But, I don't believe that it is easily controlled or produced and trying to manage it is like getting cats to walk in a parade. Winning will get the cats in a parade, losing will get the fingers pointing. I believe in order to win, you must produce. If you play players who are not producing, you don't win and the clubhouse culture will suffer. 

 

But then again... that's just a paragraph. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

 

 

I also have not seen anyone say that the rest of the clubhouse will stop performing well because they support Buxton and also are fragile. These are straw man arguments.

 

 

 

Without question this decision did not sit well with anyone in the clubhouse. It could turn out that this season is rocky and they have difficulty with the roster. If it carries through to a poor season the Twins will need to clean out the front office. The additional year of service time will be to the benefit of the Twins and the next leadership. 

 

 

 

You missed the post I was responding to, that led to my post, that led to you responding to my post and calling it a strawman argument. 

 

I fully admit that I used the word "Fragile". 

 

Otherwise, I believe I was following the chain of the discussion. 

 

Correct me where I'm wrong. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I have no idea how the clubhouse will respond. I don't know how Buxton will respond. We won't be able to measure how this decision impacts the 2019 season. It is a critical year for Buxton and Falvey. If the Twins aren't buyers at the deadline, Falvey needs to be removed. If Buxton can't manage 2 WAR, the Twins need to look elsewhere for a CF.

 

This post I absolutely agree with. 

 

Accountability for all is all I'm asking. If Falvey and Lavine can't produce a winner, we need to find some people who can. If Buxton can't hit, we need to find someone who can.  

 

I'm done watching players walk past the lineup card without checking if they are on it and I'm done watching management allow it. 

 

Produce or get out of the way. 

[Don Walcott]

I still don't see where anyone has said that either Buxton or anyone else is likely to play worse because of being pissed at the FO. Some people have said that Buxton could have used more ML at bats to help him going into 2019. But nobody said that he won't play well because of the decision. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that he'll play better because of the decision motivating him. And I haven't seen anyone say the rest of the team will play worse out of sympathy towards him, or whatever it is you were trying to address.

[Riverbrian]

 

I still don't see where anyone has said that either Buxton or anyone else is likely to play worse because of being pissed at the FO. Some people have said that Buxton could have used more ML at bats to help him going into 2019. But nobody said that he won't play well because of the decision. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that he'll play better because of the decision motivating him. And I haven't seen anyone say the rest of the team will play worse out of sympathy towards him, or whatever it is you were trying to address.

 

Don

 

Look Below

 

This is what I was addressing. 

 

 

Without question this decision did not sit well with anyone in the clubhouse. It could turn out that this season is rocky and they have difficulty with the roster. If it carries through to a poor season the Twins will need to clean out the front office. The additional year of service time will be to the benefit of the Twins and the next leadership. 

 

 

 

Jorgenswest is a very smart guy, he's earned my respect, he replied back with a clarification and it's all good. He has no idea nor do I.