Dozier v Forsythe

Doomtints · August 13, 2018

Even the least interesting of baseball players have good streaks from time to time.

Forsythe will regress back to his norm, and no one will be fooled enough to trade for him.

He can hit lefties OK, so he could be good to keep around as a pinch hitter / late innings defensive backup ... assuming the Twins ever think in these terms (I don't think they have since Gardy left).

Platoon · August 13, 2018

I don't know if it's Forsythe, EE, Adrianza, or Nunez, but I do know I would have my rear end covered in regards to Sano. He hasn't proven a thing to me so far. And sooner than later someone will have to play third, he doesn't seem to have the focus for it.

Doomtints · August 13, 2018

Lynn was bad for his first six to eight starts and then largely turned it around. Logan Forsythe has been terrible for the past two years. In the past six seasons he’s had two good years (#3 and #4) and been pretty terrible the other four. He’ll be 32 next season.

There’s nothing Logan Forsythe can do down the stretch that makes me want to bring him back. I hope he hits well enough to be traded for a lottery ticket.

Until this year he was very good at hitting lefties. Likely he will go back to hitting lefties very well should his career continue. He could be the Twins' answer to the LOOGY, assuming Molitor ever thinks strategically like that. He can also play defense well.

Is he the future? Nah. Could he be the veteran IF backup, late innings defensive replacement, and LOOGY specialist? Sure.

ashbury · August 13, 2018

I don't know if it's Forsythe, EE, Adrianza, or Nunez, but I do know I would have my rear end covered in regards to Sano. He hasn't proven a thing to me so far. And sooner than later someone will have to play third, he doesn't seem to have the focus for it.

If focus at third is the issue then maybe Ehire isn't your man either.

Platoon · August 13, 2018

If focus at third is the issue then maybe Ehire isn't your man either.

Valid point. Not an excuse but I wonder how many games Andrainza has at third. Yes, he should have tagged the base. I should clarify one thing. When I said focus in regards to Sano, I refer to dropped pop ups, and kicked two hop GB's. And then a great dive and throw on the next play.

ashbury · August 13, 2018

Valid point.

Not really. I'm just harping on the most recent play at third in my short memory. Ehire will never make that mistake again.

I hope.

I mean, he must have forgotten how many outs there were, or who was forced. How many outs did he think he would record by throwing to first, versus merely getting the lead runner?

It's not something that should dog him forever. But I'm not ready to let it go yet.

Riverbrian · August 14, 2018

I would guess anything with Forsythe next year depends on the readiness of Gordon. And he's so up and down it's hard to know what to think on him. But he should be up next year at some point I'd imagine.

Exactly

Flexibility will be important to ensure that Gordon has a landing spot if he starts getting the job done. Teams have to prepare for that possibility.

If you sign Dozier to play 2B next year.

Now you have Polanco and Dozier for SS and 2B and that's fine but where is Gordon going to play if he starts knocking on the door.

If the Twins handle it like they always do. Gordon will remain in Rochester knocking on that door that will only be opened if Dozier or Polanco get hurt... and the Twins have proven that they will stick with Dozier through the slump months so it will take injury while Gordon hits .390 in Rochester. They will not cut Dozier to make room... it won't happen.

If you sign a player with flexibility to play 2B. If they sign Escobar or Lowrie. If Gordon knocks on the door... you can let him in by moving Escobar or Lowrie to 3B. Sano can be moved from 3B to 1B to accommodate that move.

With Dozier and Polanco... Gordon only gets called up if 2B or SS gets hurt. If he gets called up without injury to those two. He will ride the bench while Paul goes with his guys or they will have to crash course Gordon into a OF or 3B position just to get him playing time.

With Flexibility and Polanco... Gordon can be the first call up if 2B, SS, 3B and 1B get hurt. This gives him a job quicker once he starts knocking on the door.

Consider this type of roster and the possibilities.

1B/3B - Sano, (Machado or Donaldson or Daniel Murphy or impact 1B or 3B acquired in trade), Tyler Austin or Matt Adams or Marwin Gonzalez)

2B/SS - Polanco, (Escobar or Lowrie or Harrison), (Forsythe or Nunez).

OF - Rosario, Kepler, Cave or (stronger CF acquired via trade... Let say Pham but whoever) and Buxton.

You are prepared for almost everything with a roster like this.

Using the bolded players for example purposes... Here are your options.

1B - Murphy, Sano, Gonzalez, Kepler

2B - Escobar, Forsythe, Murphy, Gonzalez, Rosario?

3B - Sano, Murphy, Gonzalez, Escobar, Forsythe, Rosario?

SS - Polanco, Escobar, Gonzalez, Forsythe?

OF - Rosario, Kepler, Pham, Buxton, Gonzalez, Escobar

Gordon can be the first called up with a need at any position because of the flexibility.

You have the DH to feed the overflow of awesome performance from all in a grouping.

This how bullet proof begins. This is how you prevent 2018 from happening. You don't have to absorb Logan Morrison or Byron Buxton or anyone with this. If anybody doesn't or can't perform... you have options. Nobody can complain about Robbie Grossman or Ryan LaMarre just contributing nothing while the starters contribute nothing because the manager is locked into a chosen starting 9 come hell or high water.

And the depth includes Gordon and Wade plus Cave in Rochester waiting for the phone to ring. This is how bulletproof begins.

Also you can still upgrade even if all the holes are filled with this method. You can still rent a superstar in July... Any Superstar... because you can move players around to accomodate the arrival of the superstar.

This is so much better than saying... We got Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS, Dozier at 2B, Mauer at 1B and Morrison at DH we are set and then dying the minute one of those players gets hurt or hits .184 with a manager who will not play Gregorio Petit.

It would take a Manager who can manage this roster. We may not have that at the moment.

Winston Smith · August 14, 2018

Exactly

Flexibility will be important to ensure that Gordon has a landing spot if he starts getting the job done. Teams have to prepare for that possibility.

If you sign Dozier to play 2B next year.

Now you have Polanco and Dozier for SS and 2B and that's fine but where is Gordon going to play if he starts knocking on the door.

If the Twins handle it like they always do. Gordon will remain in Rochester knocking on that door that will only be opened if Dozier or Polanco get hurt... and the Twins have proven that they will stick with Dozier through the slump months so it will take injury while Gordon hits .390 in Rochester. They will not cut Dozier to make room... it won't happen.

If you sign a player with flexibility to play 2B. If they sign Escobar or Lowrie. If Gordon knocks on the door... you can let him in by moving Escobar or Lowrie to 3B. Sano can be moved from 3B to 1B to accommodate that move.

With Dozier and Polanco... Gordon only gets called up if 2B or SS gets hurt. If he gets called up without injury to those two. He will ride the bench while Paul goes with his guys or they will have to crash course Gordon into a OF or 3B position just to get him playing time.

With Flexibility and Polanco... Gordon can be the first call up if 2B, SS, 3B and 1B get hurt. This gives him a job quicker once he starts knocking on the door.

Consider this type of roster and the possibilities.
1B/3B - Sano, (Machado or Donaldson or Daniel Murphy or impact 1B or 3B acquired in trade), Tyler Austin or Matt Adams or Marwin Gonzalez)
2B/SS - Polanco, (Escobar or Lowrie or Harrison), (Forsythe or Nunez).
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Cave or (stronger CF acquired via trade... Let say Pham but whoever) and Buxton.

You are prepared for almost everything with a roster like this.

Using the bolded players for example purposes... Here are your options.

1B - Murphy, Sano, Gonzalez, Kepler
2B - Escobar, Forsythe, Murphy, Gonzalez, Rosario?
3B - Sano, Murphy, Gonzalez, Escobar, Forsythe, Rosario?
SS - Polanco, Escobar, Gonzalez, Forsythe?
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Pham, Buxton, Gonzalez, Escobar

Gordon can be the first called up with a need at any position because of the flexibility.

You have the DH to feed the overflow of awesome performance from all in a grouping.

This how bullet proof begins. This is how you prevent 2018 from happening. You don't have to absorb Logan Morrison or Byron Buxton or anyone with this. If anybody doesn't or can't perform... you have options. Nobody can complain about Robbie Grossman or Ryan LaMarre just contributing nothing while the starters contribute nothing because the manager is locked into a chosen starting 9 come hell or high water.

And the depth includes Gordon and Wade plus Cave in Rochester waiting for the phone to ring. This is how bulletproof begins.

Also you can still upgrade even if all the holes are filled with this method. You can still rent a superstar in July... Any Superstar... because you can move players around to accomodate the arrival of the superstar.

This is so much better than saying... We got Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS, Dozier at 2B, Mauer at 1B and Morrison at DH we are set and then dying the minute one of those players gets hurt or hits .184 with a manager who will not play Gregorio Petit.

It would take a Manager who can manage this roster. We may not have that at the moment.

That was exhausting.

Platoon · August 14, 2018

Exactly

Flexibility will be important to ensure that Gordon has a landing spot if he starts getting the job done. Teams have to prepare for that possibility.

If you sign Dozier to play 2B next year.

Now you have Polanco and Dozier for SS and 2B and that's fine but where is Gordon going to play if he starts knocking on the door.

If the Twins handle it like they always do. Gordon will remain in Rochester knocking on that door that will only be opened if Dozier or Polanco get hurt... and the Twins have proven that they will stick with Dozier through the slump months so it will take injury while Gordon hits .390 in Rochester. They will not cut Dozier to make room... it won't happen.

If you sign a player with flexibility to play 2B. If they sign Escobar or Lowrie. If Gordon knocks on the door... you can let him in by moving Escobar or Lowrie to 3B. Sano can be moved from 3B to 1B to accommodate that move.

With Dozier and Polanco... Gordon only gets called up if 2B or SS gets hurt. If he gets called up without injury to those two. He will ride the bench while Paul goes with his guys or they will have to crash course Gordon into a OF or 3B position just to get him playing time.

With Flexibility and Polanco... Gordon can be the first call up if 2B, SS, 3B and 1B get hurt. This gives him a job quicker once he starts knocking on the door.

Consider this type of roster and the possibilities.
1B/3B - Sano, (Machado or Donaldson or Daniel Murphy or impact 1B or 3B acquired in trade), Tyler Austin or Matt Adams or Marwin Gonzalez)
2B/SS - Polanco, (Escobar or Lowrie or Harrison), (Forsythe or Nunez).
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Cave or (stronger CF acquired via trade... Let say Pham but whoever) and Buxton.

You are prepared for almost everything with a roster like this.

Using the bolded players for example purposes... Here are your options.

1B - Murphy, Sano, Gonzalez, Kepler
2B - Escobar, Forsythe, Murphy, Gonzalez, Rosario?
3B - Sano, Murphy, Gonzalez, Escobar, Forsythe, Rosario?
SS - Polanco, Escobar, Gonzalez, Forsythe?
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Pham, Buxton, Gonzalez, Escobar

Gordon can be the first called up with a need at any position because of the flexibility.

You have the DH to feed the overflow of awesome performance from all in a grouping.

This how bullet proof begins. This is how you prevent 2018 from happening. You don't have to absorb Logan Morrison or Byron Buxton or anyone with this. If anybody doesn't or can't perform... you have options. Nobody can complain about Robbie Grossman or Ryan LaMarre just contributing nothing while the starters contribute nothing because the manager is locked into a chosen starting 9 come hell or high water.

And the depth includes Gordon and Wade plus Cave in Rochester waiting for the phone to ring. This is how bulletproof begins.

Also you can still upgrade even if all the holes are filled with this method. You can still rent a superstar in July... Any Superstar... because you can move players around to accomodate the arrival of the superstar.

This is so much better than saying... We got Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS, Dozier at 2B, Mauer at 1B and Morrison at DH we are set and then dying the minute one of those players gets hurt or hits .184 with a manager who will not play Gregorio Petit.

It would take a Manager who can manage this roster. We may not have that at the moment.

"It would take a Manager who can manage this roster. We may not have that at the moment."And herein lies the problem. I just get the feeling the FO is now ready to put their own imprint on this team. (For better or worse). And I doubt it will be standard Twins operating fare. They were forced to keep Molitor, making any change in their operating philosophy moot. The idiotic MOY award complicated things. Sometimes the only way to make a change work is to allow the existing structure to fail, thus freeing you to make your move. I know that I am reading a lot into this from the outside, but this trading deadline wasn't the work of a stand pat FO. I just get the feeling that there was no way the current roster could be tweaked into a winner.

ChrisKnutson · August 14, 2018

Assuming he opts out of his contract, I think Elvis Andrus should be our top priority this offseason. If not, J-Hay would be more than serviceable.

Squirrel · August 14, 2018

Never thought this would be necessary, but I'm going to post periodic updates comparing the two the rest of the year. Forsythe doesn't have Dozier's power, but he hasn't exactly been a waste of a roster spot since he got here, which I think most of us expected from him.

If Forsythe can even remotely maintain this level of production (obviously the .484 BABIP won't last), I think 1.) Twins have to try to shop him before the deadline, just in case someone throws something our way and 2.) if he sticks around, they have to consider bringing him back next year on a team friendly deal to bridge the gap until Gordon figures things out and shows he is ready for The Show.

Am I crazy here?

forsythe.JPG

I don’t think you’re crazy for wanting to track the progress of the two, go for it. But I think you’re crazy to think this thread will stay on track. Somehow we’re back to discussing position flexibility ... how did that happen?

(Yes, that's a gentle moderator rebuke to TRY and keep it to topic, impossible as that will turn out to be because we have another 6 weeks left to play. That's a long time to keep it stricly to topic, but let's at least wait until page 10 or so before meandering.)

ThejacKmp · August 14, 2018

Not even if he hit .800 with 50 HR?

Ha. I think if he hit .800 with 50 in two months some other team would scoop him up. And then he'd be suspended for juicing. And bribing pitchers.

ThejacKmp · August 14, 2018

Until this year he was very good at hitting lefties. Likely he will go back to hitting lefties very well should his career continue. He could be the Twins' answer to the LOOGY, assuming Molitor ever thinks strategically like that. He can also play defense well.

Is he the future? Nah. Could he be the veteran IF backup, late innings defensive replacement, and LOOGY specialist? Sure.

Yeah but who has a 32 year old one of those? That's a job for a young guy. He makes Adrianza seem young.

His defense is average, he can't play shortstop, and he's 32 so that isn't trending up. I see no reason he'd be useful in this era of three man benches.

ThejacKmp · August 14, 2018

I don't remember anyone wanting him when the trade was made. He's been really bad for nearly 2 years but in a very SSS he gets hot and now they should bring him back?
I vote no, please aim a little higher this winter.

Or actually lower. He's 32 and makes no sense, just whatever name value he has as a vet. If you're going to get a utility guy, try to go find another Adrianza or 2014 Escobar who is 26/27 and might be ready to develop into something.

Brock Beauchamp · August 15, 2018

Exactly

Flexibility will be important to ensure that Gordon has a landing spot if he starts getting the job done. Teams have to prepare for that possibility.

If you sign Dozier to play 2B next year.

Now you have Polanco and Dozier for SS and 2B and that's fine but where is Gordon going to play if he starts knocking on the door.

If the Twins handle it like they always do. Gordon will remain in Rochester knocking on that door that will only be opened if Dozier or Polanco get hurt... and the Twins have proven that they will stick with Dozier through the slump months so it will take injury while Gordon hits .390 in Rochester. They will not cut Dozier to make room... it won't happen.

If you sign a player with flexibility to play 2B. If they sign Escobar or Lowrie. If Gordon knocks on the door... you can let him in by moving Escobar or Lowrie to 3B. Sano can be moved from 3B to 1B to accommodate that move.

With Dozier and Polanco... Gordon only gets called up if 2B or SS gets hurt. If he gets called up without injury to those two. He will ride the bench while Paul goes with his guys or they will have to crash course Gordon into a OF or 3B position just to get him playing time.

With Flexibility and Polanco... Gordon can be the first call up if 2B, SS, 3B and 1B get hurt. This gives him a job quicker once he starts knocking on the door.

Consider this type of roster and the possibilities.
1B/3B - Sano, (Machado or Donaldson or Daniel Murphy or impact 1B or 3B acquired in trade), Tyler Austin or Matt Adams or Marwin Gonzalez)
2B/SS - Polanco, (Escobar or Lowrie or Harrison), (Forsythe or Nunez).
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Cave or (stronger CF acquired via trade... Let say Pham but whoever) and Buxton.

You are prepared for almost everything with a roster like this.

Using the bolded players for example purposes... Here are your options.

1B - Murphy, Sano, Gonzalez, Kepler
2B - Escobar, Forsythe, Murphy, Gonzalez, Rosario?
3B - Sano, Murphy, Gonzalez, Escobar, Forsythe, Rosario?
SS - Polanco, Escobar, Gonzalez, Forsythe?
OF - Rosario, Kepler, Pham, Buxton, Gonzalez, Escobar

Gordon can be the first called up with a need at any position because of the flexibility.

You have the DH to feed the overflow of awesome performance from all in a grouping.

This how bullet proof begins. This is how you prevent 2018 from happening. You don't have to absorb Logan Morrison or Byron Buxton or anyone with this. If anybody doesn't or can't perform... you have options. Nobody can complain about Robbie Grossman or Ryan LaMarre just contributing nothing while the starters contribute nothing because the manager is locked into a chosen starting 9 come hell or high water.

And the depth includes Gordon and Wade plus Cave in Rochester waiting for the phone to ring. This is how bulletproof begins.

Also you can still upgrade even if all the holes are filled with this method. You can still rent a superstar in July... Any Superstar... because you can move players around to accomodate the arrival of the superstar.

This is so much better than saying... We got Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS, Dozier at 2B, Mauer at 1B and Morrison at DH we are set and then dying the minute one of those players gets hurt or hits .184 with a manager who will not play Gregorio Petit.

It would take a Manager who can manage this roster. We may not have that at the moment.

Good post.

One thing about second base is that, while it's an up-the-middle position, it's also usually a dead-end position.

While second is important defensively, if the player had better range, they'd be a shortstop. If they had an arm, they'd probably be a shortstop. If they had both, they'd be a good shortstop.

Occasionally, you'll get a second baseman who can hit and has an arm but third basemen are hard to come by, too. If you have a shortstop with an arm and a bat, you probably don't move him to second base at all, but instead move him to third.

There just aren't many examples of second basemen who ended up there despite their talent to play elsewhere.

Riverbrian · August 15, 2018

Good post.

One thing about second base is that, while it's an up-the-middle position, it's also usually a dead-end position.

While second is important defensively, if the player had better range, they'd be a shortstop. If they had an arm, they'd probably be a shortstop. If they had both, they'd be a good shortstop.

Occasionally, you'll get a second baseman who can hit and has an arm but third basemen are hard to come by, too. If you have a shortstop with an arm and a bat, you probably don't move him to second base at all, but instead move him to third.

There just aren't many examples of second basemen who ended up there despite their talent to play elsewhere.

Agreed but... Because 2nd base is a dead end position. You can can back fill it. Instead of finding 2B that can play elsewhere... Find other positions that can slide into the dead end position.

Escobar is an example of this.

Daniel Murphy brought on board as 1B is an example of being able to dead end back to 2B on occasion.

Also keep in mind that with the shifting... 2B isn't what it was in 1977.

Plus there will also be examples of players moved to the dead end position because of the presence of other players at the other positions. Someone like Forsythe may have been dead ended at 2B because of the presence of Longoria. The Dodgers then played Forsythe at 3B on occasion once he was acquired.

My examples were extreme in total and strictly for example purposes. I don't expect the Twins to go quite as cartoonish as I did but I want the Twins to start considering flexibility hard and start implementing as soon as possible and I want a manager on board with the concept. The Ultimate goal is getting your best bats in the lineup and not having to die with a slumping whoever because that's all they have to choose from at 1B and not having Ryan LaMarre on the roster because nobody assumed he would play unless the world came to an end.

The days of the Tigers moving Castellanos to RF and forgetting that he ever played 3B are soon to be over. In the future... the Castellanos types will play both positions as the team needs change and they are ever changing during the course of every season.

I want the Twins prepped for all possibilities and to get ahead of this curve.

yarnivek1972 · August 15, 2018

I think it is already too late for the Twins to be ahead of the curve. At this point, they need to be sure they don’t get left in the dust, like what happened with analytics under the previous regime.

Riverbrian · August 16, 2018

I think it is already too late for the Twins to be ahead of the curve. At this point, they need to be sure they don’t get left in the dust, like what happened with analytics under the previous regime.

I agree about being left in the dust but this particular curve is still ahead.

USAFChief · August 16, 2018

Agreed but... Because 2nd base is a dead end position. You can can back fill it. Instead of finding 2B that can play elsewhere... Find other positions that can slide into the dead end position.

Escobar is an example of this.
Daniel Murphy brought on board as 1B is an example of being able to dead end back to 2B on occasion.

Also keep in mind that with the shifting... 2B isn't what it was in 1977.

Plus there will also be examples of players moved to the dead end position because of the presence of other players at the other positions. Someone like Forsythe may have been dead ended at 2B because of the presence of Longoria. The Dodgers then played Forsythe at 3B on occasion once he was acquired.

My examples were extreme in total and strictly for example purposes. I don't expect the Twins to go quite as cartoonish as I did but I want the Twins to start considering flexibility hard and start implementing as soon as possible and I want a manager on board with the concept. The Ultimate goal is getting your best bats in the lineup and not having to die with a slumping whoever because that's all they have to choose from at 1B and not having Ryan LaMarre on the roster because nobody assumed he would play unless the world came to an end.

The days of the Tigers moving Castellanos to RF and forgetting that he ever played 3B are soon to be over. In the future... the Castellanos types will play both positions as the team needs change and they are ever changing during the course of every season.

I want the Twins prepped for all possibilities and to get ahead of this curve.

The problem with Ryan LaMarre isn’t a lack of flexibility, the problem is not having a better reserve outfielder than Ryan LaMarre.

You only have a three or four man bench, and one of those is a catcher. Who are you trying to get into the lineup?

Have a better bench. And have some realistic options in Rochester. There is no point moving Rosario to 2nd base just to put Ryan LaMarre in left field. You put your adequate utility infielder at second, and leave as many guys as possible at their best defensive position.

Vanimal46 · August 16, 2018

I generally agree it's easy to fill 2B with failed SS or 3B. Strategically you can back fill it with a player who brings less value on the field. Those conditions can be met if they have another player who's significantly better at their respective position.

Teams still have to play a 2B every game. And it's always better to have a player who's one of the best at their position. The Twins had that advantage in past years with a top 5 2B in the game.

curt1965 · August 16, 2018

The Twins are not going to spend the money for a top 2nd baseman next year, and a top 2nd baseman will never pick Minnesota if he has other suitors. It cracks me up when I see guys saying “just get Machado,”

like that’s a possibility!

My educated guess is that even Escobar will land a contract that is too rich for the Twins. Dozier, too, and I’m not even sure the Twins would want him back. So, with my limited knowledge of his SSS, I wouldn’t be opposed to have Forsythe at 2nd next year. He has skills like the 2nd basemen of 20-30 years ago-little power, decent defensively, and a contact hitter who doesn’t strike out much. Maybe someone like him has little value in the modern game. But it is fun watching him come to bat in scoring opportunities, and not have to pray that he doesn’t strike out.

I was really never a Dozier fan until I looked at ALL of his statistics. Like most good things, I never appreciated him, but I think his skills have significantly eroded. Time for a new era to begin. Forsythe might be a good stop-gap.

akmanak · August 16, 2018

Way to small of a sample size.

curt1965 · August 16, 2018

Forgot to include-great analysis by Brian! One question, if Forsythe (or anyone) is going to play 3rd, who is going to play 2nd? Aren’t you defeating the purpose of flexibility in this case?

Jham · August 16, 2018

The problem with Ryan LaMarre isn’t a lack of flexibility, the problem is not having a better reserve outfielder than Ryan LaMarre.

You only have a three or four man bench, and one of those is a catcher. Who are you trying to get into the lineup?

Have a better bench. And have some realistic options in Rochester. There is no point moving Rosario to 2nd base just to put Ryan LaMarre in left field. You put your adequate utility infielder at second, and leave as many guys as possible at their best defensive position.

Ostensibly, the position flexibility angle makes it easier to upgrade from Ryan LaMarre. Potentially you don't need a LaMarre OR a weak hitting utility infielder. Get the best bench bat you can regardless of position. Rosario then is your utility infielder. Roster spot saved. Money saved. Bench improved. Sunday matinee lineups worth watching.

It's a bit of a catch 22. You need good enough players to make reworking lineups worth it, but position flexibility makes it easier to roster more good players. For instance, Ohtani has 1.2 bWAR in only 9 starts as a pitcher. He has 1.4 bWAR in only 234 PA. Impressive enough without extrapolation for health. BUT you also have to add in the value of the roster spot you're saving by having half of your DH duties covered. It's like constantly having a 26th spot for a fresh reliever, a defense only sub, a 3rd catcher for some reason if you're Gardy...

Platoon · August 16, 2018

I understand the flexibility concept. I also understand how hard it is to explain it using specific players without getting it picked apart. LaMarre being Exhibit One. The secret is having better ball players. But you can't have, as an example two Doziers on the same roster. Only one can play second, the other would have to sit. To me flexibility would be a second catcher who can PH and fill in at 1B. A MI who can legitimately play the OF. This doesn't mean that every game I am running guys all over the field, it means I can expand my pinch hitting options, and that I can keep a roster happier with equitable playing time. It also means that when someone needs a day off or is dinged up, you have an option better than LaMarre or Grossman to fill in. Filling the 25th spot with a "Right Handed OF with Some Power" doesn't leave you much room to maneuver.

Riverbrian · August 16, 2018

The problem with Ryan LaMarre isn’t a lack of flexibility, the problem is not having a better reserve outfielder than Ryan LaMarre.

You only have a three or four man bench, and one of those is a catcher. Who are you trying to get into the lineup?

Have a better bench. And have some realistic options in Rochester. There is no point moving Rosario to 2nd base just to put Ryan LaMarre in left field. You put your adequate utility infielder at second, and leave as many guys as possible at their best defensive position.

In my opinion, these are the only two reasons that Ryan LaMarre would be on any major league roster.

A. The front office believes that he can play everyday in the case of injury or terrible play.

B. The front office doesn't believe that anybody will get injured or play terrible and rostered him with the expectation of not needing him and wasting that roster spot.

So yeah... I'm with you... Get better players.

Riverbrian · August 16, 2018

I generally agree it's easy to fill 2B with failed SS or 3B. Strategically you can back fill it with a player who brings less value on the field. Those conditions can be met if they have another player who's significantly better at their respective position.

Teams still have to play a 2B every game. And it's always better to have a player who's one of the best at their position. The Twins had that advantage in past years with a top 5 2B in the game.

It's isn't always better... Because it didn't go so well this year.

Vanimal46 · August 16, 2018

It's isn't always better... Because it didn't go so well this year.

Yep. Because they have a bunch of other players who are below average or bad compared to players on other teams.

Like I said before, you can certainly back fill a position like 2B. But you better have a top 5 player at their respective position somewhere else on the diamond.

Riverbrian · August 16, 2018

Forgot to include-great analysis by Brian! One question, if Forsythe (or anyone) is going to play 3rd, who is going to play 2nd? Aren’t you defeating the purpose of flexibility in this case?

In my cartoon example a page ago.

I already have Escobar and Polanco along with Forsythe for middle infield.

A. This allows me to move Forsythe over to 3B to get him some playing time if he is earning it.

B. It allows me to move Forsythe over to 3B if Sano has to report to Ft. Myers.

C. It allows me to move Forsythe over to 3B if Gordon is ready to come up.

A. Escobar/Murphy

B. Escobar/Gordon/Murphy

C. Escobar/Gordon/Murphy

Riverbrian · August 16, 2018

Yep. Because they have a bunch of other players who are below average or bad compared to players on other teams.

Like I said before, you can certainly back fill a position like 2B. But you better have a top 5 player at their respective position somewhere else on the diamond.

You should always be looking for ways to upgrade the roster. Having flexibility provides you more chances to do so because any position upgrade is now possible.

If you have the chance to add Altuve to your roster.

If you have Dozier you may not because why have two good 2B on your roster when you have holes elsewhere. You are limited to shopping for your holes. This limits your options.

If you have Escobar. No problem... add Altuve and move Escobar to 3B or SS.

If you don’t have flexibility you don’t get Altuve and you live and die with what you have. If Sano gets hurt you are hurt. If Morrison sucks... you suck.

I suppose you could acquire Altuve and trade Dozier but we tried that... there wasn’t a market for Dozier and regardless... the acquisition of Altuve just got harder.

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