Mauer placed on waivers

[kydoty]

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/988779/391/Report-Twins-Joe-Mauer-placed-on-waiver-wire?odyssey=tab|topnews|bc|large

 

99% chance nothing happens, but interesting nonetheless.

[John Bonnes]

I have two questions, one factual and one opinion...

 

1) If Mauer is claimed, and the Twins decide to let him go, can he veto it because of his no-trade clause? Is it a "trade" or is it "waivers?"

2) Can we see any way the Twins would have the balls to do that?

 

One more...

3) Should they do that?

 

I'll admit, I'm torn on 3.

[SweetOne69]

Since Mauer was placed on "Revocable Trade Waivers" it is considered a trade and Mauer retains his veto rights.

[SweetOne69]

MLBtraderumors is reporting that Boston's Pitcher Felix Doubront was claimed by an unknown team. Rosenthal is suggesting that Boston could be sending Doubront to the Twins as part of a trade for Mauer.

[twinswon1991]

TR needs to have the balls to let him go. This is the easiest way to get the team in contention soon and may be the last time anyone is dumb enough to claim this albatross contact. Doumit/Butera at catcher and 23 mil towards starting pitching is way better than keeping a 23 mil sindles hitting DH. This may be the only chance they get for a do~over on Billys franchise strangling mistake.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think Ryan has the guts to trade Mauer. I honestly don't.

 

I'm not entirely convinced it's a good idea, either.

 

And if he does go to the Red Sox, when did Billy Smith take over the GM position in Boston? Dealing Gonzalez and then picking up Mauer would be the type of move that'd make him proud.

[Gernzy]

Unless we can get a pitcher like King Felix or Verlander trading Mauer would be horrible. It would completely kill the casuel fan base.

[JB_Iowa]

I don't know why you wouldn't run every player through waivers just to gauge interest.

 

I don't expect anything to come of this but I have no problem with trading him. I also don't have a problem with not trading him. But maybe trading him would give this team a personality transplant.

[nicksaviking]

Getting Mauer's salary off the books isn't going to help get a front line starter here. The money it takes to pay pitchers is only a fraction of the issue in dealing with aces. The Twins just aren't going to give an elite pitcher the years other clubs are willing to offer. In no way do I see Terry Ryan getting rid of the last seven years of Mauer's deal only to take on five additional years with Greinke. Ryan is terrified of pitchers, and frankly, five years of Greinke should be a little frightening, he's not the most stable of characters.

[JDW]

Almost zero chance Mauer is ever traded before the 2014 All-Star game at Target Field.

[Mike Sixel]

It hurts nothing to test the waters. I would deal him, but only for one legit MLB starting player in his prime years and at least one minor league big time prospect. But I would only do that if I planned to sign one elite free agent pitcher and another pitcher.

[DaveW]

Trading Mauer for anything less then an Ace in their prime and an elite prospect would be unforgivable in my eyes.

 

You don't trade a hall of fame player in the prime of his career. Yes, he is owed a lot of money, but the Twins have the means to spend 100+mil from here on out.

[Bill Rigney]

I think TR needs to purge the team of all Bill Smith's mistakes. If that includes Joe's insane contract, so be it. By the same token, I think Joe knows he's got it made here with forgiving fans and rarely critical media. I can't imagine him signing off on a trade to a major market where fans whip Eveready 9-volts at you from the stands.

[Boom Boom]

Separate out the PR aspect and trading Mauer is the logical baseball decision.

[powrwrap]

I have two questions, one factual and one opinion...

 

1) If Mauer is claimed, and the Twins decide to let him go, can he veto it because of his no-trade clause? Is it a "trade" or is it "waivers?"

 

Since Mauer has a no-trade clause he can veto any trade. Another option would be for the Twins to accept a deal where the claiming team agrees to assume the full contract and don't give up any players. In this way, it would not be a trade per se, but Mauer might have language in his contract to prevent this from happening. And the Twins would be idiots to do it.

 

2) Can we see any way the Twins would have the balls to do that?

 

I presume they would since they put him on waivers. They can always pull him back off of waivers. However, if they put him back on waivers again this season, because they've already pulled him back, they lose the option of pulling him back again. In other words, he would be on irrevocable waivers next time.

 

One more...

3) Should they do that?

 

I'll admit, I'm torn on 3.

 

Yes, they should do it, if they get value in return. However, the types of teams that would do this sort of a deal would likely be teams not in contention and can take on Mauer's contract and need a C/1B/DH and could give the Twins ML starting pitching. I can't think of any.

 

Boston seems to fit, but they would have to give the Twins one of their top two pitchers, so it seems unlikely they would do it. Seattle might deal King Felix but then they'd have Mauer's contract and they're well set at catcher.

[StormJH1]

I don't think Ryan has the guts to trade Mauer. I honestly don't.

 

I'm not entirely convinced it's a good idea, either.

 

And if he does go to the Red Sox, when did Billy Smith take over the GM position in Boston? Dealing Gonzalez and then picking up Mauer would be the type of move that'd make him proud.

 

This is all just hypothetical message board chatter for fun, right? Because I can't even start to entertain "trade possibilities" for Mauer. Seriously, until this guy holds a press conference wearing an Aaron Rodgers jersey with a grill, a Flavor Flav clock, and talking about how he doesn't really care for hotdish, there's no way this fanbase would ever let him go. And that's ridiculous, since we all know that Joe would never talk to the media on his own initiative.

 

My question as a front office "noob" is: Why do big name guys end up on the waiver wire every August when it looks like there's zero interest in trading them? I understand you can just pull them back anyway, but what's the point? Is there any transactional benefit to the Twins for "dangling him" in this way?

[Brock Beauchamp]

My question as a front office "noob" is: Why do big name guys end up on the waiver wire every August when it looks like there's zero interest in trading them? I understand you can just pull them back anyway, but what's the point? Is there any transactional benefit to the Twins for "dangling him" in this way?

 

Generally, there's not much of a point in doing it. But every once in awhile, you get something like the Dodgers/Sox deal that just went through the waiver process. It's hard to pull that off but since there's no risk to dangling a star player, there's little reason not to do it, either.

[jokin]

Trading Mauer for anything less then an Ace in their prime and an elite prospect would be unforgivable in my eyes.

 

You don't trade a hall of fame player in the prime of his career. Yes, he is owed a lot of money, but the Twins have the means to spend 100+mil from here on out.

 

This is more wish than analysis on your part

 

Case in point regarding "the means to spend" argument which the Twins are in the process of completely blowing up:

 

The Baltimore Orioles-

 

on a hot streak,

hottest team in August-playing 16-8 baseball, a .667 clip,

revived from the dead for years on end to competitive,

third best record in the AL,

the best record in one-run games in baseball,

only 3.5 games behind the best team in the league, the Yankees,

playing in one of the best parks in all of baseball- Camden Yards,

playing a first place team in the White Sox- with a Cy Young favorite on the mound, Chris Sale

perfect night for baseball in Baltimore

 

 

drew all of 12,841 fans last night.

[StormJH1]

One more...

3) Should they do that?

 

I'll admit, I'm torn on 3.

 

Yes, they should do it, if they get value in return. However, the types of teams that would do this sort of a deal would likely be teams not in contention and can take on Mauer's contract and need a C/1B/DH and could give the Twins ML starting pitching. I can't think of any.

 

Boston seems to fit, but they would have to give the Twins one of their top two pitchers, so it seems unlikely they would do it. Seattle might deal King Felix but then they'd have Mauer's contract and they're well set at catcher.

 

Okay, I'll bite, but only to make this point. Why would a team like Boston, New York, etc. want to take on a guy like this? A guy who will be 30 years old next year, and can catch a maximum of 85 games for you, IF he stays healthy. A guy who is a great contact hitter and table setter, but has shown little else to suggest that he's a $20+ million/year player that you'd want to pick up for the downside of his prime.

 

I think that contract is untradeable. Even with Morneau, who only has ONE year left on that deal, it would've taken a team in a crazy situation like the Dodgers, who were basically looking to spend money for big name players in any way possible. And that still didn't happen. Mauer will never be traded from the Twins. You think they have attendance problems NOW?

[StormJH1]

 

Generally, there's not much of a point in doing it. But every once in awhile, you get something like the Dodgers/Sox deal that just went through the waiver process. It's hard to pull that off but since there's no risk to dangling a star player, there's little reason not to do it, either.

 

Thanks. I figured as much, but since the Twins broke virtually every responsible spending rule they lived by for decades to retain Mauer, I'm surprised they'd do something even as insignificant as this from a symbolic perspective.

[StormJH1]

Case in point regarding "the means to spend" argument which the Twins are in the process of completely blowing up:

 

The Baltimore Orioles-

 

on a hot streak,

hottest team in August-playing 16-8 baseball, a .667 clip,

revived from the dead for years on end to competitive,

third best record in the AL,

the best record in one-run games in baseball,

only 3.5 games behind the best team in the league, the Yankees,

playing in one of the best parks in all of baseball- Camden Yards,

playing a first place team in the White Sox- with a Cy Young favorite on the mound, Chris Sale

perfect night for baseball in Baltimore

 

 

drew all of 12,841 fans last night.

 

And yet, the Orioles still have an $80 million payroll, which is actually 3rd in the AL East, higher than Toronto by 5 million and TB by 15 million. And they haven't been "competitive" since the mid-90's.

 

But their highest-paid player is Nick Markakis, who at around $12.3 million, is making roughly within the ballpark of what guys like Cuddy, Nathan and Torii have been let go for by the Twins in recent years.

 

I think this is a better baseball market than Baltimore. I fully expect attendance to continue to decline, but if they can routinely pull around 25,000 a night in the DOME, I really don't think attendance in this town will get that bad with the facility as good as it is, even if the team is bad for a few more years.

[Rosterman]

A team like Boston has has the potential to be a pennant contender and go to the World Series, which getting a ring seems to be every player's dream. They unloaded a couple of mistakes and will also rid themselves of the Ortiz overpaying at season's end, so they do have a lot of money to play with, and because they are a storied franchise can attract free agents, which the Twins can't becaase what do they really offer a player. Boston is also in the enviable position of actually being a loser this year and can claim players like Mauer. Before any corresponding competitive can. Does Joe take one for the team and move on, we all thanking him for his wonderful time. Or does he stay and his salary becomes an albatross as attendance continues to shrink and the ownership family doesn't see that you pay Joe outside of the annual team 50% salary cap because...he is Joe. Joe signed with the Twins because he wants to win...but it probably ain't going to happen as long as he is playing for the Twins. For $23 million a year, the Twins could get a nice first baseman and catcher and designated hitter.

[JB_Iowa]

 

Thanks. I figured as much, but since the Twins broke virtually every responsible spending rule they lived by for decades to retain Mauer, I'm surprised they'd do something even as insignificant as this from a symbolic perspective.

 

It does give them another opportunity to say that they are listening to the fans, though. They can point to Twitter responses, etc. that ask how they could even think about doing this.

 

If you can't do anything meaningful, do something useless and claim that you listened to the fans.

 

(Sorry my cynicism level about this team is so d*mn high. I hope that they were honestly testing the market.)

[jokin]

One more...

3) Should they do that?

 

I'll admit, I'm torn on 3.

 

Yes, they should do it, if they get value in return. However, the types of teams that would do this sort of a deal would likely be teams not in contention and can take on Mauer's contract and need a C/1B/DH and could give the Twins ML starting pitching. I can't think of any.

 

Boston seems to fit, but they would have to give the Twins one of their top two pitchers, so it seems unlikely they would do it. Seattle might deal King Felix but then they'd have Mauer's contract and they're well set at catcher.

 

Okay, I'll bite, but only to make this point. Why would a team like Boston, New York, etc. want to take on a guy like this? A guy who will be 30 years old next year, and can catch a maximum of 85 games for you, IF he stays healthy. A guy who is a great contact hitter and table setter, but has shown little else to suggest that he's a $20+ million/year player that you'd want to pick up for the downside of his prime.

 

I think that contract is untradeable. Even with Morneau, who only has ONE year left on that deal, it would've taken a team in a crazy situation like the Dodgers, who were basically looking to spend money for big name players in any way possible. And that still didn't happen. Mauer will never be traded from the Twins. You think they have attendance problems NOW?

 

From Boston's point of view, this makes total sense. Joe Mauer could be the return of Wade Boggs.

[jokin]

Case in point regarding "the means to spend" argument which the Twins are in the process of completely blowing up:

 

The Baltimore Orioles-

 

on a hot streak,

hottest team in August-playing 16-8 baseball, a .667 clip,

revived from the dead for years on end to competitive,

third best record in the AL,

the best record in one-run games in baseball,

only 3.5 games behind the best team in the league, the Yankees,

playing in one of the best parks in all of baseball- Camden Yards,

playing a first place team in the White Sox- with a Cy Young favorite on the mound, Chris Sale

perfect night for baseball in Baltimore

 

 

drew all of 12,841 fans last night.

 

And yet, the Orioles still have an $80 million payroll, which is actually 3rd in the AL East, higher than Toronto by 5 million and TB by 15 million. And they haven't been "competitive" since the mid-90's.

 

But their highest-paid player is Nick Markakis, who at around $12.3 million, is making roughly within the ballpark of what guys like Cuddy, Nathan and Torii have been let go for by the Twins in recent years.

 

I think this is a better baseball market than Baltimore. I fully expect attendance to continue to decline, but if they can routinely pull around 25,000 a night in the DOME, I really don't think attendance in this town will get that bad with the facility as good as it is, even if the team is bad for a few more years.

 

Baltimore is a great baseball town (home of Babe Ruth and a run of extended success for 30 years with a string of HOF players). It took a few years for attendance to collapse, but collapse it has.

 

You forget that in the 90s in the Dome, the Twins had season tickets available for $81 for 81 games to goose up attendance. This is a front-running professional sports team market, not a better baseball market than Baltimore.

 

So, since the Orioles are spending what they're spending, my proposal that Pohlad might be happy with an $80M Twins payroll is on the table, then, right?

[greengoblinrulz]

Im not a Mauer basher....never have been. Im not for trading him because of the contract, but because the team has come to the conlusion that he cannot be an everyday catcher anymore. His catcher defense right now is one of MLBs worst (era/baserunning). If he can be fulltime, Gardy is completely against it.

Guess it comes down to me that Im willing to deal Mauer because I dont believe Gardy knows how to use him properly. Gardy MUST have a 3rd C that doesnt play, in case the baseball appocolytpse happens I guess, for a situation that hasnt come up in 5 yrs.

Gardy also refuses to believe that Mauers lack of power make him the best #2 hitter in baseball but keeps him hitting 3rd. Its not the lack of HRs but overall lack of doubles/triples also that makes his run producing far below average for a #3 hitter.

[jokin]

A team like Boston has has the potential to be a pennant contender and go to the World Series, which getting a ring seems to be every player's dream. They unloaded a couple of mistakes and will also rid themselves of the Ortiz overpaying at season's end, so they do have a lot of money to play with, and because they are a storied franchise can attract free agents, which the Twins can't becaase what do they really offer a player. Boston is also in the enviable position of actually being a loser this year and can claim players like Mauer. Before any corresponding competitive can. Does Joe take one for the team and move on, we all thanking him for his wonderful time. Or does he stay and his salary becomes an albatross as attendance continues to shrink and the ownership family doesn't see that you pay Joe outside of the annual team 50% salary cap because...he is Joe. Joe signed with the Twins because he wants to win...but it probably ain't going to happen as long as he is playing for the Twins. For $23 million a year, the Twins could get a nice first baseman and catcher and designated hitter.

 

This.... and it has been "this" ever since Billy and Ron Shapiro inked the deal.

[jokin]

Im not a Mauer basher....never have been. Im not for trading him because of the contract, but because the team has come to the conlusion that he cannot be an everyday catcher anymore. His catcher defense right now is one of MLBs worst (era/baserunning). If he can be fulltime, Gardy is completely against it.

Guess it comes down to me that Im willing to deal Mauer because I dont believe Gardy knows how to use him properly. Gardy MUST have a 3rd C that doesnt play, in case the baseball appocolytpse happens I guess, for a situation that hasnt come up in 5 yrs.

Gardy also refuses to believe that Mauers lack of power make him the best #2 hitter in baseball but keeps him hitting 3rd. Its not the lack of HRs but overall lack of doubles/triples also that makes his run producing far below average for a #3 hitter.

 

That's why batting in #2 spot, playing some 3B and C and becoming a doubles-producing machine off the Green Monster makes such perfect sense for the Sox.

[powrwrap]

Okay, I'll bite, but only to make this point. Why would a team like Boston, New York, etc. want to take on a guy like this? A guy who will be 30 years old next year, and can catch a maximum of 85 games for you, IF he stays healthy. A guy who is a great contact hitter and table setter, but has shown little else to suggest that he's a $20+ million/year player that you'd want to pick up for the downside of his prime.

 

Mauer would bang line drives off the green monster in LF in Fenway with regularity. The Red Sox need help at catcher and DH. I believe they are going to dump Ortiz, a free agent after this season. Since the trade with the Dodgers, James Loney is their regular first baseman. Mauer could spell Loney at 1B as well. Or the Red Sox could try Mauer at 3B.

[StormJH1]

 

Thanks. I figured as much, but since the Twins broke virtually every responsible spending rule they lived by for decades to retain Mauer, I'm surprised they'd do something even as insignificant as this from a symbolic perspective.

 

It does give them another opportunity to say that they are listening to the fans, though. They can point to Twitter responses, etc. that ask how they could even think about doing this.

 

If you can't do anything meaningful, do something useless and claim that you listened to the fans.

 

(Sorry my cynicism level about this team is so d*mn high. I hope that they were honestly testing the market.)

 

See, and I viewed it as "listening to the fans" when they overpaid him to begin with, and that the fans would still tell them to keep him no matter how bad the team is. While people like you and I are surrounded by fans and bloggers on message boards who play armchair GM and talk about how smart it is to move guys like Morneau and Mauer...we're in the extreme minority of people who pay for tickets.

 

I conducted a very unscientific experiment last year...I happened to be at a Caribou Coffee in Wayzata and the staff (which were virtually all girls aged about 16-25) were asked to name their favorite Twins player on a sign. Of the 8 responses, about 4 of them named Mauer, while 2 of them named "T.C. Bear" and 2 of them said something like "Don't Care" or couldn't name any. Take Mauer off the team, and I bet 2-4 more of those responses are either "don't care" or they name the stupid mascot.

 

This is a big chunk of your fanbase. It's the families that show up with "Circle Me Bert" signs, or the middle-aged guy who listens to KFAN on the way home from work, but thinks that a "waiver" is something the fans do in their seats during a rally. They're the ones that get the free Joe Mauer sideburns, and actually wear them during the game.

 

Good or bad, you lose those fans without guys like Mauer and Morneau, or even if you replaced them with Latin American guys with similar numbers. There's enough "baseball" fans that would show up anyway, but baseball is a business, and winning isn't the only reason people pay into it.