Twins Upset Over 9th Inning Bunt

[KirbyDome89]

Unfortunately this isn't an April Fools joke....

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23001797/minnesota-twins-upset-chance-sisco-baltimore-orioles-bunted-vs-shift-9th

 

 

Brian Dozier spoke out about Sisco's bunt after the game.

 

"I could've said something, but they have tremendous veteran leadership over there, with Chris Davis, Adam Jones and those guys," Dozier told reporters. "I'm sure they'll address it and move forward."

 

Berrios added to reporters: "I don't care if he's bunting. I just know it's not good for baseball in that situation. That's it."

 

 

So they gave Sisco the entire left side of the infield, and they're pissed at him for taking advantage of it. I wasn't aware that as a hitter you're expected to hit into the shift and forego trying to get on base when you're down 7 runs....

[Squirrel]

Feel free to discuss this here, but there has been an ongoing discussion on this in the post-game wrap thread here: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/29144-article-min-7-bal-0-berri0s/page-2

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The bunt happened in the 9th inning, the players were asked about it immediately after the 9th inning ended, and that's it. In my opinion it's the Internet posters who are keeping this non-issue alive-- and I'm only saying it's a non issue because I don't really think Dozier or Berrios care about this anymore. Maybe it is worth discussion, so I will leave to others to do that, but I really think the players have moved on.

 

 

edited from original post

[gunnarthor]

Yep, someone in TT posted some tweets from Gelner that said as much. It's not a real issue.

[Squirrel]

 

Yep, someone in TT posted some tweets from Gelner that said as much. It's not a real issue.

Don't know if these were the same tweets, but here are some:

 

 

 

 

So it really sounds as if how it was originally reported, it was a bit ... slanted ... to garner a certain response.

[Mr. Brooks]

Waiting to be asked about it, rather that saying it unprompted, changes nothing, IMO.

The correct answer if asked about it, IMO, is "what are you asking about? We shifted him, and he beat it. Heads up play by the kid over there."

[Squirrel]

Well, whatever, I just don't think it's a big deal anymore. Initially I was very much, 'Why is this a deal?' Turns out it's not for the players. And it wasn't a discussion in the clubhouse, at all.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, whatever, I just don't think it's a big deal anymore. Initially I was very much, 'Why is this a deal?' Turns out it's not for the players. And it wasn't a discussion in the clubhouse, at all.

Well I'm glad they are moving on, if that's true. But I disagree that it wasn't a deal for the players.

I certainly don't think Dozier would have considered confronting the player at second base if it was never a deal to him.

[Squirrel]

 

Well I'm glad they are moving on, if that's true. But I disagree that it wasn't a deal for the players.
I certainly don't think Dozier would have considered confronting the player at second base if it was never a deal to him.

I guess you and I read the same thing in a different way. He didn't do it. He said he could have, but didn't. To me that speaks to him just not thinking it was worth it. <shrug>

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess you and I read the same thing in a different way. He didn't do it. He said he could have, but didn't. To me that speaks to him just not thinking it was worth it. <shrug>

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm making myself clear.

My issue isn't with how they handled it, really, it's with their opinion that he did something wrong.

 

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But all that means is that the government can't oppress them for it. It doesn't mean i have to respect them for it.

I think every one of us has lost respect for someone based on learning of an opinion they have, even if they don't act on it.

[Squirrel]

 

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm making myself clear.
My issue isn't with how they handled it, really, it's with their opinion that he did something wrong.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But all that means is that the government can't oppress them for it. It doesn't mean i have to respect them for it.
I think every one of us has lost respect for someone based on learning of an opinion they have, even if they don't act on it.

Lol ... okay, now we're having the same discussion in two separate threads ... which is why we try to minimize that with merging and redirecting. So I won't go on further here.

[TheLeviathan]

Glad they moved on.  They should've scoffed at the bait in the first place.

[Doctor Wu]

I think the whole dynamic of this issue would be different if this had happened in a close game. I don't even understand why the Twins were using a shift in this instance; ahead by 7 runs in the 9th inning and Berrios pitching a shutout. That's as puzzling to me as Dozier whining about Sisco bunting to get on base, thus breaking one of those idiotic "unwritten rules." Hey, if I'm Sisco and they are using a shift on me, I'll do whatever I can to get on base. That's not the same as the Twins not trying to steal a base because the Orioles didn't hold the runner on base. The Twins are the team with the big lead in this case. Yeah, this is all something about nothing, but these unwritten rules are one of the things that I hate about baseball. 

[dgwills]

They may of had an argument if they hadn't played a big shift. Doubt they had to time to think about it though.

 

[Roaddog]

If it had broken up a No hitter, I can kind of see it. But why put on a shift for a rookie when your starter has been dominant

[jokin]

 

I think the whole dynamic of this issue would be different if this had happened in a close game. I don't even understand why the Twins were using a shift in this instance; ahead by 7 runs in the 9th inning and Berrios pitching a shutout. That's as puzzling to me as Dozier whining about Sisco bunting to get on base, thus breaking one of those idiotic "unwritten rules." Hey, if I'm Sisco and they are using a shift on me, I'll do whatever I can to get on base. That's not the same as the Twins not trying to steal a base because the Orioles didn't hold the runner on base. The Twins are the team with the big lead in this case. Yeah, this is all something about nothing, but these unwritten rules are one of the things that I hate about baseball. 

 

I must have missed that time when the unwritten rules of baseball were updated mandating that bunting bans in a superfluous defensive shift situation must strictly conform with slow pitch softball written rules.

[Number3]

This horse has been kicked to oblivion but what you need when behind by 7 runs are base runners so from a pure baseball perspective the bunt made perfect sense. Its the shift mania that is the prblem and Castro should bunt every time. If not, why not?

[Platoon]

While this discussion will die an early death, I for one, hope teams bunt the shifts to death. I know there is a statistical rationale behind them. But I just think they are getting out of hand. At least for me.

[Nine of twelve]

I thought the bunt was completely reasonable and justified. Shifting is fine, but if you do it live with the consequences or die with them. Remember the great play Eddie Rosario made against Milwaukee last year tweaking the pitcher into a balk and scoring the winning run? The shift made that possible.

There was a game many years ago--I'm pretty sure St. Louis was involved because I have a memory of Tony LaRussa commenting. The Cards were up by about 10 in about the 4th inning and they stole a base. The other team took exception, and LaRussa's comment was something to the effect that if they stop trying to win the game then so will I. 7-run innings can happen and players should keep playing until the last out.

[Platoon]

I also remember when Rosario took an open third with the shift on. Clean open base.That one sent Molitor into spasms, and I think Rosario either to the bench, or Rochester?

[amjgt]

This is such a non story that the national media has grabbed on to.

 

You know who thinks the bunt was fine? Like 99.9999% of people, but somehow because Dozier answered a question it’s turned into a bizarre debate where basically everyone agrees.

 

I’m sure Dozier regrets ever having said anything. And likely has come around to the same view that 99.99% of us have

[SweetOne69]

Dozier clarified (and what most are missing) that the reason they were upset with the bunt was what happened in the top of the 9th inning.

 

LaMarre got a 2 out hit in the top of the 9th.  They elected to not hold the runner on signalling that they had conceded and we were not to steal 2nd since we were up 7-0.  Then they go and bunt for a hit against the shift.

 

It is the 2 contradictory actions that Baltimore employed in the 9th inning that upset the players.  It wasn't the bunt itself.

[stockdogg]

 

Waiting to be asked about it, rather that saying it unprompted, changes nothing, IMO.
The correct answer if asked about it, IMO, is "what are you asking about? We shifted him, and he beat it. Heads up play by the kid over there."

 

100% agree. I love me some Brian Dozier, and I especially love his grit.  But with that comes a lot of questionable comments from him.  I would rather him have confronted Cisco at 2B then spill his thoughts to the media.  Now this has become "a deal" whether the Twins move on or not.  The Orioles will not forget about it.  And I get it, thats part of baseball too, but this is a ridiculous thing to get mad at.  If the game was out of hand, then why shift? And for goodness sakes, BERRIOS SNUFFED THE BUNT/RALLY OUT!!!! Jose didn't need Brian to make excuses!!

[stockdogg]

 

This is such a non story that the national media has grabbed on to.

You know who thinks the bunt was fine? Like 99.9999% of people, but somehow because Dozier answered a question it’s turned into a bizarre debate where basically everyone agrees.

I’m sure Dozier regrets ever having said anything. And likely has come around to the same view that 99.99% of us have

Well, the Orioles probably won't forget about it.  Dozier is probably due a fastball in the ribs, if I'm guessing.  He singled out a rookie and also gave a homework assignment to Chris Davis.  Neither of which was probably received well.  Maybe Dozier sees it the other way now (i doubt it honetly) but the Orioles might not have moved on just yet.  

[stockdogg]

 

100% agree. I love me some Brian Dozier, and I especially love his grit.  But with that comes a lot of questionable comments from him.  I would rather him have confronted Cisco at 2B then spill his thoughts to the media.  Now this has become "a deal" whether the Twins move on or not.  The Orioles will not forget about it.  And I get it, thats part of baseball too, but this is a ridiculous thing to get mad at.  If the game was out of hand, then why shift? And for goodness sakes, BERRIOS SNUFFED THE BUNT/RALLY OUT!!!! Jose didn't need Brian to make excuses!!

You lose the ability to get upset about bunting when you still engage a shift, don't you think?  The kid had a double earlier in the game, its not like he was beyond hitting Berrios.  And their best chance to score obviously came as a result of the bunt.  A grand slam and the game is "back on" again.  I fail to see how LaMarre's play equates with this one.

[Kelly Vance]

I would bunt to get on in that situation. Its not bush league to try to get on base by any means necessary. Complaining about it is. Besides, teh third base side bunt is kryptonite against the shift. Now if the Twins had bunted with a 7 run lead, THAT might be bush league. 

[Squirrel]

If anyone wants to take up this discussion in more general terms of 'this is/isn't how the game is supposed to be played,' and is beyond the Twins' responses to this play, Platoon started a thread to do just that in the 'Other Baseball' forum.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/29172-to-bunt-or-not-to-bunt-that-is-the-question/

[Blackjack]

Plain and simple, Dozier comes across as a whiner. If that's his form of 'leadership', the Twins don't need it.

[Blackjack]

I did a search to see what others were saying about the bunt. Not too many supporting Dozier.

 

Mike Axisa, CBS Sports: “Translation: ‘We're very upset Sisco and the Orioles didn't just roll over and lose in the ninth inning. How dare they try.’

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bs-sp-sisco-bunt-reaction-20180402-story.html

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I support Dozier post-game quote 100%