This is not your father's Twins team!

[curt1965]

I've been quiet (well, somewhat, anyway) in criticizing the performance of this Twins squad. However, the last 10 days results finally were straw(s) that broke the proverbial camel's back.

This is a seriously flawed team that overperformd the first six weeks of the season, and got most of us excited about basically the same team that lost 100+ games in 2016. This is the reality, folks. The reason I've now decided to pontificate(wow)at this point in the season, is that I remember a promise by the owners to do whatever it takes to bring a championship team to Minnesota once we built this terrific stadium.

 

BS!!!!

 

The fans of this team are used to seeing what we have come to see as an "average" product. And a pretty boring and uninspiring one, for that matter. I realize that every fan base doesn't get to have a Trout or Harper or Kershaw or Judge to put fans in those new seats, but the players we have been promised to lead us to years of excitement have been slow to excite(we're looking at you, Buxton and Sano). And the pitching that Tom Kelly has said was the key to any teams success, well, that has been virtually horrible for years.

Our new team President and G.M. decided to address this concern dead on by signing every ancient and discarded pitcher they could find. Good idea if you are all in trying to win the World Series in 2017, but not exactly a good long term plan, IMHO.

This rant originated after I had finally had enough of watching shi**y baseball. You are in the majors and don't know how to bunt-really? Can't score with a runner(s) at 3rd and no out? Don't hustle or throw to the right base? This time we're looking at you, Molitor. While he probably was one of the best players of his era, his low keyed attitude that his players have adopted hasn't translated to wins on the field.

So back to the title of this piece: how many Hrbeks or Gaettis or Pucketts or Brunanskis or Blylevens or Violas do you see playing right now? Hell, I'd like a few more Gagnes!!

I'll keep watching our Twins on TV, and maybe take my grandsons to a few games this year, but not because I care if they win or not, but because I love baseball.

[bluechipper]

Situational hitting has been maddening, especially lately.

 

Also, another incredible thing is the Twins have finished dead last in strikeouts in 6 out of the last 7 seasons. How has nothing been done to address this?

[twinsnorth49]

Sano has been slow to excite?

 

I guess I'm easily excitable.

[Mr. Brooks]

Sano has been slow to excite?

 

I guess I'm easily excitable.

Yep, he's only statistically the BEST hitter in Twins history through his age and number of games.

Better than Killabrew, better than Puckett, better than Mauer and Morneau.

But, for some people, nothing Sano does will ever be enough.

[jimmer]

 

Sano has been slow to excite?

I guess I'm easily excitable.

Well, he was exciting with the bat from the very beginning.  Also exciting on defense from the very beginning...but in a very different way ;-)  

 

Same thing with Buxton, except for reverse reasons.

 

Overall, I think we can consider Sano an exceptional player and I don't understand the slow to excite comment in regards to him. Buxton is disappointing as an overall player, so far.

[Thrylos]

 

 

I remember a promise by the owners to do whatever it takes to bring a championship team to Minnesota once we built this terrific stadium.

 

I hear this.  Often.  Always unsupported with data.  Do you have anything to support that the (now dead) Twins owner promised that "he will do whatever it takes to bring a championship team" once Target Field was build?

 

BTW unless you labored in the building of the ballpark, you did not build it.  The royal "we" has its limits.  The funds that the "public" contributed was a 0.15% city sales tax in Hennepin Cty.   So if you live and buy in St. Paul, you contributed as much as someone who lives and buys in Malta. 

 

Enough with the "poor taxpayer" BS.

[Danchat]

 

Situational hitting has been maddening, especially lately.

 

Also, another incredible thing is the Twins have finished dead last in strikeouts in 6 out of the last 7 seasons. How has nothing been done to address this?

Their strikeout guys (Pressly, Tonkin, Duffey) have been flat-out bad, paving the way for poor strikeout relievers (Kintzler, Breslow, Rogers 2017, Boshers) to get more reps. Plus they've had poor strikeout starters in Gibson, Hughes, Santiago, and Colon. I imagine in 2018 we see only a few of these guys return. Hopefully they'll focus on acquiring guys who can get Ks.

[Darius]

I hear this. Often. Always unsupported with data. Do you have anything to support that the (now dead) Twins owner promised that "he will do whatever it takes to bring a championship team" once Target Field was build?

 

BTW unless you labored in the building of the ballpark, you did not build it. The royal "we" has its limits. The funds that the "public" contributed was a 0.15% city sales tax in Hennepin Cty. So if you live and buy in St. Paul, you contributed as much as someone who lives and buys in Malta.

 

Enough with the "poor taxpayer" BS.

http://blogs.mprnews.org/todays-question/2014/04/was-building-target-field-a-mistake/

 

There it's mentioned in the first paragraph. It was all over the place at the time. Likely never a direct quote from a Pohlad, but the PR machine was banging that drum.

 

Hennepin County was on the hook for a pretty substantial bond related to that stadium. If I recall the County funded a big chunk of that stadium (50-60%) when said and done. Certainly not a public contribution to a private for-profit entity that can be dismissed as "peanuts."

 

They leveraged a perceived economic impact to a certain area (hence why that area pays he tax), along with the help of slimy Bud Selig under the guise of moving or contraction, to a huge payday from the government. Call it what you will (business, working the system, extortion). They basically maneuvered to get a cut of the economic benefit.

 

Questions regarding the process, and why a franchise privately worth billions can't pay for its own stadium, are valid. It doesn't mean you can't like watching the team.

[drjim]

 

http://blogs.mprnews.org/todays-question/2014/04/was-building-target-field-a-mistake/

There it's mentioned in the first paragraph. It was all over the place at the time. Likely never a direct quote from a Pohlad, but the PR machine was banging that drum.

Hennepin County was on the hook for a pretty substantial bond related to that stadium. If I recall the County funded a big chunk of that stadium (50-60%) when said and done. Certainly not a public contribution to a private for-profit entity that can be dismissed as "peanuts."

They leveraged a perceived economic impact to a certain area (hence why that area pays he tax), along with the help of slimy Bud Selig under the guise of moving or contraction, to a huge payday from the government. Call it what you will (business, working the system, extortion). They basically maneuvered to get a cut of the economic benefit.

Questions regarding the process, and why a franchise privately worth billions can't pay for its own stadium, are valid. It doesn't mean you can't like watching the team.

 

"Building a competitive team" and "Doing whatever it takes" sound like pretty big differences to me. Building a stadium unfortunately can't cover for an incompetent front office.

 

But yes, most of government funding for a private sports is a sham. Absolutely a nice windfall for the value of the team.

[nicksaviking]

 

Also, another incredible thing is the Twins have finished dead last in strikeouts in 6 out of the last 7 seasons. How has nothing been done to address this?

 

That's always at or near the top of my list of issues with the team.

 

But looking at the drafts since about 2011, the lack of strikeouts has been addressed. Just so very, very poorly. They knew it was a problem but unlike every other franchise, apparently didn't know how get the kinds of pitchers that could fix it at the MLB level.

[drjim]

 

That's always at or near the top of my list of issues with the team.

 

But looking at the drafts since about 2011, the lack of strikeouts has been addressed. Just so very, very poorly. They knew it was a problem but unlike every other franchise, apparently didn't know how get the kinds of pitchers that could fix it at the MLB level.

 

I think it also shows how long a true cycle of change takes. Seems that the change started around 2011 to reverse the outdated model that was very entrenched and it takes years for the change it to fully flow through the organization and to start seeing fruits at the majors.

 

Does provide some context for the challenge of the new front office. Not only do they need to update outdated models, they also need to start making the necessary changes to be at the forefront of the next evolution. (For the record, the basic vision is being implemented - significant emphasis on athletes and secondary pitches).

[Thrylos]

 

 

But yes, most of government funding for a private sports is a sham.

 

The people want sports teams in their home areas.  Government does should do what the people want.  Can you imagine if the Twins and the Vikings left the Twin Cities because the government would not contribute? (and get paid back, as is the case with all government funding.  It is a bond, not a grant.  A loan)   I'd say you'd have a new government...    The best thing would had been to put it on a referendum, with clear options:  There is either government loaning or there is no Twins in the Twin Cities, and let the people decide.  But it would had been a landslide...

 

Want it or not, the Twins is pretty much a feature of the Twin Cities  Minneapolis, and without it, Minneapolis would not be the same.  Same with the Vikings, same with the Foshay Tower.   The local government would have to do everything it can to keep that feature.

[drjim]

 

The people want sports teams in their home areas.  Government does should do what the people want.  Can you imagine if the Twins and the Vikings left the Twin Cities because the government would not contribute? (and get paid back, as is the case with all government funding.  It is a bond, not a grant.  A loan)   I'd say you'd have a new government...    The best thing would had been to put it on a referendum, with clear options:  There is either government loaning or there is no Twins in the Twin Cities, and let the people decide.  But it would had been a landslide...

 

Want it or not, the Twins is pretty much a feature of the Twin Cities  Minneapolis, and without it, Minneapolis would not be the same.  Same with the Vikings, same with the Foshay Tower.   The local government would have to do everything it can to keep that feature.

 

I don't really buy any of this. A significant percentage of people don't care and probably just want lower taxes, or spending on their own pet cause. A referendum would have failed. That's why they never do them for stadiums. (Though to be fair, basically everything government spends on, good and bad, wouldn't pass a referendum).

[mikecgrimes]

 

 

Enough with the "poor taxpayer" BS.

 

I complain about every tax including the stadium taxes despite loving Target field.  That being said every step of the stadium process was filled with lies.  The Vikings were especially pathetic but can you blame them when they get free money if they say all the right things?  This will be the 8th opportunity for the Twins to win a World Series since Target Field was built.  There are more then 8 franchises who made similar "promises" ahead of  them. 

 

I get the frustration but the future should present a better opportunity.  If somehow you can identify the prospects that won't pan out and trade them for value then sure go all in every year, but if you can't do that you don't have the opportunity to go all in every year, this year was sort of close and if they kept winning after getting Garcia they might have been added, in the end they basically didn't buy or sell.  Kintzlers a decent player but about the 15th most impact guy on the roster

[drjim]

And wow do I wish the Vikings would have left instead of lining the Wilfs pockets with that absurd stadium deal.

[Linus]

I hear this. Often. Always unsupported with data. Do you have anything to support that the (now dead) Twins owner promised that "he will do whatever it takes to bring a championship team" once Target Field was build?

 

BTW unless you labored in the building of the ballpark, you did not build it. The royal "we" has its limits. The funds that the "public" contributed was a 0.15% city sales tax in Hennepin Cty. So if you live and buy in St. Paul, you contributed as much as someone who lives and buys in Malta.

 

Enough with the "poor taxpayer" BS.

Thank you.

[DaveW]

Yeah, the "world series or bust" mantra was never a part of Twins ownership or Twins brass (beyond GM chair at least)

I was chatting with a long time suite owner for the Twins and he gets facetime with DSP every year, he mentioned to me that DSP has said on more than one occasion that the goal isn't to win the world series or even go far in the playoffs. In fact he said that in  one conversation that the further along the Twins would go in the playoffs, the less profitability becomes.

I think a lot of this is because the majority of revenues come in from the TV contracts, corporate season tickets/suites. Basically as teams go further in the playoffs:

TV contracts stay the same, but costs go up (yeah they make it back in ticket sales, beer sales etc) but the profit margin is significantly smaller.

None of this is surprising, or really even upsetting, it's just the reality of how the Pohlads run this team (to be clear a lot of owners and teams view it like this as well)

[Vanimal46]

 

Yeah, the "world series or bust" mantra was never a part of Twins ownership or Twins brass (beyond GM chair at least)

I was chatting with a long time suite owner for the Twins and he gets facetime with DSP every year, he mentioned to me that DSP has said on more than one occasion that the goal isn't to win the world series or even go far in the playoffs. In fact he said that in  one conversation that the further along the Twins would go in the playoffs, the less profitability becomes.

I think a lot of this is because the majority of revenues come in from the TV contracts, corporate season tickets/suites. Basically as teams go further in the playoffs:

TV contracts stay the same, but costs go up (yeah they make it back in ticket sales, beer sales etc) but the profit margin is significantly smaller.

None of this is surprising, or really even upsetting, it's just the reality of how the Pohlads run this team (to be clear a lot of owners and teams view it like this as well)

 

Hmm, I never thought of that before. But it makes sense. The TV contract rate is the same whether it's 162 games, or 180 games. Do they not see the revenues from TBS/FOX when they are on national TV for the playoffs? 

[Vanimal46]

 

And wow do I wish the Vikings would have left instead of lining the Wilfs pockets with that absurd stadium deal.

 

Agreed. Publicly-funded sports stadiums are an absolute scam, and the NFL is superior at strong-arming communities to pay for it or else... 

 

I know there are rabid, diehard Vikings fans who would have been crushed if the team left Minnesota. We're not that demographic, obviously. I'd much prefer having the choice of tuning in or out of the game from the comfort of my living room. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, the "world series or bust" mantra was never a part of Twins ownership or Twins brass (beyond GM chair at least)

I was chatting with a long time suite owner for the Twins and he gets facetime with DSP every year, he mentioned to me that DSP has said on more than one occasion that the goal isn't to win the world series or even go far in the playoffs. In fact he said that in  one conversation that the further along the Twins would go in the playoffs, the less profitability becomes.

I think a lot of this is because the majority of revenues come in from the TV contracts, corporate season tickets/suites. Basically as teams go further in the playoffs:

TV contracts stay the same, but costs go up (yeah they make it back in ticket sales, beer sales etc) but the profit margin is significantly smaller.

None of this is surprising, or really even upsetting, it's just the reality of how the Pohlads run this team (to be clear a lot of owners and teams view it like this as well)

 

was just reading on line that teams have little incentive to actually win it all....that they are much more focused on other things that lead to making money (whatever those are).

[DaveW]

 

Hmm, I never thought of that before. But it makes sense. The TV contract rate is the same whether it's 162 games, or 180 games. Do they not see the revenues from TBS/FOX when they are on national TV for the playoffs? 

The national TV contracts goto MLB (and thus get split up amongst the teams)

The teams do get some additional money individually for these games, but it's not a massive amount, and a chunk of it goes to player playoff shares etc Basically none of it really helps the EBITA.

 

[drjim]

 

Yeah, the "world series or bust" mantra was never a part of Twins ownership or Twins brass (beyond GM chair at least)

I was chatting with a long time suite owner for the Twins and he gets facetime with DSP every year, he mentioned to me that DSP has said on more than one occasion that the goal isn't to win the world series or even go far in the playoffs. In fact he said that in  one conversation that the further along the Twins would go in the playoffs, the less profitability becomes.

I think a lot of this is because the majority of revenues come in from the TV contracts, corporate season tickets/suites. Basically as teams go further in the playoffs:

TV contracts stay the same, but costs go up (yeah they make it back in ticket sales, beer sales etc) but the profit margin is significantly smaller.

None of this is surprising, or really even upsetting, it's just the reality of how the Pohlads run this team (to be clear a lot of owners and teams view it like this as well)

 

I imagine that what St. Peter said is technically correct, but I can't imagine that's their business strategy. What he said makes sense on the margin, but if a team operated like this it would cost them in the long run. Teams that win will sell more tickets, have higher ratings/TV contracts, more corporate season tickets/suites at higher prices, more concessions, etc.

 

The playoffs in and of themselves aren't going to make more money, but the residual income in the seasons that follow create the windfall.

[Rosterman]

Some points:

 

Yes, we were promised that Target Field would create the kind of revenue to place the Twins into a competitive situation in signing players, as well as keeping their own players under contract.

 

The past regime has always been more focused on being competitive against their division with the chance of making the playoffs, yet staying within budget because you might make more money with a successful team or have a bad season if you tanked. What a team does during a season is totally unpredictable. You can have the most money and still lose. You can spend little and pull a whammy!

 

I'm still giving the front office this year as a wash. They came into the game after the World Series. They needed to fill some roster spots and picked up more cast-offs than Terry Ryan ever did. The needed to evaluate the current 25-man roster, the extended 40-man roster, and all the guys in the minors.

 

The majors (pitching) and minors (pitching) have been plagued with injuries.

 

The current crop of youngsters have had ups and downs and will continue to do so. We always have to factor in age. Not everyone is a mike Trout, More are like an Aaron Hicks or a Carlos Gomez. Might take a couple of years. But do you keep them on the farm or let them take major league lumps.  But at this point, looking at the line-up, there is no depth of backups yet in the minors. Hopefully that will change into next season. If someone goes down, there is not a bench player that I want to call permanent for a starting position and, besides Gordon and Garver, no one from the minors that might meet the challenge of being a regular for a short period of time.

 

I want to believe that everything will start to come together by 2019. We will hopefully be out from under the Mauer contract, have an idea of our the players that will be the strength of the team for a decade, and have a system in place where the draft picks will corrrectly perform and take their place in the major league world. I loved this draft overall. But we know how many players NEVER pan out.

 

It was a surprise to the front office that the Twins were in the hunt, I believe. And it started to shows visions of "maybe" or "could" in their hallowed eyes instead of staying on plan. The revenues happened, fans came and spent, they might have a better revenue season than last year (minus all the sponsorship money cuts they might've had). 

 

It may be a tough sell come September, and especially this off-season with Super Bowl fever grabbing the headlines. So don't look for the Twins to spend again.

 

But September will be a tell. Do they look at ALL the possibles from within the system and give them some playing time. After that, do they jettison the waste and fluff? I mean, you can always find many of these guys on the waiver wire, i'm sorry. As a matter of fact, that is where you found these pieces to begin with, right?

 

There is not a lot of value on the 25-man roster beyond the players you really do want to keep, sadly. The value of the system is still in a flux.

 

The whole on-field staff issue has to be addressed again. You have to figure out why the minors are succeeding and what changes have to be made there.

 

And once the pieces come together, the Twins will be your dad's team again. Keep the faith. Enjoy the ride we had this year! Buy those cheap seats on StubHub in September and enjoy sitting in an empty section cheering some good play.

[DJSim22]

 

Yeah, the "world series or bust" mantra was never a part of Twins ownership or Twins brass (beyond GM chair at least)

I was chatting with a long time suite owner for the Twins and he gets facetime with DSP every year, he mentioned to me that DSP has said on more than one occasion that the goal isn't to win the world series or even go far in the playoffs. In fact he said that in  one conversation that the further along the Twins would go in the playoffs, the less profitability becomes.

I think a lot of this is because the majority of revenues come in from the TV contracts, corporate season tickets/suites. Basically as teams go further in the playoffs:

TV contracts stay the same, but costs go up (yeah they make it back in ticket sales, beer sales etc) but the profit margin is significantly smaller.

None of this is surprising, or really even upsetting, it's just the reality of how the Pohlads run this team (to be clear a lot of owners and teams view it like this as well)

 

Then DSP is an idiot.  If he can't see what a championship run would do to the franchise, he should really step down and move to ND.  Future media deals, ticket sales, ticket pricing, net worth, branding ect.

 

 

[Teflon]

Interesting factoid  - did you realize that the Twins were the defending AL champions the last time the Yankees had a losing record? I realize the Yankees have front offices piled to the rafters with gold ingots while the Twins carry my grandpa's old coin purse - but still.