Was the Plate Blocked for Dozier

[LimestoneBaggy]

I've seen a few questions on this one, and I hadn't seen an answer.

 

I had to look up Rule 7.13 again as I thought he was blocking the plate during the broadcast:

 

This is what I found (used the internet to find the rule, not 100% this is accurate):

 

"Unless the catcher is in possession of the ball, the catcher cannot block the pathway of the runner as he is attempting to score. If, in the judgment of the Umpire, the catcher, without possession of the ball, blocks the pathway of the runner, the Umpire shall call or signal the runner safe."

 

My opinion: 

 

If you pause the video at 17 seconds (slightly before the catcher has the ball), only part of the plate is blocked, but there is an area for Dozier to touch. He doesn't completely block the plate until he has the ball.

 

Good call by the ump.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v1617667283/nyymin-judge-throws-out-dozier-with-977mph-throw/?affiliateId=clubMEGAMENU

[ahart10]

I was under the impression that the catcher was to provide the outside lane of the plate.

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

I was under the impression that the catcher was to provide the outside lane of the plate.

 

I honestly don't know about this, but I would assume just by positioning (slightly to the front of the plate to shorten the path to the thrown ball), the catcher would naturally provide the outside lane.

[gunnarthor]

It's the Yankees. They cheated and got away with it.

[yarnivek1972]

The catcher wasn't blocking Dozier's pathway before he had the ball because Dozier wasn't close enough to reach the plate before the catcher had the ball to need a pathway.  

[Seth Stohs]

I don't know much about the rule. Obviously I wanted whatever would have made him safe.

 

But I also believe that the catcher needs to be allowed to go catch the ball if it's a foot or two up the line. 

[Thrylos]

From that video, a fraction of a second before the ball hit the catcher's glove on the bounce (right click and select view the image to enlarge)  Draw your own conclusions, but that paw and knee were blocking 100% of the plate, IMO.  Molitor should had challenged (and, yes, Dozier took his sweet time getting home and starting his slide way too early, but it is irrelevant)

 

[yarnivek1972]

In the image on the post, the catcher has the ball. You can tell because he's looking at Dozier, not the source of the throw. Dozier is not close enough to reach the plate yet. It isn't interference to block the plate without the ball unless the act prevents the baserunner from reaching the plate. The only thing preventing Dozier from reaching the plate was the fact that he didn't get there fast enough.

[h2oface]

 

I was under the impression that the catcher was to provide the outside lane of the plate.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/68267610/mlb-institutes-new-rule-on-home-plate-collisions/

 

I am understanding that it is a clear path to the plate, or a lane. Not necessarily the outside lane. I think catchers might be better off standing just behind the plate. The ball moves faster in the air than it does in the glove with a blind swipe tag attempt. Then the runner cannot initiate contact with the catcher either, because he still has a lane to the plate. The ball may hit the runner, at times, but most of the time the catcher will be able to see the play better and see where to get the tag down. 

 

Dozier, with a straight in slide, feet first - the standard baseball slide that is taught to all even at the most rudimentary levels - like the slide Mauer always uses - would have beat the tag. He can make contact with the catcher there. Sliding by the plate and reaching over.... that was the extra time the catcher needed.

 

"Runners are not required to slide, and catchers in possession of the ball are allowed to block the plate. However, runners who do slide and catchers who provide the runner with a lane will never be found in violation of the rule."

 

"If the runner slides into the plate in an appropriate manner, he shall not be adjudged to have violated Rule 7.13. A slide shall be deemed appropriate, in the case of a feet first slide, if the runner's buttocks and legs should hit the ground before contact with the catcher. In the case of a head first slide, a runner shall be deemed to have slid appropriately if his body should hit the ground before contact with the catcher."

[sftwinsfan]

If Dozier doesn't have to try to reach around the catcher blocking the plate, he's safe (Possible he was safe anyways, it was pretty close).  Slowing down the video he moves his foot over the plate prior to catching the ball.  I'm not sure if that is legal or not per the rules, but personally I've never agreed with that or other position players being able to throw their knee down blocking a runner from sliding into a base.  If you're standing there with the ball, fine, you can get in the way of the baserunner.  If you use another part of your body to physically block a guy from touching the base only to allow more time to apply a tag just doesn't seem right to me.  

[yarnivek1972]

Show me the evidence of Dozier being able to actually touch the plate before the catcher had the ball. I have yet to see it. Nor did whoever told Molitor not to challenge. And as I said, with it being a judgement call it likely isn't reviewable anyway.

[IndianaTwin]

 

 

 

Dozier, with a straight in slide, feet first - the standard baseball slide that is taught to all even at the most rudimentary levels - like the slide Mauer always uses - would have beat the tag. He can make contact with the catcher there. Sliding by the plate and reaching over.... that was the extra time the catcher needed.

 

 

 

Yes, yes, yes, and a thousand times yes. I have yet to hear an announcer point out that a runner's feet can easily be three feet past the hand that is reaching out to the side. Sure, you have better control of your hand to avoid the tag, but you don't need to avoid the tag if you beat it!

 

 

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

From that video, a fraction of a second before the ball hit the catcher's glove on the bounce (right click and select view the image to enlarge)  Draw your own conclusions, but that paw and knee were blocking 100% of the plate, IMO.  Molitor should had challenged (and, yes, Dozier took his sweet time getting home and starting his slide way too early, but it is irrelevant)

 

 

Show me the evidence of Dozier being able to actually touch the plate before the catcher had the ball. I have yet to see it. Nor did whoever told Molitor not to challenge. And as I said, with it being a judgement call it likely isn't reviewable anyway.

 

If you two can point me toward how to post a picture on my machine to the forums, I'll show you a series of pictures that led me to disagree with your thoughts.

[amjgt]

In the split second before it became clear that it was going to be a close play, my brain quickly though..." Wow. Either Dozier got a terrible jump or he's just coasting into home"

 

My guess is that he didn't think it was going to be that close and/or he had no idea what Judge's arm was like.

 

As for the play at the plate. In the literalist reading of the rule, it MIGHT not have been blocking. But in common sense viewing, he was definitely blocking

[Otto von Ballpark]

Bigger question: has the plate ever been blocked for Colon?

[jimbo92107]

 

I don't know much about the rule. Obviously I wanted whatever would have made him safe.

 

But I also believe that the catcher needs to be allowed to go catch the ball if it's a foot or two up the line. 

If we are concerned with fairness and avoiding injuries, then it seems reasonable that the catcher should not block the plate with anything other than a glove full of baseball. Otherwise, we're back to the Buster Posey problem, where a catcher is vulnerable to a runner crashing through, not with his hand like Dozier, but with his foot into the catcher's foot, or a football-style collision. If Dozier slides in with his foot, his shoe would go right through the catcher's foot. That could easily break a bone for either player. The solution is for the catcher to allow the runner 1/2 of the plate, unless he is reaching for the runner with a ball in his glove.

[LimestoneBaggy]

Thanks to TwinsNorth49, hopefully I have this figured out. Fair disclaimer, the angle isn't the greatest.

 

Here we go. 

 

 

In this photo, shortly before the ball is there, the plate appears to be wide open (potentially top corner closed, but a clear running path is available).

 

 

Fraction of a second later, foot covers the top section of the plate, but middle and back corner are left open.

 

 

Fraction of a second later, catcher has the ball, and the plate appears to be blocked.

 

I can see the argument against this play (and the rule certainly benefits the catcher), but he had the ball, and then moved to block the plate. By rule, this seems allowable. 

[twinsnorth49]

Thanks to TwinsNorth49, hopefully I have this figured out. Fair disclaimer, the angle isn't the greatest.

 

Here we go.

 

DZ1.JPG

 

In this photo, shortly before the ball is there, the plate appears to be wide open (potentially top corner closed, but a clear running path is available).

 

DZ2.JPG

 

Fraction of a second later, foot covers the top section of the plate, but middle and back corner are left open.

 

DZ3.JPG

 

Fraction of a second later, catcher has the ball, and the plate appears to be blocked.

 

I can see the argument against this play (and the rule certainly benefits the catcher), but he had the ball, and then moved to block the plate. By rule, this seems allowable.

Well done, appears to me you're absolutely correct. Nice call by the umpire.

 

But the Yankees are still cheating SOB's .

[LimestoneBaggy]

twinsnorth49, on 20 Jul 2017 - 1:01 PM, said: 

 

Well done, appears to me you're absolutely correct. Nice call by the umpire.

But the Yankees are still cheating SOB's .

 

I want you to know that all of my children have worn this bib.....

 

 

The Yankees are the worst......
 

[big dog]

 

Well done, appears to me you're absolutely correct. Nice call by the umpire.

But the Yankees are still cheating SOB's .

And the league pays the umpires to let them get away with it...?  Gotta be a good conspiracy theory in here somewhere.  I blame Joe Torre.

[twinsnorth49]

twinsnorth49, on 20 Jul 2017 - 1:01 PM, said:

 

I want you to know that all of my children have worn this bib.....

 

Bib.jpg

 

The Yankees are the worst......

 

You're a wonderful parent.