Twins buyers for long term assets at the trade deadline

[Richie the Rally Goat]

In an interview with Mark Feinsand with MLB.com, Thad Levine had some interesting comments.

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/239262334/twins-surprising-but-keeping-eye-on-long-term/

 

From the article:

________________________

"I don't think we view it as we're just one piece away and we're not looking to finish off this club; we're looking to continue to build this club. We have a lot of core pieces that have a chance to be part of something special in the future, but we're cognizant that we're going to need to add to that core."

 

"Some teams know where they are because they walked into the season with a clearer sense of where they were going to be. Where we are today vs. where people thought we were going to be at this point in the season is quite different. I think the Twins are one of the teams that will play this out as long as possible and allow for itself to kind of pivot one way or the other based upon how the rest of June and July ultimately unfolds."

________________________

 

In reading forums here, this seems to jive with some posters interpretations/predictions for how the FO will operate, and others this is a bit of a departure. For me, this is exactly what I want to hear. I don't want to see key players depart for lottery tickets 2-3 years away, but players with several seasons of team control are expensive. 

 

How does this fit with your view of the team situation and FO expectations?

 

What kind of trade scenarios do you envision?

[nicksaviking]

"I just don't think we're going to go all in to try to win this year," Levine said. "We're going to try to put ourselves in the best position to win, but with an eye toward now and the future. We're not a mature team that has a window that's wide-open or closing; we're trying to see how far we can push this season as we're cracking this window open, and we're going to treat it accordingly.

 

"I don't think we view it as we're just one piece away and we're not looking to finish off this club; we're looking to continue to build this club. We have a lot of core pieces that have a chance to be part of something special in the future, but we're cognizant that we're going to need to add to that core."

 

Phew.

 

That's all I wanted to hear. Win if you can this year, just don't do anything to sabotage the team for when they are actually ready to win it all.

 

I'd like to see if there is a fit to get Archie Bradley. Wish he wasn't doing so well in the bullpen this year, but those are the kinds of moves I'd like to see.

 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

I like the fact that Levine said they're open to being aggressive trading for MLB assets with multiple years of control. That would be exactly what I, and I'm sure others, would want to improve the pitching. 

 

I've been beating this drum for a little while now. This organization has a surplus of middle IF prospects and players. Target a SP like Gray, Cole, Quintana, etc. and sell off some prospects to get an established SP. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd like to see if there is a fit to get Archie Bradley. Wish he wasn't doing so well in the bullpen this year, but those are the kinds of moves I'd like to see.

The Diamondbacks aren't looking like sellers. Just 2 games off the Astros for best record in MLB!

[Brandon]

Thats what i was expecting the Twins to be this year. Maybe trading a low level prospect for a reliever and maybe an innings eating starter or a starter with long term control like Sonny Gray. That still leaves room for younger guys to come up and get an opportunity while being competetive this year and not giving away the farm. Also if we will have a roster crunch at the end of the year it makes sense to trade and consolidate a few prospects into a different long term asset so we dont risk loosing alot in next rule 5 draft.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thats what i was expecting the Twins to be this year. Maybe trading a low level prospect for a reliever and maybe an innings eating starter or a starter with long term control like Sonny Gray. That still leaves room for younger guys to come up and get an opportunity while being competetive this year and not giving away the farm. Also if we will have a roster crunch at the end of the year it makes sense to trade and consolidate a few prospects into a different long term asset so we dont risk loosing alot in next rule 5 draft.

 

Has any team ever done that last part? I can't think of anyone.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Pretty sure to buy meaningful long-term assets, we'd have to trade some of our future, no? Doubtful that we're getting Gray or Cole or whomever with scraps...

[Mike Sixel]

 

Pretty sure to buy meaningful long-term assets, we'd have to trade some of our future, no? Doubtful that we're getting Gray or Cole or whomever with scraps...

 

Gordon and at least one other legit SP prospect, I'd guess, for Cole. 

[Riverbrian]

Just let the team decide what to do and support them in whatever direction they travel. 

 

If they go into a tailspin and fall out of the race. Support the team by acquiring some future assets that will help in the coming years. 

 

If they remain in the hunt and keep defying all logic and prognostications... Support them by letting them continue doing what they are doing. They don't have to sell the farm to support them... leaving them alone to continue doing what they are doing is support as well. 

 

I hope they let the team decide what they do in July. 

[gunnarthor]

I think a lot might depend on how the Twins FO and other teams view Gonsalves, Romero and Jorge but the Twins probably have the pieces to get something but it might not be the top shelf return.

 

Instead of Sonny Gray, could the Twins nab Jharel Cotton?

[drjim]

 

Pretty sure to buy meaningful long-term assets, we'd have to trade some of our future, no? Doubtful that we're getting Gray or Cole or whomever with scraps...

 

They can probably trade a middle infielder and Rosario plus most of their prospects. Not sure what long term asset this can net, pitching generally seems overpriced and everyday players underpriced at the deadline.

[nicksaviking]

 

The Diamondbacks aren't looking like sellers. Just 2 games off the Astros for best record in MLB!

 

Right, and they currently have Bradley in the pen. He seems like the kind of piece a team trying to win now would have to give up to fill a hole. Perhaps at 2B considering they have a team OPS of .693 against left handed pitchers. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Gordon and at least one other legit SP prospect, I'd guess, for Cole. 

Would Gordon and Del Rosario get it done?

[DocBauer]

Were no another team looking to trade with the Twins, I'd be looking at Rosario and one of Romero or Gonsalvez as my starting point. If also be looking hard at Gordon.

 

The potential problem of dealing Gordon is you then have to commit to Dozier. Not saying that is a bad thing, but a must. Polanco is good and going to get better. I like both Escobar and Adrianza, but like them best in the roles they occupy now. Vienna has a chance, but the other infield prospects are down in the low minors. Perhaps one of them might be included in place of Gordon?

 

And while I'm not calling for a trade of Dozier at all, what if he were moved, along with keeping Gordon, for prospects to be included in a deal, or to return a couple prospects to replace those traded?

[rghrbek]

 

Would Gordon and Del Rosario get it done?

I don't think so.  Del Rosario is a low A ball kid...my guess it would have to be someone more established...

[lukeduke1980]

How about a scott feldman type straight up for Kyle Gibson?  

[nicksaviking]

Is Garrit Cole really a front line starter? He hasn't really done anything overly exciting for a couple of years. With his modest strikeout numbers and suddenly high HR/9 are we sure he's anything better than a 3-4 in the AL? His peripherals aren't saying he's having bad luck or anything, they're just saying he's an average pitcher.

 

And he's got name brand recognition, so he's going to cost 1-2 value in return.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Is Garrit Cole really a front line starter? He hasn't really done anything overly exciting for a couple of years. With his modest strikeout numbers and suddenly high HR/9 are we sure he's anything better than a 3-4 in the AL? His peripherals aren't saying he's having bad luck or anything, they're just saying he's an average pitcher.

 

And he's got name brand recognition, so he's going to cost 1-2 value in return.

 

I'd be thrilled to add a 3 for the next 2.5 or 3.5 years....thrilled.

[markos]

I really struggle with this. On this day in 2015 the Twins were 40-35. Young team, window opening up, needing long-term pieces, etc, etc. One could have made this exact same argument back then (in fact, I think many people on this site did to one degree or another, myself included). But looking back, would this team be any better off if they had used, say, Kepler and/or Berrios to go out and get Cole Hamels or Troy Tulowitzki. Part of me really wants them to wait, collect more info about what they might have in Gordon, Gonsalves and Romero, and re-evaluate over the offseason. Besides, it is reasonable to think that long-term pieces might be less expensive at that point as well.

[markos]

 

Is Garrit Cole really a front line starter? He hasn't really done anything overly exciting for a couple of years. With his modest strikeout numbers and suddenly high HR/9 are we sure he's anything better than a 3-4 in the AL? His peripherals aren't saying he's having bad luck or anything, they're just saying he's an average pitcher.

 

And he's got name brand recognition, so he's going to cost 1-2 value in return.

Is anyone available right now (Gray, Cole, ??) a true front line starter? Cole and Gray at least have a past history of that level of performance, and so there is some hope. Regardless, even second-tier guys cost a lot - it is the cost of doing business in the pitching market. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

They can probably trade a middle infielder and Rosario plus most of their prospects. Not sure what long term asset this can net, pitching generally seems overpriced and everyday players underpriced at the deadline.

Trading Rosario or Polanco could probably net... a long term asset like Rosario or Polanco.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'd be thrilled to add a 3 for the next 2.5 or 3.5 years....thrilled.

add with him a 4-5 with options remaining still on the rookie (Mejia type) and now your cooking

[Otto von Ballpark]

Right, and they currently have Bradley in the pen. He seems like the kind of piece a team trying to win now would have to give up to fill a hole. Perhaps at 2B considering they have a team OPS of .693 against left handed pitchers.

But Bradley is a highly leveraged part of their pen. Competitive MLB teams don't trade those guys in 2017, they try to ride them to a title. They probably see him as their Andrew Miller.

 

Also, the Diamondbacks have Drury at 2B with a 104 wRC+ overall versus Dozier's 101. True, Drury has struggled this season vs LHP, but he is a RHB and it is only 65 PA. He had a 105 wRC+ in 141 PA vs LHP last year.

 

I think they'd need to bring back Dave Stewart before you could realistically pitch Bradley for Dozier.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'd be thrilled to add a 3 for the next 2.5 or 3.5 years....thrilled.

 

Yeah, but I don't want to give up the kinds of prospects it normally would take to get an ace to get a #3. A #3 I am skeptical that can succeed in the AL.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, but I don't want to give up the kinds of prospects it normally would take to get an ace to get a #3. A #3 I am skeptical that can succeed in the AL.

 

In fairness, I was responding to getting a 3, not him in particular. I'm also not convinced, btw, that "name" matters to FOs for the most part (outside Washington and a few other spots).

[nicksaviking]

But Bradley is a highly leveraged part of their pen. Competitive MLB teams don't trade those guys in 2017, they try to ride them to a title. They probably see him as their Andrew Miller.

 

Also, the Diamondbacks have Drury at 2B with a 104 wRC+ overall versus Dozier's 101. True, Drury has struggled this season vs LHP, but he is a RHB and it is only 65 PA. He had a 105 wRC+ in 141 PA vs LHP last year.

 

I think they'd need to bring back Dave Stewart before you could realistically pitch Bradley for Dozier.

Well I was mostly just spitballing, but I doubt AZ nor Bradley's agent sees him in the pen long term so there likely would be people looking to get him into a rotation, either in AZ or elsewhere.

 

Drury can be useful, but he's also an outfielder, and both he and Thomas shouldn't be hitting against lefties.

 

But again, it was mostly spitballing. I've mentioned I'd be interested in trying to get a Zack Wheeler. Maybe a Michael Wacha. Someone who has fallen off the map a bit but is still controllable.

[nicksaviking]

 

In fairness, I was responding to getting a 3, not him in particular. I'm also not convinced, btw, that "name" matters to FOs for the most part (outside Washington and a few other spots).

 

Name probably doesn't matter. I've just heard a lot about Cole being a big time target, not just here but everywhere. I just don't get the hype anymore. 

 

And to be fair on my part, if he was currently being treated as one of the guys I listed in my other post who had fallen from grace a bit and thus likely couldn't return a king's ransom, I'd be interested in him.

[Thrylos]

I agree with that position.  I think that the Twins this deadline should be "flippers".  Flipping older assets for younger who can contribute wright away.  Ervin Santana is one of them.  He could potentially help a young club like Colorado, and the Twins can have a package anchored by someone like Jeff Hoffman with 4 years of club control who is their 4th starter, has phenomenal numbers outside Coors and might even perform better than Santana down the line for the Twins.

 

Same with Dozier.  Knock at the Dodgers door again and see if you can have someone like Brock Stewart or Scott Barlow along with someone like Joe Broussard, who could plug in the Twins rotation and pen right away.  Throw in Hector Santiago if you have too, he is someone the Dodgers can use as a back of the rotation insurance.

 

These are the type of deals they should be making, other than potentially going for a younger Ace like Archer.  I would not put Cole or Grey in that category, but I wouldn't mind sending 3-4 prospects (everyone other than Romero & Gordon - who should be Dozier's replacement should be touchable) Tampa's way for Archer

[Otto von Ballpark]

Drury can be useful, but he's also an outfielder, and both he and Thomas shouldn't be hitting against lefties.

 

Drury has been their everyday 2B this year, and defensive metrics suggest he might be doing all right with the conversion.

 

And both Drury and Tomas are RHB. Tomas for his career is better vs LHP than RHP, and Drury is basically the same vs LHP as RHP. I wouldn't read too much into half-season platoon splits (or even full season platoon splits, look at Justin Turner last year).

 

Tomas should probably be replaced for other reasons, of course. I could see them targeting an outfielder, but nothing that would cost Bradley.

[Willihammer]

Last week an SI writer suggested the Twins could trade their center fielder (Buxton) for pitching. I wonder if a team like the Mets or Giants would be interested. 

 

Third time's the charm?