An Upside Down World

[nicksaviking]

 

But some are arguing that it was acceptable, some even that it was the best response.
We know that in an active shooter scenario, he's supposed to enter. Period. It's bizzare to me that some are implying they know better than his supervisors what he's supposed to do there.

I have no problem saying he was wrong, he didn't follow protocol, but he doesn't need to be punished. Perfectly fair take. And, despite my personal opinion, probably the correct one.

But some are insisting that he didn't even do anything wrong, despite incredibly obvious statements from his supervisors, and other law enforcement that he didn't do what he was supposed to do.

I'd think the best way to fight the NRA on "good guy with a gun" would be to insist that law enforcement handle it. By saying it's acceptable for law enforcement to stand by and do nothing, it just opens the door for the argument that, "if the cops won't do anything, we need to arm teachers and citizens who will."

The cop should have gone in. It's unacceptable and disgusting to me that he didn't, and his supervisors have used those same descriptors.

I'm moving on from my liability opinion. It's very unlikely, and probably not constructive.

 

Why are you relying on his superiors to judge him? They are the ones who need to be held accountable considering how many reports about the shooter were filed prior to the massacre. The Sheriff is a flat out lunatic:

 

Asked whether the killings at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS might have been averted if his office followed up on a slew of prior calls about the shooter being mentally unhinged, Sheriff Scott Israel responded with an absurd answer.

 

“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, OJ Simpson would still be in the record books,” he said.

 

An incredulous Tapper asked, “Are you really not taking any responsibility for the multiple red flags that were brought to the attention of the Broward sheriff’s office about this shooter before this incident, whether it was people near him, close to him calling the police?”

 

Israel replied, “Jake, I can only take responsibility for what I knew about. I exercised my due diligence. I’ve given amazing leadership to this agency.”

 

Tapper shot back, “Amazing leadership?”

 

This guy has no business being anyone's boss let alone sheriff, probably because the public safety the sheriff's office is supposed to provide should not be run by someone who is elected to the job but instead by someone who has proven worthy through related experiences.

 

Oh, and this sheriff who is such an expert followed all that up with this:

 

Tapper said Israel’s office listed 23 incidents involving Cruz and asked why nothing was done to keep a gun out of his hands, secure the school or keep an eye on him.

 

“On 16 of those cases, our deputies did everything right. Our deputies have done amazing things. … In five years, we’ve taken the Broward Sheriff’s Department to new levels,” he said.

 

So this wonderboy acknowledges that there were 23 incidents involving the shooter and SIXTEEN were handled property as if a 70% rate is anything to brag about! Let alone NOT TAKING ACTION AFTER INCIDENT #2!

 

If this deputy knew that his training from his incompetent sheriff was as substandard as his boss clearly is, yeah, he knows his odds of making it out of that school alive are slim. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Actually, at least one poster is disputing that he should have gone in.

And I already stated that I'm moving on from my opinion that he should be held liable. I admitted that it's probably not constructive. Although, I will point out that the military holds people criminally liable if they abandon their duty.

 

I'm all for calling back our troops from the middle east and finding law enforcement jobs for them.

 

But our police officers are not supposed to be military personnel.

[Craig Arko]

Maybe the deputies all had problems with bone spurs.

[Riverbrian]

 

Why are you relying on his superiors to judge him? They are the ones who need to be held accountable considering how many reports about the shooter were filed prior to the massacre. The Sheriff is a flat out lunatic:

 

Asked whether the killings at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS might have been averted if his office followed up on a slew of prior calls about the shooter being mentally unhinged, Sheriff Scott Israel responded with an absurd answer.

 

“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, OJ Simpson would still be in the record books,” he said.

 

An incredulous Tapper asked, “Are you really not taking any responsibility for the multiple red flags that were brought to the attention of the Broward sheriff’s office about this shooter before this incident, whether it was people near him, close to him calling the police?”

 

Israel replied, “Jake, I can only take responsibility for what I knew about. I exercised my due diligence. I’ve given amazing leadership to this agency.”

 

Tapper shot back, “Amazing leadership?”

 

This guy has no business being anyone's boss let alone sheriff, probably because the public safety the sheriff's office is supposed to provide should not be run by someone who is elected to the job but instead by someone who has proven worthy through related experiences.

 

Oh, and this sheriff who is such an expert followed all that up with this:

 

Tapper said Israel’s office listed 23 incidents involving Cruz and asked why nothing was done to keep a gun out of his hands, secure the school or keep an eye on him.

 

“On 16 of those cases, our deputies did everything right. Our deputies have done amazing things. … In five years, we’ve taken the Broward Sheriff’s Department to new levels,” he said.

 

So this wonderboy acknowledges that there were 23 incidents involving the shooter and SIXTEEN were handled property as if a 70% rate is anything to brag about! Let alone NOT TAKING ACTION AFTER INCIDENT #2!

 

If this deputy knew that his training from his incompetent sheriff was as substandard as his boss clearly is, yeah, he knows his odds of making it out of that school alive are slim. 

 

This Israel guy has (I assume) never experienced anything like the media crush he got hit with and he dropped the ball. I think we can all assume that the investigation is still in progress and for him to make such statements as "sick to my stomach" has to be extremely premature and certainly isn't typical of press conferences from law enforcement leaders who are usually very careful of what information they release while an investigation is still in progress. 

 

Even if he knew without a doubt that Peterson was indeed a coward... You typically don't see supervisors throw employees under the bus like that. It certainly lacks a basic understanding of what happens next because he turned him into human chum in that environment. I can say that I would personally hate to work for a guy like that and I would have to imagine that his employees have seen him now... when the **** hits the fan. 

 

I thought that Peterson was going to become the primary target of the far right to change the debate.

 

Turns out it's going to be Israel with 74 Florida House Republicans already calling for his suspension.

 

Nobody is going to wait until the investigation is complete because everyone is running on emotion and a big time offense forces immediate defense, and nobody has the time because those kids have been incredible.   

 

This has been very interesting to watch because the NRA has never been punched like this.   

 

 

[Riverbrian]

It boggles my mind but the Georgia Lt. Governor threatened to kill a 40 million dollar fuel tax break for Delta (not just Delta... other airlines as well) because they publicly announced that they will no longer offer DISCOUNTS to NRA members in an attempt to remain neutral.

 

So now we have politicians creating a potential 1st amendment issue in order to protect their 2nd amendment views.

 

We have Pro Business Republicans who were arguing that the tax breaks were good for business changing direction on a dime. OVER DISCOUNTS!!! And at the behest of the NRA I'm sure. The NRA has to make an immediate display that they still have the power to make politicians dance. 

 

Delta issued a statement saying it continues to support the 2nd amendment which I think is hilarious because you have an airline, or any business for that matter, having to make that declaration. I haven't seen Waffle House issue a statement saying it continues to support the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th or 22nd amendment in order to keep a segment of people buying waffles. 

 

Meanwhile Delta is the states leading private employer. They've probably invested too much into Hartfield to move to Charlotte or Nashville in response so they will probably have to ride it out but it's pretty strange to see state representatives saying they are going to kick the states leading private employer in the nuts. Especially when you consider what they promise companies to entice them to build new business in their states for the money and jobs they create. Amazon has been looking at Atlanta... They may want to look again. 

 

The Lt. Governor... meanwhile. Plans on running for Governor and knows the NRA Members vote in Georgia. So... get elected and then worry fixing any damage you've done. 

 

You seriously can't make this **** up.

 

I'm getting some popcorn and I'm going to watch this one closely from the bleachers.

 

If you ever want to watch politics at it's very worst... Here it comes.

[nicksaviking]

 

This Israel guy has (I assume) never experienced anything like the media crush he got hit with and he dropped the ball. I think we can all assume that the investigation is still in progress and for him to make such statements as "sick to my stomach" has to be extremely premature and certainly isn't typical of press conferences from law enforcement leaders who are usually very careful of what information they release while an investigation is still in progress. 

 

Even if he knew without a doubt that Peterson was indeed a coward... You typically don't see supervisors throw employees under the bus like that. It certainly lacks a basic understanding of what happens next because he turned him into human chum in that environment. I can say that I would personally hate to work for a guy like that and I would have to imagine that his employees have seen him now... when the **** hits the fan. 

 

I thought that Peterson was going to become the primary target of the far right to change the debate.

 

Turns out it's going to be Israel with 74 Florida House Republicans already calling for his suspension.

 

Nobody is going to wait until the investigation is complete because everyone is running on emotion and a big time offense forces immediate defense, and nobody has the time because those kids have been incredible.   

 

This has been very interesting to watch because the NRA has never been punched like this.   

 

And frankly, his statements sounded like they were taken right out of the Trump playbook.

[TheLeviathan]

Trump is a bag of contradictions right now.  He echoes NRA talking points one day and then tells the governors to fight the NRA sometimes.

 

Which, in my opinion, is nothing more than him trying to please everyone at the same time.  And we all know how that works.  (And, more importantly, the results it yields)

[D. Hocking]

 

Trump is a bag of contradictions right now.  He echoes NRA talking points one day and then tells the governors to fight the NRA sometimes.

 

Which, in my opinion, is nothing more than him trying to please everyone at the same time.  And we all know how that works.  (And, more importantly, the results it yields)

 

He was doing that with some of the DACA issues as well - he would talk to one group (Chuck and Nancy) and tell them one thing, then someone else (Steve Miller, Tom Cotton) would whisper in his ear and he would change his position and fall back into the party line.  He would then blame the other party when the deal fell through completely ignoring the fact that he completely went back on what he told and in some cases even promised them.

 

I am not sure this is even trying to please all people, it is him wanting to look good.  He also has a cursory knowledge of what is going and does not know the substantive facts backing things up or any real conviction on the issues, that he is easy to sway by whoever is talking to him at the moment.

 

I am guessing when it comes down to the wire, he will end up following the NRA line, or at the least, not put any true support to the non-NRA side, that it won't get the backing it needs from Congress.  The deal will then fall through and he will blame everyone else but himself.

[TheLeviathan]

Pretty much exactly my take.  Though one wildcard here is we have seen Trump motivated by emotional reactions towards children in Syria, perhaps this will fall in line with that.

 

But like you, I expect him to eventually protect the NRA.

[ashbury]

I have the same general take, except to note that the self-styled master of the Art of the Deal would by nature prefer to keep a general fog among all the participants in a negotiation, so that he can be poised to profit by any mistakes or misunderstandings. Some of the seeming duplicity might not be so much intentional as something he prefers not to correct too greatly after it happens. Instinct over many years.

[D. Hocking]

Georgia went through and passed the legislation - they were more concerned about upsetting their NRA Overlords than harming the State's largest employer that they passed law to punish Delta, simply because they no longer offered the NRA discount.   Not only could this eventually cause Delta to leave, but is not going to inspire other companies to move there.  I am guessing this probably caused them to fall off of Amazon's short list.  Not necessarily due to the NRA angle, but I would think any company would be wary now that the state assembly might punish them if they do something they do not like.

 

Georgia also passed a law that allows adoption agencies to turn down same-sex couples.  Another move that is most likely not going to have a positive long-term affect (not to mention being a s*&tty thing to do in general).  

 

Not that powerful lobbyists have not been a problem having too much say for awhile, it seems like it has gotten much worse the last few years.  I am guessing Citizen's United has a lot to do with that.  If the GOP even loses power, they need to somehow get some legislation passed to weaken that case.

[Riverbrian]

Delta basically has control of the Hartsfield Airport and they have probably invested quite a bit into the location so I’d be surprised if they left Georgia although I would Love to see it just for the pure entertainment.

 

I do believe you right about other new businesses at least on the mega end of the spectrum like Amazon. A petty retaliation like this would make me think twice.

 

You seriously can’t make this **** up.

[Mr. Brooks]

Disturbing story out of a Detroit suburb.

14 year old black boy misses his school bus, knocks on a neighborhood door to ask for directions.

Homeowner assumes that the only reason a black kid would be at his door, is to rob him, so he shoots at him with a shotgun.

 

Thankfully, he missed, and the boy is okay.

[TheLeviathan]

I hope he's charged with attempted murder.

[Squirrel]

Some States have a ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ type laws. They are vague and tend to defend these biases.

[ashbury]

Some States have a ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ type laws. They are vague and tend to defend these biases.

Some states seem to think that "suspicion of attempted armed robbery" is a capital crime.

[Mr. Brooks]

I hope he's charged with attempted murder.

To update, he has indeed been arraigned on attempted murder, and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony charges.

 

And his recording doorbell captured the incident, so they should have a pretty strong case.

[Mr. Brooks]

Two different schools this week, one in Texas, one in Wisconsin - with the WI incident being 4th grade- asked students to list the good/positive parts of slavery.

[Mike Sixel]

Two different schools this week, one in Texas, one in Wisconsin - with the WI incident being 4th grade- asked students to list the good/positive parts of slavery.

Wut?

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah....link?  I'm curious on the context.  (Not that it makes it ok or anything, just hard to fathom)

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah....link? I'm curious on the context. (Not that it makes it ok or anything, just hard to fathom)

Texas 8th grade class:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-slavery-lesson-20180421-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

Wisconsin 4th grade class:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-school-slavery-homework-20180111-story,amp.html

[TheLeviathan]

A charter and religious school behind it?  I'm shocked and aghast!

 

 

[ashbury]

Two different schools this week, one in Texas, one in Wisconsin - with the WI incident being 4th grade- asked students to list the good/positive parts of slavery.

For extra credit, class, define the N-word and give three examples.

[Badsmerf]

Waffle house killer had his guns taken away twice. His father returned them to him, or the dude stole them back. Considering one was find in his apartment, I'm guessing he was given them back. This is a clear example of how targeted gun control can work. The families of the victims should sue everybody they can.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Texas 8th grade class:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-slavery-lesson-20180421-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Wisconsin 4th grade class:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-school-slavery-homework-20180111-story,amp.html

What the holy **** is wrong with people?

[Mr. Brooks]

Waffle house killer had his guns taken away twice. His father returned them to him, or the dude stole them back. Considering one was find in his apartment, I'm guessing he was given them back. This is a clear example of how targeted gun control can work. The families of the victims should sue everybody they can.

The father should face criminal charges, IMO.

[TheLeviathan]

I can already feel the warming glow of "thoughts and prayers" that I'm sure, any day now, will fix everything.  

[Mike Sixel]

28 school shootings this year. Unreal.

[Mike Sixel]

A 7 year old MN child accidentally killed himself with a gun he found Wednesday....

[PseudoSABR]