Should Have Put Gibson in the Pen!

[strumdatjaguar]

I think Gibson would be able to focus better on 1-2 innings.  I'm worried about his ability to focus on pitching many innings as a starter.   No amount of time in the minors will do it for him.  It's time to convert him to a role in relief.  He certainly has more ability than most of this putrid pen.  No trades for relievers.  Wait for Chargois, Burdi, Reed, Melo, Jay . . . Things will go better as some of these pitchers prove their worth as others prove their lack of it.

[strumdatjaguar]

I suspect the Twins and Red Wings plan to use him as a starter.  Why not convert him into a reliever like they did with Rick Aguilera?   This is a pitcher in whcih the Twins have invested much time and hope.   Put him in a different setting and see what he can do!

[SirLoin]

I felt like they should have demoted him to the bullpen, instead of AAA....but that's neither here nor there...

[Danchat]

The Twins are so desperate for starters, I'm thinking they're keeping him as a starter. I do wonder if he could thrive as a reliever a la Liam Hendriks, but some here have stated that he wouldn't profile well for the bullpen.

[DaveW]

Gibson seems to melt down in high leverage situations, also he doesn't strike anybody out or throw particularly hard, I don't see how he is a fit in in the bullpen. Unless he can become a 7th or 8th inning guy, it's probably just worth trying to trade him, or stash him in AAA for when they inevitably need him.

[DocBauer]

I do not fault the idea, or your sentiment, and you could be right. It may, indeed, prove to be the best role for him: throw hard, throw only your best couple of pitches, dont face anyone more than once.

 

The counter argument would be, even with Berrios up sometime soon, the Twins are going to need another starter. Not trying to be overly optimistic here, but what if all the encouraging things we initially heard about his new approach and overall solid performance in ST comes to fruition with some time at Rochester and he can come back at least solid? Or, what if solid results with the Wings could entice some team in need to make a deal for a solid prospect?

 

I think the bigger question is, why someone like Rucinski for the pen vs Baxendale or even Wimmers? Baxendale offers youth and upside. Wimmers had a strong 2016 and ST before beginning this season hot and cold. But even he offers some upside vs a quad-A journeyman.

[DocBauer]

Sorry, but as a follow-up, I think Gibson's biggest problem is fear. When I watch him pitch, he just doesn't seem to trust himself or his stuff. He seems to nibble instead of attacking. It's as if he's just afraid of making a mistake. And that always seems to lead to...you guessed it...a mistake.

[OldFartAtPlay]

I think it wasn't a bad thing to send him down. Perhaps a bit of shock treatment to get his attention? I think it might be good for all concerned to see how he does in a relief situation. He does have some native ability, it just seems like he doesn't always believe it. I have to admit I wasn't terribly impressed with Mr. Tepesch or Mr. Rucinski, but I am wiling to see how the Front Office adjusts. I still think Gibson could be useful.

 

[jud6312]

Not that I really want Rucinski around all that badly, but he's only 2 years older than Baxendale. Does 26 vs. 28 really offer that much extra youth and upside? Numbers wise, their minor league careers actually look somewhat comparable. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Disagree. Doesn't have the mental fortitude to focus on one batter at a time. That's how he punched his ticket to Rochester in the first place.

[kab21]

 

Gibson seems to melt down in high leverage situations, also he doesn't strike anybody out or throw particularly hard, I don't see how he is a fit in in the bullpen. Unless he can become a 7th or 8th inning guy, it's probably just worth trying to trade him, or stash him in AAA for when they inevitably need him.

We have seen pitcher's velocities and K rates significantly change when moving to the bullpen. I think we have a really good idea of what kind of starting pitcher Gibson is. The bullpen might be his ticket to being a pretty good pitcher.

But right now he can't be successful anywhere. Something is wrong.

[mlhouse]

 

Not that I really want Rucinski around all that badly, but he's only 2 years older than Baxendale. Does 26 vs. 28 really offer that much extra youth and upside? Numbers wise, their minor league careers actually look somewhat comparable. 

 

I get that Baxendale doesn't have much upside, but he and several other pitchers at Rochester are essentially getting to the end of their professional baseball careers, so why not call them up and give them a chance?

 

David Hurlbut is 27 years old and in his 7th year in the Twins organization, and is posting a 1.61 ERA at Rochester.  Why not give him a chance instead of a retread like Tepesch?  Or Trevor Hildenberger, 26 years old, 5 years in the Twins organization, and has a career 1.55 ERA in the minor leagues.  Why not give him a look instead of Rucinski?  If they don't make it, they don't make it and then give Baxendale, 26 years old, 6 years in Twins organization and Jason Wheeler, also 26 and 6 years in Twins organization a chance to demonstrate if they can make it on a MLB rotation?

 

I don't think any of these 4 will pitch any worse than Tepesch or Rucinski have at the major league level and I would rather watch them than these retreads, and I think it says something about your loyalty to your franchise to give them the opportunity.  Hurlbut and Hildenberger, with their current performance in AAA have definetely earned it, arguably more than Tepesch or Rucinski even.    David Hurlbut has a career ERA of 3.17 over his minor league career.  Nick Tepesch 3.52.  Hildeberger has a career ERA of 1.55, Rucinski 4.52. Thats higher than Baxendale's, 3.78 and Wheeler 3.70.

 

So, why does the Twins management prefer these retreads to players that have worked their way up our minor league system and played well?

[HitInAPinch]

At best, a "wing and a prayer" move.  The FO was able to trade Danny Santana.  I expect more of the same to clear out roster space.

[Platoon]

There is validity to the viewpoint that Gibson doesn't handle adversity well. But there is also this point. He has been around long enough that he is basically not going to get any better as a starter. I know they are desperate for starters, but they also are desperate for RP. Mays SO numbers and velocity improved in the pen, but his body was not accepting the role. Maybe Gibsons would. He is nearing the stage of "what do we have to lose"? As for the mention above of leaving players ferment in Rochester for years, it's always seemed a team hallmark. Bring in a guy you know will fail, vs bring up a guy you think will fail. I never have figured it out. Hopefully Falvine will!

[goulik]

I think, believe, hope that some things we are seeing are hints of what we are not able to see. Falvey/Lavine are supposedly bringing in a new metrics based way of coaching up pitchers. I see Tepesch and Rucinski as place holders easily dumped later while the future gets a feel for some mystical new way of thinking. Leadership always has to remain long term focused.

[Riverbrian]

I don't know if a move to the pen will help Gibson or not.

 

However... make it more of a two way street please.

 

How about flipping some bullpen guys into starters. Yeah... I know... they are in the bullpen for a reason... haven't been stretched out... I know.  All I can say is... it's been done before and the consideration isn't completely without merit. 

 

We can't keep shoving our failed starters into the pen without replacing the starters. 

 

Starting Depth is critically low. 

 

The Twins will need to consider Duffey and maybe even Rogers for the rotation at some point this year. 

 

 

[strumdatjaguar]

Gibson starts for Rochester in tonight's game.   I truly think the Twins should see if he could fit in a different role.  The definition of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[Head 1st into 1st]

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am getting real sick of waiting for these young bullpen arms.  We spent the better part of 3-4 drafts drafting college bullpen arms.  One of them is currently on the squad now, but how much longer do we have to wait for these quick to the majors arms.  Since when does a team spend 10+ top 5 picks on relievers and then develop them as if they were high school arms...one year at A-, one year at A+, one year at AA, and now some are in Rochester...this is getting old   #dejavu  

[DaveW]

 

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am getting real sick of waiting for these young bullpen arms.  We spent the better part of 3-4 drafts drafting college bullpen arms.  One of them is currently on the squad now, but how much longer do we have to wait for these quick to the majors arms.  Since when does a team spend 10+ top 5 picks on relievers and then develop them as if they were high school arms...one year at A-, one year at A+, one year at AA, and now some are in Rochester...this is getting old   #dejavu  

Yup, the drafting college RP early seems to have failed BIG TIME. My worry is that for the most part, many of those main decision makers still exist within the org.

[jud6312]

 

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am getting real sick of waiting for these young bullpen arms.  We spent the better part of 3-4 drafts drafting college bullpen arms.  One of them is currently on the squad now, but how much longer do we have to wait for these quick to the majors arms.  Since when does a team spend 10+ top 5 picks on relievers and then develop them as if they were high school arms...one year at A-, one year at A+, one year at AA, and now some are in Rochester...this is getting old   #dejavu  

Injuries.

 

Burdi coming off injury- plagued year, Reed injured, Cederoth injured, Jay injured, Chargois injured.

 

I'm hoping that if/once Burdi shows he can stay healthy, the track will be a fast one. I do, however, wish they'd move a little faster with Melotakis.

[yarnivek1972]

I don't know if a move to the pen will help Gibson or not.

 

However... make it more of a two way street please.

 

How about flipping some bullpen guys into starters. Yeah... I know... they are in the bullpen for a reason... haven't been stretched out... I know. All I can say is... it's been done before and the consideration isn't completely without merit.

 

We can't keep shoving our failed starters into the pen without replacing the starters.

 

Starting Depth is critically low.

 

The Twins will need to consider Duffey and maybe even Rogers for the rotation at some point this year.

Rogers has shown zero ability to retire right handed batters. Even in the minors. In 2015, his last full season in the minors, he posted a .400 OPS vs lefties and .830 vs righties. That would lead me to believe he lacks a pitch in his repertoire to do so. Teams would simply stack their lineups against him and take batting practice. Rogers is a reliever. More accurately, he's a loogy currently miscast as a lefty set up man.

[Head 1st into 1st]

 

Injuries.

 

Burdi coming off injury- plagued year, Reed injured, Cederoth injured, Jay injured, Chargois injured.

 

I'm hoping that if/once Burdi shows he can stay healthy, the track will be a fast one. I do, however, wish they'd move a little faster with Melotakis.

Which is one reason why drafting college relievers is so risky.  There is a reason those guys are college pen material.  Sure, all pitchers are prone to elbow/shoulder injuries #tinstapp  but relievers usually have flaws in delivery or max effort to achieve higher mph's on that fastball.

 

You named off 5 guys I once salivated over (as did Keith Law when he traveled to Elizabethton 3-4 years ago).  Who would have thought that after drafting all those relievers with 95+ heaters, the most successful and the guy who looks like her is here to stay is Tyler Duffey.  He wasn't even the best reliever on his college team.  I feel bad for the dudes who have to bat against that heater.  And, Duffey looks like his fastball command is very sketchy this year.  He misses the strike zone and the glove so hard I hear "Just a bit outside" when he pitches (in my head of course).  

 

Hopefully the new regime, in their first draft, stays away from these reliever types as they have not been fast to the majors and have almost all missed whole seasons with injuries and surgeries.