Bollinger: Chargois working with Perkins on slider

[Seth Stohs]

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/216729810/twins-chargois-changes-grip-of-slider/

 

Rhett Bollinger wrote that JT Chargois is working on his slider grip with Glen Perkins and Neil Allen. 

 

The really interesting thing about the article is that the major league baseballs and minor league baseballs are different. I think most of us knew that, but this described how that can affect a pitcher. 

 

Frankly, it almost doesn't seem right that the ball (a pretty important part of the game) is different between the top levels. Could that explain why so many (most) pitchers struggle with the jump from the minors to the big leagues?

 

Anyway, Chargois is a huge key to the future of the Twins bullpen. Glen Perkins was one of the best in the game for a 4-5 year period in large part due to his slider. It's good to see the veteran working with the youngen. 

[iTwins]

I agree - it's puzzling that the ball varies between leagues. I'd be great if MLB would focus on cleaning up stuff like that, instead of worrying about shaving 1 minute off of a game with a new pace of play rule... 

 

Hopefully Chargois can pick up Perkins' tricks to a nasty slider. I already feel like Chargois is the "closer in waiting" - just imagine if he could duplicate the voodoo of Perkins' slider! 

[gunnarthor]

Klaw mentioned that a bit last year re: Berrios.  He thought that some pitchers were having real trouble with the different ball.  I'm not sure why MLB lets this happen, it's stupid and seems to be easily fixable.  

 

In any event, best of luck to Chargois who seems like he could be a big help to the pen once he figures out how to pitch in the majors.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

The really interesting thing about the article is that the major league baseballs and minor league baseballs are different. I think most of us knew that, but this described how that can affect a pitcher. 

 

Here is an additional trivia piece on this.  The specifications of both balls are exactly the same and made by the same company.  The difference is on procured material, machinery, and manufacturing practices between the places they are made; Costa Rica for the MLB balls and China for the MiLB balls.

 

MiLB seams are definitely higher, so someone can really put a fingernail on them to help a slider/curve.

[Squirrel]

 

Klaw mentioned that a bit last year re: Berrios.  He thought that some pitchers were having real trouble with the different ball.  I'm not sure why MLB lets this happen, it's stupid and seems to be easily fixable.  

 

In any event, best of luck to Chargois who seems like he could be a big help to the pen once he figures out how to pitch in the majors.

Yeah ... it wasn't just Berrios ... but he mentioned that that was an issue pretty much with all the pitchers coming up.

 

But back Chargois ... hoping he can make the ball adjustments and pick up the help Perkins is giving him. I'm excited to see where he's at this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he replaces Kintzler at some point this year.

[Halsey Hall]

Another difference in the balls;  the spring training balls are a lot cheaper than the game balls and even have practice stamped in ink on the sweet spots. I went over the fence the first day they broke out these balls and picked up 5 and threw 2 back as they were beat up after 15 minutes. The shagger between the fences brought one back and showed me a 2 inch slash completely thru the leather.

 

I'd guess all teams try to cut down on expenses in practice. Tommy Watkins even crosses the road to get the balls that go into the school parking lot.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Here is an additional trivia piece on this. The specifications of both balls are exactly the same and made by the same company. The difference is on procured material, machinery, and manufacturing practices between the places they are made; Costa Rica for the MLB balls and China for the MiLB balls.

 

MiLB seams are definitely higher, so someone can really put a fingernail on them to help a slider/curve.

this is common to manufacturing and the difference between leagues is most likely capacity at the plants. The worst outcome would be to get that variance in the same league.

[Doomtints]

The Twins really gotta stop announcing to the world when their pitchers are working on a new pitch. Make the other team's scouts do their work, don't just hand info over to them.

 

The less info pitchers share with the world regarding mechanics, pitches, whatever, the better off the team will be.  

[Thrylos]

 

The Twins really gotta stop announcing to the world when their pitchers are working on a new pitch. Make the other team's scouts do their work, don't just hand info over to them.

 

The less info pitchers share with the world regarding mechanics, pitches, whatever, the better off the team will be.  

 

This is not a new pitch, it's a new grip.  

 

I disagree.  A "new pitch" plays with the batter's head who has not seen it and potentially anticipating something weird...

[Doomtints]

 

This is not a new pitch, it's a new grip.  

 

I disagree.  A "new pitch" plays with the batter's head who has not seen it and potentially anticipating something weird...

 

I wouldn't talk about new grips either. Let the opposition work for every piece of knowledge they can get.

Basically it should be: I'm the effing pitcher and it's your job to figure me out. I might try a brand new pitch on you today, deal with it. I might show a different grip today, figure it out. My release point is suddenly different? Boo hoo for you for not knowing this was coming.

 

Nothing aggravates me more than when I see a Twins pitcher announcing that his new success is due to a change, and then outlining that change. Usually what happens next is that pitcher quickly goes back to sucking.
 

Hitters and pitchers should keep their lips tightly sealed about their approaches. It's fine to share with coaches and teammates, but not the press.

 

How many ace pitchers talk about how they pitch? How many MVP hitters talk about how they hit? The number zero is pretty darn close in both cases. In both cases the hitters and pitchers are CONSTANTLY changing, trying to stay one step ahead of the opposition. If you announce your changes, you may as well never change.

[diehardtwinsfan]

MLB can print money, and they skimp by using cheaper balls???  I didn't know this, but I really have to wonder just how much money they are saving. I can kind of see it with practice balls, but I'd think you'd want minor leaguers using the exact same balls as the major leaguers.  How much are they saving?  $1000 per team?  Just seems silly.

[Thrylos]

 

MLB can print money, and they skimp by using cheaper balls???  I didn't know this, but I really have to wonder just how much money they are saving. I can kind of see it with practice balls, but I'd think you'd want minor leaguers using the exact same balls as the major leaguers.  How much are they saving?  $1000 per team?  Just seems silly.

 

I think that capacity with the MLB ball factory output in Costa Rica an limited supply of material is the issue here, thus the manufacturing of the MiLB balls in China.  Specs are the same.

[theBOMisthebomb]

I think that capacity with the MLB ball factory output in Costa Rica an limited supply of material is the issue here, thus the manufacturing of the MiLB balls in China.  Specs are the same.

Bring those jobs back to the USA and make America and baseball great again!

[Doomtints]

 

MLB can print money, and they skimp by using cheaper balls???  I didn't know this, but I really have to wonder just how much money they are saving. I can kind of see it with practice balls, but I'd think you'd want minor leaguers using the exact same balls as the major leaguers.  How much are they saving?  $1000 per team?  Just seems silly.

 

Each minor league is probably responsible for buying their own balls. Some of the leagues probably don't skimp.

 

If the leagues the Twins participate in use different balls, the Twins could fix the problem if they felt it was important.

[drjim]

Chargois will be the closer by the end of the year. Bully on him.

[twinsnorth49]

I wouldn't talk about new grips either. Let the opposition work for every piece of knowledge they can get.

 

Basically it should be: I'm the effing pitcher and it's your job to figure me out. I might try a brand new pitch on you today, deal with it. I might show a different grip today, figure it out. My release point is suddenly different? Boo hoo for you for not knowing this was coming.

 

Nothing aggravates me more than when I see a Twins pitcher announcing that his new success is due to a change, and then outlining that change. Usually what happens next is that pitcher quickly goes back to sucking.

 

Hitters and pitchers should keep their lips tightly sealed about their approaches. It's fine to share with coaches and teammates, but not the press.

 

How many ace pitchers talk about how they pitch? How many MVP hitters talk about how they hit? The number zero is pretty darn close in both cases. In both cases the hitters and pitchers are CONSTANTLY changing, trying to stay one step ahead of the opposition. If you announce your changes, you may as well never change.

Methinks you're overreacting just a little. I've heard lots of hitters talk about their changes in approach, they don't suddenly turn into a pumpkin. Same for pitchers, you learn a new grip and talk about it and this somehow magically allows the hitter to figure out how to identify it and when you're going to throw it?

 

Hey, I learned how to throw a 100mph fastball......good luck!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think that capacity with the MLB ball factory output in Costa Rica an limited supply of material is the issue here, thus the manufacturing of the MiLB balls in China. Specs are the same.

bingo, with the cost of freight, I gotta think China is slightly more expensive, or at least very close in cost to Costa Rica.

[Doomtints]

 

I've heard lots of hitters talk about their changes in approach, they don't suddenly turn into a pumpkin. S

 

Who?

[twinsnorth49]

 

Who?

Brian Dozier.

 

Are we really going to do this? I can name plenty

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's not as if opposing teams don't have film on pitchers. They'll figure out a guy is throwing a new pitch approximately 1.5 seconds after he does it the second time anyway, may as well get some publicity out of it and help stoke spring training fever in the team's fanbase. Stuff like this is good fodder for journalists and getting people ramped up for baseball again.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Each minor league is probably responsible for buying their own balls. Some of the leagues probably don't skimp.

 

If the leagues the Twins participate in use different balls, the Twins could fix the problem if they felt it was important.

the home team buys the balls, but I would assume MLB league office manages the contract. My assumption is it's one contract with one company and at some point the ball usage became so great that the ball company came to the MLB and said

 

"look we are running out of capacity at plant A and need to build a new plant in a second location. Because of natural variance there's going to be a difference in the balls. MLB uses the most balls of any league, and probably close to as many as several leagues combined. We think we can build a plant to support MLB alone from one plant and minors from the other. Does that work for MLB?"

 

While I wish the transition period was double a to triple a, to give pitchers a place to work with the new ball before the bigs, it's not earth shattering, nor is it some kind of competence type issue.

[Doomtints]

 

Brian Dozier.

 

Are we really going to do this? I can name plenty

 

Yes, I would love to know what Dozier said that was specific.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's not as if opposing teams don't have film on pitchers. They'll figure out a guy is throwing a new pitch approximately 1.5 seconds after he does it the second time anyway, may as well get some publicity out of it and help stoke spring training fever in the team's fanbase. Stuff like this is good fodder for journalists and getting people ramped up for baseball again.

 

This. 100% this. Secrets in sports has to be one of the sillier things on the planet, imo.

[Doomtints]

 

It's not as if opposing teams don't have film on pitchers. They'll figure out a guy is throwing a new pitch approximately 1.5 seconds after he does it the second time anyway, may as well get some publicity out of it and help stoke spring training fever in the team's fanbase. Stuff like this is good fodder for journalists and getting people ramped up for baseball again.

 

This is exactly what I just said. Make opposing teams look at film. Make them send out scouts. Don't do their work for them. Make them "figure it out" while playing them if they don't bother doing their homework.

Saying that sports teams and players don't have strategies that they hold close to their chests is flat out wrong. The best players don't announce to the opposition what they plan to do.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Yes, I would love to know what Dozier said that was specific.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/176003374/brian-dozier-emerging-from-early-season-slump/

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brian-doziers-path-out-of-the-slump/

 

There's more, but you can find the rest.

[Doomtints]

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/176003374/brian-dozier-emerging-from-early-season-slump/

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brian-doziers-path-out-of-the-slump/

 

There's more, but you can find the rest.

 

Do you think that Dozier figuring out he was standing in the wrong place has anything to do with what I'm talking about?

[twinsnorth49]

 

Do you think that Dozier figuring out he was standing in the wrong place has anything to do with what I'm talking about?

Well that was expected, goal posts moved. I have no idea what you're on about, but it's not worth my time.

 

Carry on. 

 

 

 

 

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy30/FishytheFish/Headshake.gif

[Doomtints]

 

Well that was expected, goal posts moved. I have no idea what you're on about, but it's not worth my time.

 

Carry on. 

 

I haven't moved anything. Fixing a problem like, "Wow, I didn't even notice I wasn't standing in the batter's box" isn't at all what I was ever talking about.  

You simply took a narrow view of what I stated and chose to dig in your heels rather than comprehend what I was actually saying.  

[twinsnorth49]

 

I haven't moved anything. Fixing a problem like, "Wow, I didn't even notice I wasn't standing in the batter's box" isn't at all what I was ever talking about.  

You simply took a narrow view of what I stated and chose to dig in your heels rather than comprehend what I was actually saying.  

Read the articles again and try to understand them, or just carry on insisting you're right as usual.

 

 Both of them say much more than that and there are others as well, including a lengthy article done in Twins Daily by Parker about Dozier's change in approach a couple years back.

 

Hitter's talk about changes in approach regularly and so do pitchers. If you can't be bothered to read any of them, that's on you, it doesn't mean they don't exist. 

[BrianTrottier]

 

Who?

 

Here's Josh Donaldson talking about his approach with quite a bit of detail: