Passan: Dodgers Nearing Deal for Forsythe

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Why stop at Alvarez? Why not throw Bellinger into the deal while we're at it?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

The one thing I haven't read on this (or other threads) is what you guys and gals think this does for F/L when negotiating with other teams.  There's going to be a set of GM's that probably think DeLeon (plus something, what is anybody's guess) should have gotten a deal done.  Others probably don't value DeLeon+ as much.  But 28 other teams saw a perfect fit drag on for months.  No matter which side of the DeLeon/Dozier trade you come out on I have to think some GM's will wonder whether they are going to be able to get a deal done with the Twins with a gun against the head like at the trading deadline.  "And if so, why waste my time with the Twins?"  Just something to think about.

 

Personally, I was hoping Friedman would have needed to step away for a couple weeks and name Dave Stewart as his interim GM....

[DodgerFan1234]

Morosi writing a post-script says Twins asked for JDL, Alvarez, Calhoun. To be completely accurate Morosi doesn't say that the first two pieces were agreed upon and Calhoun being the 3rd. He also doesn't give a time reference to that request. This neither enforces nor refutes the rumors swirled on these pages. Just what Morosi heard after the fact and I share it with you. From DodgerLand, I think that offer is rediculous. Dodgers got a player as good as Dozier by wRC+ for 1/3 that asking price.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Morosi writing a post-script says Twins asked for JDL, Alvarez, Calhoun. To be completely accurate Morosi doesn't say that the first two pieces were agreed upon and Calhoun being the 3rd. He also doesn't give a time reference to that request. This neither enforces nor refutes the rumors swirled on these pages. Just what Morosi heard after the fact and I share it with you. From DodgerLand, I think that offer is rediculous. Dodgers got a player as good as Dozier by wRC+ for 1/3 that asking price.

That's too much, but as an opening offer, there is nothing really wrong with it. Particularly if the Dodgers initiated talks, which is more likely than not.

[mickeymental]

throughout this episode i couldn't help thinking of the smart-alecky sign that appears in cheeky dive bars: free beer tomorrow.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Morosi writing a post-script says Twins asked for JDL, Alvarez, Calhoun. To be completely accurate Morosi doesn't say that the first two pieces were agreed upon and Calhoun being the 3rd. He also doesn't give a time reference to that request. This neither enforces nor refutes the rumors swirled on these pages. Just what Morosi heard after the fact and I share it with you. From DodgerLand, I think that offer is rediculous. Dodgers got a player as good as Dozier by wRC+ for 1/3 that asking price.

 

Well, I know this much, there are plenty of people that will completely ignore this report.

 

I wonder where in the negotiations that happened.  If true, Dave could be right and Calhoun was the sticking point.  And if that's true......ugh.

 

I hope we get more post-negotiations leaks on this, just to try and build a clearer picture.

 

[gunnarthor]

 

That's too much, but as an opening offer, there is nothing really wrong with it. Particularly if the Dodgers initiated talks, which is more likely than not.

Yeah, I could see something like that and the Dodgers replied with just De Leon. Twins drop one of Calhoun/Alvarez, Dodgers add 'something', neither team moves off that new position.  Frankly, that would square with most national reports that we heard.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yeah, I could see something like that and the Dodgers replied with just De Leon. Twins drop one of Calhoun/Alvarez, Dodgers add 'something', neither team moves off that new position.  Frankly, that would square with most national reports that we heard.  

 

If that's true, wouldn't you be acknowledging the Twins passed on an offer you'd accept?  (DeLeon + Alvarez or DeLeon + Calhoun + something)

 

I wonder...Morosi is pretty plugged into the Dodgers, is this the Dodgers finally leaking something of these talks? 

[gunnarthor]

 

If that's true, wouldn't you be acknowledging the Twins passed on an offer you'd accept?  (DeLeon + Alvarez or DeLeon + Calhoun + something)

 

I wonder...Morosi is pretty plugged into the Dodgers, is this the Dodgers finally leaking something of these talks? 

No, if true, the Dodgers only offered De Leon and "something", not Alvarez or Calhoun.  And that's in line with most reports we've seen.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

No, if true, the Dodgers only offered De Leon and "something", not Alvarez or Calhoun.  And that's in line with most reports we've seen.  

 

If they dropped one of Alvarez and Calhoun (your words)....wouldn't the negotiations still be involving two of them?  Or are you suggesting both teams were hard headed?

 

This all seems to line up with what Dave was saying by the way.  I know that doesn't jive with what you want to believe, but Morosi's report lends credence to it.

 

It certainly indicates, if you want to believe the "junk" reporting, that there were two sides being unreasonable in this.

[gunnarthor]

 

If they dropped one of Alvarez and Calhoun (your words)....wouldn't the negotiations still be involving two of them?  Or are you suggesting both teams were hard headed?

 

This all seems to line up with what Dave was saying by the way.  I know that doesn't jive with what you want to believe, but Morosi's report lends credence to it.

 

It certainly indicates, if you want to believe the "junk" reporting, that there were two sides being unreasonable in this.

I'm not sure how we're getting crossed up but we clearly are.  

Twins: Hey, we want Deleon, Alvarez and Calhoun.

Dodgers: Great. We'll give you De Leon.

Twins: (counter offer) OK, just give us two of De Leon, Alvarez and Calhoun.

Dodgers: No. But we'll give you De Leon + "something."  

And neither side agreed.  For the Twins, that meant they turned down a best deal of De Leon + something that wasn't Calhoun or Alvarez.  Some, including me, have characterized that as junk.  Nothing Morosi tweeted really changes that.  The Twins (probably early on) asked for a very high return while the Dodgers weren't set on giving up any elite prospects.  And that would correspond to much of the national reporting that said that the Dodgers weren't going to offer Alvarez.

[TheLeviathan]

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm guessing as the Dodgers hear more and more slanted press on this we'll see more of the sort of thing Morosi put out there.  Namely, that the Twins were being unreasonable too.  That's what Dave's source says and now Morosi at least confirms that at some point in the negotiations it was true.

 

I don't think history will look kindly on your spin here.

[gunnarthor]

 

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm guessing as the Dodgers hear more and more slanted press on this we'll see more of the sort of thing Morosi put out there.  Namely, that the Twins were being unreasonable too.  That's what Dave's source says and now Morosi at least confirms that at some point in the negotiations it was true.

 

I don't think history will look kindly on your spin here.

What spin?  All credible reports have indicated that the Dodgers never included Alvarez (among others).  Heyman reported that the Dodgers were being "stingy."  Twin City scribes suggested a 1:1 deal or a 1:1 deal in essence (meaning the other pieces weren't highly valued).  Most media characterized the Dodgers' offer as De Leon or De Leon and junk.  Considering what they paid for Forsythe, that seems accurate.  

 

I suspect the Dodgers have moved on.  If they wanted to control the press they would have done it before they acquired Forsythe - esp if Alvarez was offered. Leaking the Alvarez thing to only Dave on Twins Daily was probably not the best idea they've had.

[TheLeviathan]

 

What spin?  All credible reports have indicated that the Dodgers never included Alvarez (among others).  Heyman reported that the Dodgers were being "stingy."  Twin City scribes suggested a 1:1 deal or a 1:1 deal in essence (meaning the other pieces weren't highly valued).  Most media characterized the Dodgers' offer as De Leon or De Leon and junk.  Considering what they paid for Forsythe, that seems accurate.  

 

I suspect the Dodgers have moved on.  If they wanted to control the press they would have done it before they acquired Forsythe - esp if Alvarez was offered. Leaking the Alvarez thing to only Dave on Twins Daily was probably not the best idea they've had.

 

You are definitely spinning Morosi's tweet to fit your narrative.  

 

I look at it like this - Now we have a credible report throwing some shade on all the other reports.  Reports largely derived from Twin Cities reports mind you. (This would be the first Dodgers-centric one we've seen)  And, on top of that, it actually gives Dave's source some more credibility.   If the Dodgers choose not to move on and spill more beans about it, I'm going to guess your narrative is going to look less and less cohesive.  Just my vibe.  (And i hope the Dodgers keep leaking.  I want to know more about what went down)

[gunnarthor]

Here's the tweet

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how that suggests anything we didn't already know.

 

The Twins asked for the #33, #49 and #82 prospects at one point.  It's probably an early ask but if you want to think it was our last demand, I suppose you can.  I agree with the other poster that it was probably an early ask to help set the price that the Twins had in mind.  And, as I've stated before, that price is probably two top 100 guys plus two more prospects.  Three top 100 and no lottery tickets isn't too far above what I think the Twins thought his fair value was.

 

Considering what the Dodgers paid for Forsythe, it's probably pretty clear that the Dodgers had a much smaller view of Dozier's value.

 

I'm also not sure why you seem to think that the MPLS media is reporting falsely but one Morosi tweet is credible reporting.  Especially when it's just a tweet and probably what Morosi was told from someone in the Dodgers' organization.  But I suppose it helps your narrative to think so ...

[TheLeviathan]

Actually, early reports had us ask for DeLeon and Bellinger. So Morosi might be reporting subsequent negotiations, which would further agree with Dave.

 

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle rather than believing a narrative completely driven by our media as yours does.

[gunnarthor]

I hadn't realized Steve Adams and Heyman were "our media." But, again, whatever. We all agree that the Dodgers didn't offer enough for Dozier.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I hadn't realized Steve Adams and Heyman were "our media." But, again, whatever. We all agree that the Dodgers didn't offer enough for Dozier.

 

I don't agree about that, because I don't know what the Dodgers offered.  And neither do you.

 

I hope the Dodgers keep leaking.

[jimmer]

 

I don't agree about that, because I don't know what the Dodgers offered.  And neither do you.

 

I hope the Dodgers keep leaking.

agree on all points.

[DodgerFan1234]

Here's the tweet

 

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/826463712718495747

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how that suggests anything we didn't already know.

 

The Twins asked for the #33, #49 and #82 prospects at one point. It's probably an early ask but if you want to think it was our last demand, I suppose you can. I agree with the other poster that it was probably an early ask to help set the price that the Twins had in mind. And, as I've stated before, that price is probably two top 100 guys plus two more prospects. Three top 100 and no lottery tickets isn't too far above what I think the Twins thought his fair value was.

 

Considering what the Dodgers paid for Forsythe, it's probably pretty clear that the Dodgers had a much smaller view of Dozier's value.

 

I'm also not sure why you seem to think that the MPLS media is reporting falsely but one Morosi tweet is credible reporting. Especially when it's just a tweet and probably what Morosi was told from someone in the Dodgers' organization. But I suppose it helps your narrative to think so ...

Assuming Dave's source accurate, that the Dodgers had already agreed to give up prospects 33 & 49, was not getting prospect 82 really worth passing up on two top-50 prospects? I guess I'm at a loss on that one. I like Willie Calhoun's bat a lot (hate his glove a lot) but I would not let him get in the way of the other two if I was the Twins.

[jimmer]

 

Assuming Dave's source accurate, that the Dodgers had already agreed to give up prospects 33 & 49, was not getting prospect 82 really worth passing up on two top-50 prospects? I guess I'm at a loss on that one. I like Willie Calhoun's bat a lot (hate his glove a lot) but I would not let him get in the way of the other two if I was the Twins.

Neither would I

[DaveW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/826463712718495747

 

Told ya

[DaveW]

Actually, early reports had us ask for DeLeon and Bellinger. So Morosi might be reporting subsequent negotiations, which would further agree with Dave.

 

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle rather than believing a narrative completely driven by our media as yours does.

FWIW I was never told Calhoun specifically was offered or asked for, but it certainly aligns with what my source was saying (Twins wanted a good third player, Dodgers didn't want to give up a "good" third player and preferred AAAA type)

 

Me, personally? I would have taken Alvarez+JDL+1 day pass at Statfreak101 baseball academy....then again what do I know? I'm not working for the worst org in baseball (record wise) the last 5 overall years

[DaveW]

What spin? All credible reports have indicated that the Dodgers never included Alvarez (among others). Heyman reported that the Dodgers were being "stingy." Twin City scribes suggested a 1:1 deal or a 1:1 deal in essence (meaning the other pieces weren't highly valued). Most media characterized the Dodgers' offer as De Leon or De Leon and junk. Considering what they paid for Forsythe, that seems accurate.

 

I suspect the Dodgers have moved on. If they wanted to control the press they would have done it before they acquired Forsythe - esp if Alvarez was offered. Leaking the Alvarez thing to only Dave on Twins Daily was probably not the best idea they've had.

Fwiw I never said which org my source is in, could have been LAD or the Twins. I'm not a reporter/blogger/anything media related though so I wouldn't try to pull any "spin" on anything nor would I care to.

 

Three owners/mods here know for sure which side my source was on, but I request that they keep our convos confidential.

[TyTY23]

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/826463712718495747

Told ya

I think you are reading morosi's tweet the wrong way Dave, lol. Morosi mentions that Twins asked for Alvarez but were obviously rejected. Wanting and agreeing to are two different things. You adamantly said the Dodgers agreed to Alvarez as part of the deal, which obviously did not happen. Also, before you take your victory lap you also had this deal done during the winter meetings, which was obviously wrong too. 

[DaveW]

I think you are reading morose's tweet the wrong way Dave, lol. Morosi mentions that Twins asked for Alvarez but were obviously rejected. Wanteing and agreeing to are to different things. You adamantly said the Dodgers agreed to Alvarez as part of the deal, which obviously did not happen. Also, before you take your victory lap you also had this deal done during the winter meetings, which was obviously wrong too.

I still maintain through my source that JDL+Alv were agreed to, people can disagree which is fine. But I think the breaking point came when the Twins wanted Calhoun as well (instead of a much much lesser piece for the 3rd player)

 

The debate is fun though

[darin617]

 

Well, I know this much, there are plenty of people that will completely ignore this report.

 

I wonder where in the negotiations that happened.  If true, Dave could be right and Calhoun was the sticking point.  And if that's true......ugh.

 

I hope we get more post-negotiations leaks on this, just to try and build a clearer picture.

 

I highly doubt we will get anything more than what we got today.

 

To be honest, did we ever hear what the Twins turned down for NYY & Boston in the Santana trade talks? There were a ton of great names rumored and would have loved to hear what was Boston's best offer they had on the table.

[DaveW]

 

I highly doubt we will get anything more than what we got today.

 

True which is why we should all go by the following advice

[darin617]

 

If that's true, wouldn't you be acknowledging the Twins passed on an offer you'd accept?  (DeLeon + Alvarez or DeLeon + Calhoun + something)

 

I wonder...Morosi is pretty plugged into the Dodgers, is this the Dodgers finally leaking something of these talks? 

 

If he is plugged into the Dodgers wouldn't anything he puts out be making the Twins look like greedy pigs? I can't see them saying that they did agree on JDL & Alvarez but the Twins demand for a greater 3rd piece could not be met.

 

Kind of like when someone you know gets fired from work for whatever reason and he says he quit. You will never hear the truth.

[TheLeviathan]

If he is plugged into the Dodgers wouldn't anything he puts out be making the Twins look like greedy pigs? I can't see them saying that they did agree on JDL & Alvarez but the Twins demand for a greater 3rd piece could not be met.

 

Kind of like when someone you know gets fired from work for whatever reason and he says he quit. You will never hear the truth.

You may well be right, but there are two sides to every story and I think one side has been much more active leaking their side. We may never know, but Morosi is the first time something less flattering about the Twins has come out and I think that's important to note.